[vorbis] How to make Vorbis popular

[rob1 at rekl.yi.org]

> So you're complaining about the version number being < 1.0? That seems
> silly.

Having a version number < 1.0 implies to me (and I think the general
population) that this software is not ready for public use.  If it was
ready for public use, then it would be called 1.0.  Unless the version
numbering precendent is different for this software.  When Jim-Bob sees a
"released" version, he'll be more confident in using it than a
"still-in-development" version.  He doesn't read this mail list;  he
doesn't care that some part of the suite is "completed" (decoder);  he
just sees that the "vorbis" encoder/decoder suite is "still in
development", which he's not interested in using because he's not a
developer.

> True, but Vorbis is not suffering from never-ending feature-creep. The
> developers have a specific set of goals, which I don't think has changed
> significantly in some time. They want 1.0 to meet all these goals so
> that when it comes out, there will be a very compelling argument that it
> really is better than MP3 (higher quality, more flexible, support for a
> wider range of sources, multiple-channel support, etc.).

Sure, I believe that it will be better than MP3 when it comes out.
However, the original topic was something like "How can we get more people
to use vorbis".  My basic belief is that people are less likely to use
something which is "in development" because of their fear that it will
either not work right or something significant will change when it is
"released", which will require them to, in this case, re-encode all of
their songs.  If they choose to not upgrade to the "released" version, and
their buddy get the released version or some commercial product is based
on the "released" version, suddenly all of their already-encoded files are
not sharable/usable outside of their environment.  Plus, they can't use
anything their buddy gives them which was encoded with the "released"
version.

I'm not saying this is reality in the case of vorbis, but this is their
perception.  Sure, you can change their perception, but it may take a
while.

<p><p>On Fri, 11 Jan 2002, Craig Dickson wrote:

> rob1 at rekl.yi.org wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 11 Jan 2002, Victoria E. Lease wrote:
> >
> > > Do mp3 users do this same thing, re: LAME? I think LAME is still
> > > making encoding quality improvements (albeit not as drastically in
> > > the past), and I know people who are using it to encode all of their
> > > music in this "mp3" file format for which an optimal encoder has
> > > yet to be produced... ;)
> >
> > Huh?  It's good that LAME is still making encoding quality improvements.
> > And it's -released- software.
>
> So you're complaining about the version number being < 1.0? That seems
> silly.
>
> > If you want to talk about other software which is changed after it's
> > released, let's talk about..  well, let's talk about every software
> > program out there.  That's what I was talking about in my last post:
> > "released" does not mean "completely finished, never making another change
> > again."  The nature of software (and most products) is that when it's
> > released, it's usable.  It may not be optimal or all-encompassing, but for
> > that major version, you can count on the interface/format being
> > consistent, the user can adequately use the product for it intened
> > purpose, etc.
>
> You can count on that for Vorbis now too. The file format is frozen, and
> has been for several months (since at least beta 2, I think, if not
> earlier). The decoder, aside from fixes for any bugs that may be found
> before the 1.0 release, is done. All they're doing now is tuning.
>
> > Understanding the time-to-market vs. the perfect product argument is
> > important, and not too difficult.  Most companies who strive to put out
> > the "perfect product" don't exist long because their competitors have
> > released something that, while it may not be defect-free or as fast, is
> > making money.  They can then revise and improve their product, so the next
> > release is better/faster/etc.  If you never get your product out the door,
> > you lose market share and everything that goes along with it.
>
> True, but Vorbis is not suffering from never-ending feature-creep. The
> developers have a specific set of goals, which I don't think has changed
> significantly in some time. They want 1.0 to meet all these goals so
> that when it comes out, there will be a very compelling argument that it
> really is better than MP3 (higher quality, more flexible, support for a
> wider range of sources, multiple-channel support, etc.).
>
> There is room for debate about whether they should have just called RC1,
> RC2, or RC3 "1.0" and promised better tuning for 1.1 or 2.0. Nobody
> really knows the answer to that, since you can't run a complete
> simulation of the world twice to find out what tactics produce the best
> result (defining best result as the closest approximation to total world
> domination, of course). The developers are sticking to their plan, and I
> think they will get the product out when it's ready. Probably in the
> next few months, I would guess.
>
> I think your analogy to commercial product development ("Most companies
> who strive...", etc.) is inapt. Profit-seeking corporations have a lot
> of pressure on them to generate income because they have investors who
> want to see results, and they spend lots of money on plush offices and
> glitzy marketing campaigns. These pressures don't really exist for a
> non-profit "because we love it" operation like Xiphophorous.
>
> As for market share, the history of personal computers has a number of
> examples of established products suddenly dying because something better
> came along. Nobody uses .ARC compressed archives anymore, and in fact I
> think that's the most exact analogy from history that one could draw.
> The arc utility was free for personal use, and very popular. Then pkarc
> came along, and the company behind arc started talking about lawsuits,
> so pkarc was rewritten as pkzip, and it was clearly better. Within
> months, arc was history.
>
> Craig
>

<p><p><p>--- >8 ----
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