Re(2): [vorbis-dev] Mime Type and Ogg (More)

[Ralph Giles]

On 15 Oct 2000, Maciej Stachowiak wrote:

> I don't really know the details of the discussion, but I'd like to
> present this issue from a user-oriented perspective, and from the
> perspective of how Nautilus wants to use data files.

Thanks for your well argued perspective! It's nice to see rhetoric isn't
entirely dead. :-)

> You could argue that ogg apps should be universal and handle all types
> of ogg data. But when it comes to multimedia, it's pretty clear that
> users _don't_ want to use the same application for video and audio,
> regardless of the underlying data stream format. I think very few
> people use xanim to play MPEG audio, and equally few people use xmms
> to play MPEG video, despite the fact that the underlying data format
> is fundamentally the same. And indeed, we see distinct mime types for
> audio/mpag and video/mpeg, and distinct file extensions.

Given our differing assumptions, your argument hinges here. I completely
agree that users prefer separate applications for audio and video, but had
usually put cause and effect in the other order. The interfaces on video
players seem uniformly clunky--perhaps because of the direct visual 
relation to the content, perhaps because of lazy programmers. Certainly
the complexity of a VCR remote doesn't translate nearly as well a cd
player's control panel.

12cm optical disks were chosen for DVD to leverage shared functionality
with CDs, and perhaps to enjoy a familiar physical format. And yet, we
sell them in very different cases to avoid consumer confusion because
they'll not work in cd drives or so people will pay more.

Can you argue from a usability (as opposed to popularity) standpoint that
there are significant benifits to audio-only specialization?

 [...]
> So in conclusion, let's not let the fact that ogg is an amazingly
> flexible file format lead us astray. In the end, files have to be
> identifiable in ways that are semantically meaningful to the user,
> because higher level applications will have to know how to help the
> user use those files with the most appropriate application.

I may well be arguing from the program's point of view. Jack is supporting
your point when he says things like "ogg123 will probably continue to play
only audio streams." But it does seem to me that mime has a poor 
conceptualization of container formats, so the distinction isn't as
clear-cut as you suggest. What's the mime-type for .tar.gz? Is that a
'special case' in nautilus?

Not to say we demand representation on par with tar! :-)

Curious,
 -ralph

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