[vorbis] make lo-fi sound as good as RealAudio?

[gtgbr at gmx.net]

Derek at CD Baby wrote:
> > > oggenc -M 32 -q -1.0 --downmix YourSong.wav
> > > oggenc -M 28 -q -1.0 --downmix YourSong.wav
> > [equal results]
> > No, because -M will be ignored without --managed. When using --managed,
> Hm. Nope! Try it.
> I just tested with and without " --managed" in the command line, and it was the same exact output (down to the byte).

Wow ... well, one never ceases to learn. So this behavior has actually
changed ... :) oggenc/libvorbis even picks -b 24.5 with your example,
not -b <something_else> anymore. Are you using current CVS code? I'm
almost sure that this was still different with the 1.0 release (I'm
using -current myself, so I can't check this easily right now).

Well, great, things have become more easy then. :)

> The two tests were:
> oggenc -M 28 --downmix --resample 32000
> oggenc -M 28 managed --downmix --resample 32000
> Same output.

I assume that's a typo, it should be --managed.

> > you also want to use -b instead of -q. Using -b is always a good idea,
> > as the encoder would assume the default of -b 112 (for 44.1kHz/stereo
> > output, this is just an example) without it. This means it thinks it can
> > use many bits, but ends up hammered down by the -M parameter, which
> > results in bad quality.
> Thank you!  Interesting!  Different reason, though: smaller file, same sound, when adding " -b 32" to it.

oggenc's behavior has obviously changed, and now it ignores -b settings
that don't make any sense (like, -b bigger than -M). This is nice and
good to know.

> NOTE: try encoding some modern country music, like pop-country stuff.  Ohmygod!  I'm not a big fan of it, but it's got more treble than anything else I tested.  Good for revealing that high end dither.

I would if I could ... I don't have that kinda music, except for your
Kasey Chambers clip ;) Anyways, I know what you mean. Note that this
Chambers tune has clipping in it - I wonder if that bad mastering is
common with pop-country. :-/ Vorbis is not tolerant towards such things
and punishes clipping.

<p>Moritz
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