[Vorbis] Can't access www.xiph.org from Japan
c.bouev at red.fr
Mon Sep 26 00:53:01 PDT 2005
May I suggest you to personalize the error page (with usefull information,
like in those mails...) so that the visitors be friendly informed ?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Harrington" <webkid at webkid.com>
To: <vorbis at xiph.org>
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 7:25 AM
Subject: Re: [Vorbis] Can't access www.xiph.org from Japan
> As much as I can agree about frivolous arguments, I personally don't
> think this is "silly". Quite a number of people are quick to assume that
> something is "broken" simply because it doesn't work for them. As much
> as I'm pleased to see that he went to the effort to find a solution, the
> [correct] solution is not in the server.
> His suggested approach is a deviation from standards that are designed
> to make the internet a predictable and well-defined place to operate.
> When we deviate from the standards, we solve one problem, and cause two
> more. Now, web browsers that are designed or configured to request only
> a specific language will now receive a different, wrong language.
> After that, you could configure the server to ignore HTTP/1.1 requests
> from browsers that don't properly implement the protocol. Oh, hey, we
> already do that.
> Well, while we're at it, why not put up websites that generate badly
> formed HTML and CSS to conform to a proprietary browser's shortcomings?
> Look at that, now we've created an entire internet that only works with
> one browser. An entire internet that is as broken as the client side is.
> And now the line between "the website is broken" and "this alternative
> browser is broken" blurs for every uneducated computer user that comes
> The standards exist for a reason. Don't tell me Stallman would accept
> this kind departure from well-formed, well-defined semantics and
> protocols. Ignoring the standards is tantamount to ignoring the browser
> bugs that created this whole problem in the first place.
> Is it so much to expect that a user looking at English web pages can
> configure their browser to do so? In Firefox, it's seven clicks:
> Edit -> Preferences -> General -> Languages -> (language dropdown) ->
> English -> Add
> (That's assuming General isn't already selected)
> In IE, it's even simpler.
> The original poster pointed out that the server told him his browser
> didn't accept any of the languages the server had to offer. There is no
> "mystery" there; obviously, something about the browser needs to change
> so that the server will respond correctly. It's reasonable to assume
> that the "Language" option in your browser exists for that very reason.
> Sure, I'm a zealot. But you can't tell me that you wouldn't react the
> same way if someone suggested using MP3 instead of Vorbis on a site,
> just to cater to one user. ("It wouldn't break any current
> implementations, everyone can play an MP3! Plus, it's easy to implement.
> Just compress using one different command.")
> -Chris Harrington
> Aaron Whitehouse wrote:
> > Let us not be silly about this.
> > The original post identified the problem and suggested an
> > easy-to-implement solution which would fix it and not offend the
> > correctly configured browsers. There is so much concern about making the
> > Xiph codecs as accepted as possible and yet people want to make a stand
> > at a user's first point of contact. I would not stop people who tied
> > their shoelaces incorrectly from shopping at my store, regardless of
> > whether I wanted to encourage correct shoe-tieing. I think that the
> > original post was very responsible, it pointed to a guide to remedy the
> > problem and quite rightly pointed out that those who have an incorrectly
> > configured browser would not be able to view the site. The fact that
> > they can fix their browser is irrelevant to the fact that, as there is
> > an easy remedy, it is worth Xiph catering to those who have the browser
> > incorrectly set up as well.
> > If you are concerned about people setting up their browsers incorrectly,
> > feel free to set up a website about its evils, but if Richard Stallman
> > can put his ideologies aside (re:licensing) in order to make these
> > codecs widely accepted, I think that you probably could as well.
> > Aaron
> > Christopher Harrington wrote:
> Vorbis mailing list
> Vorbis at xiph.org
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