[icecast] OT: OGG in the mainstream

gtgbr at gmx.net gtgbr at gmx.net
Mon Jul 14 23:26:55 UTC 2003

Mark Casey wrote:
> I think when the real-time cbr encoding issues are sorted Vorbis (this is my
> experience with oddcast dsp, winamp and icecast 2 win32, big cpu hog) will

The bitrate management engine takes lots of power, that's true - but
it's still faster than lame with --alt-preset (imo the only way to make
good MP3s). In any case, a source client should be well-equipped ... you
don't want the stream to drop out just because the box can't do, e.g., a
necessary maintenance task and re-encode fast enough at the same time. A
600 MHz box is pretty much the minimum for reliable streaming - my
k6-3/400 gateway can stream Vorbis VBR at ~80-85% CPU load, but even the
daily maintenance makes it crap out for a short while. If you're serious
about streaming, get a faster box (I'm not, just doing it for fun and
friends every now and then.)

> How long it takes to reach mainstream, I have no idea.. When perhaps the
> majority of hardware players support OGG Vorbis playback and stuff like
> Shoutcast supports Vorbis, then it will probably happen. (lets face facts,

My guess is that Shoutcast gets Ogg Vorbis support when hell freezes
over. Icecast2, as stable and functional as it is already, will probably
be the first and only server to support Vorbis, when it's done. It will
do, i.e. already does, a very good job at that, too. But as long as
Xiph.org herself doesn't get Icecast2 out of the door as a release,
competitors of any kind won't care much. However, I don't mind that very
much, as Xiph's philosophy of "we release when it's done" has proven to
be very good.

It's not that much about mainstream player support (IMHO we already have
that almost sufficiently), it's about the "critical mass" of people who
are "brave" enough to stream Vorbis with Icecast2. It's like a bunch of
sheep that are scared of something. Get a few 'important' sheep to do it
and all others will follow. ;) Once people learn that cool companies
like Virgin Radio don't become poor because of streaming Vorbis, they'll
be less reluctant. After that, users will take the offer and not even
complain about it.

Make an example, stream Vorbis. It's as easy as that.

> the majority of small broadcasters are ignorant of icecast and like all
> human beings are innately lazy, therefore they'll stick with shoutcast.. So
> until shoutcast and its dsp supports vorbis they'll be broadcasting in mp3
> only)

>From my point of view, that's their problem not mine. :) I don't listen
to MP3 streams, I find them mostly awful. It's really exhausting to
listen to them... maybe because my ears/brain have to do too much work
to reassemble the sound back to music. (I'm serious, it gets worse the
more tired I am. :/)

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