[vorbis] ReplayGain support for Vorbis

[Moritz Grimm]

Wilson wrote:
> Before I begin, I'd like to point out that I understand your points. I just
> want to make my perspective clear, in case anyone would like to hear the
> other side of the story.

OK, and I agree that there's use for replaygain in Ogg FLAC. No need for
me to discourage it, I only wanted to point out that one global
replaygain for all possible streams in an Ogg file is counterproductive.
Please keep it separate.

> You can pick up a 120GB hard drive now for the price of a single tire. I
> call that affordable.

Hm, buying tires every now and then is also not affordabable for me. ;)

> This is straying from the point. My argument is "assume that space is cheap,
> as in, no longer a scarce commodity." Assume that you've already managed to
> store those "more useful things", and you STILL have enough space left to
> store all your CDs as either FLAC or Ogg Vorbis.

I have about 103 GB, distributed on 3 computers at my disposal. With all
the OSes (I need multiple on all but one computer), the ripped CDs,
samples for making music, the archived songs I made myself, applications
and the need for temporary space of ~5GB per song during its way to a
final master, I am permanently running out of space ... so it's still
precious for me. Diskspace, no matter how large, is always finite and
scarce for quite some people. Imagine those working with video and/or 3D
graphics and animations. Every saved byte is worth $$$.

> Vorbis does not fail on any other audio sample, though. Are you suggesting
> that no one can tell the difference between ogg q9 and FLAC? I know I can't
> right now with my current equipment, but that's not the idea.

Its the same with alien life - the propability that it exists is there,
but it's very low. Unless we both start training out ears for a living
from now on, I am pretty confident that neither you nor me will ever be
able to ABX Ogg at q9 (with music), no matter what equipment we use. Not
unless some really evil bug is found, and that too is not very likely.

> that whisper is probably louder than any Ogg artifact. I'm not really this
> picky in "real life", I'm just trying to prepare for the future. I HATE
> re-ripping 350 CDs again and again.

Aeheh.. :D Yeah, how about you rip your CDs to FLAC now and encode to
Ogg later when you're confident enough? Anyways, you know best what your
needs are. If you have suggestions to make Ogg suit your needs, those
are very appreciated. One just has to make sure that those needs don't
conflict with others, i.e. what solution would be needed to have both.

> I still don't understand why we couldn't store the ReplayGain data in the
> metadata stream, and thus have independent support for normalization of
> however many audio streams we have in the Ogg container. Can you think of a
> reason why this wouldn't work?

This would work if every stream gets its own replaygain value. If I can
extract a (maybe also peeled down) Vorbis stream from such an Ogg file,
together with the correct replaygain value from the metadata stream, I'd
be happy.

I don't know how the developers imagine all this, e.g. what is possible
in the first place. Maybe this is a good time now to wait for facts.

<p>Moritz

P.S.: I noticed that my previous mail reached the list twice. Having
sent it only once, I can only say "sorry", shouldn't be happening at all
;P


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