[vorbis-dev] Mime Type and Ogg (More)

[David Mitchell]

Ralph Giles wrote:
> 
> On 15 Oct 2000, Maciej Stachowiak wrote:
> 
> > I don't really know the details of the discussion, but I'd like to
> > present this issue from a user-oriented perspective, and from the
> > perspective of how Nautilus wants to use data files.
> 
> Thanks for your well argued perspective! It's nice to see rhetoric isn't
> entirely dead. :-)
> 
> > You could argue that ogg apps should be universal and handle all types
> > of ogg data. But when it comes to multimedia, it's pretty clear that
> > users _don't_ want to use the same application for video and audio,
> > regardless of the underlying data stream format. I think very few
> > people use xanim to play MPEG audio, and equally few people use xmms
> > to play MPEG video, despite the fact that the underlying data format
> > is fundamentally the same. And indeed, we see distinct mime types for
> > audio/mpag and video/mpeg, and distinct file extensions.
> 
> Given our differing assumptions, your argument hinges here. I completely
> agree that users prefer separate applications for audio and video, but had
> usually put cause and effect in the other order. The interfaces on video
> players seem uniformly clunky--perhaps because of the direct visual
> relation to the content, perhaps because of lazy programmers. Certainly
> the complexity of a VCR remote doesn't translate nearly as well a cd
> player's control panel.
> 
> 12cm optical disks were chosen for DVD to leverage shared functionality
> with CDs, and perhaps to enjoy a familiar physical format. And yet, we
> sell them in very different cases to avoid consumer confusion because
> they'll not work in cd drives or so people will pay more.
> 
> Can you argue from a usability (as opposed to popularity) standpoint that
> there are significant benifits to audio-only specialization?

I would turn this around and ask if there are any significant
benefits to generalizing audio-only and video players. Audio-only
files really are different from video files, at least from a
users point of view. A common feature of MP3 players is shuffle.
Is this likely to ever be used in a video player? On the same
note, it's nice if your video player will let you display a
single frame, or fast forward and rewind by a single frame. Not
to mention grabbing screen shots. Would you ever do any of these
with an audio-only file?

I would argue that to a user, there is a world of difference
between their audio files, and their video files. They are used
for different things in different settings. The fact that they
might use a common underlying container or stream format is not
important to the user. It's a technical implementation detail
that should be hidden from the user in most cases. It doesn't
make any more sense to lump together all Ogg container files than
it does to lump together all ASCII text files. Do we argue that
your email, .c, .html, and .txt files should all use the same
MIME type because they are all implemented in ASCII? Of course
not. MIME is being used to provide file typing for the user.
Users treat audio files differently from video files. The MIME
typing should reflect that fact.

Going back to your DVD vs. CD comparison. Most DVD players will
play CD's, and some people have gotten rid of their CD players
because of that. But does that mean that there is no longer a
need for CD-only players?

As a user of a heavily MIME typed OS (BeOS), my opinion is that
we should have an audio MIME type, and a video MIME type. The
creator of a file should have some way of tagging it to indicate
what they consider to be the "primary" use of the file. Can an
Ogg video player play an audio-only file? Sure. And if a user
wants to use the same player for both, they can easily set their
system up that way. But I don't think we should force them to do
that. Going back to the BeOS, by default it uses the same
application for both audio and video files. And that app works
OK. But, there are lots of third party audio players which
provide more functionality (such as playlists). With MPEG files,
I can easily configure my system to use the built in player for
video files, and whatever player I want for MP3 files. I don't
want to lose that functionality when I start using Ogg files.

-David Mitchell

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