[vorbis] ReplayGain support for Vorbis

[Wilson]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Moritz Grimm" <gtgbr at gmx.net>
To: <vorbis at xiph.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 11:29 AM
Subject: Re: [vorbis] ReplayGain support for Vorbis

<p>> Wilson wrote:
> > > Actually, I like it the way it is - replaygain, no matter how
absolutely
> > > great it is :D, makes only sense in Vorbis streams.
>
> > Allow me to disagree. Disk space is so cheap now that I store my top 100
> > favorite CDs in lossless form, and only use lossy compression on the
other
> > mass of disks. It would be extremely nice to be able to use Ogg FLAC for
> > this with ReplayGain, instead of using (potentially lossy) normalization
> > tricks on the front end.
>
> Ummm... but the point in lossless coding is having the original back
> after decoding it. Any alteration to that audio makes no sense to me.
> Why don't you use Ogg at -q8 or higher instead (or mp+ --insane, if you
> wish)? I really doubt that this is too little quality, even for a Top
> 100 collection of CDs. The advantage in terms of filesize can't be left
> out, no matter how "cheap" an 80GB HDD is nowadays. IIRC (2nd hand info
> from a mail to the list) some really audiophile audio engineer was more
> or less satisfied with Ogg > -q8 or -q9, so ... using FLAC for casual
> listening really makes no sense.

I'm talking about 160GB hard drives here. A single one can hold almost 400
CDs in FLAC format.
q9 Oggs are coming right up there on FLAC bitrates, so why not take the
extra step and remove any possible ugly results? (udial.wav, even though
it's not exactly a fair test, is an example.) With lossless compression, you
can be certain that you won't "suddenly" start hearing an artifact when you
upgrade your equipment. I'm sure q9 Ogg is good enough, but given the minor
incremental cost of moving up to FLAC, it's an option I would like to have.
Also, AFAIU, you can return to the "original" file with the ReplayGain
system. Seems like a good fit with a lossless codec.

>
> Anyways, if enough people insist on replaygain w/ Ogg FLAC, please have
> two seperate replaygains for Vorbis and FLAC, for heavens sake. Having
> multiple, non-identical tracks within an .ogg file would make replaygain
> useless for both Vorbis and FLAC then (you can't use it at all because
> either the Vorbis or the FLAC stream would get messed up by it,
> respectively).
>

I'm having trouble thinking of a use for an Ogg file that has a Vorbis AND a
FLAC stream. Help me out here?

<p><p>--- >8 ----
List archives:  http://www.xiph.org/archives/
Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/
To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request at xiph.org'
containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body.  No subject is needed.
Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.