[Vorbis] .ogg extension and Theora

[noprivacy at earthlink.net]

From: "Stephen So" <s.so at griffith.edu.au>

> With regards to using *.ogg for everything (audio, video, or both), new
> tools for detecting the content of ogg files is definitely needed for
> Windows.  This is probably a trivial task as ogginfo probably can report

It's not a "Windows" problem.  (From what I gather from some of the Linux
users in here, it has the problem too.  And probably the Mac as well.)

The same problem effects the web.  Anytime you see a .ogg file on the web or
a ftp site, or a p2p program, you still wont automatically know what kind it
is.  All of those apps would have to be updated as well, just to satisfy the
desires of Xiph.org

Considering the internet can't even agree on using ipv6, or on running
patched up to date servers, or firewalls, or close their SMTP ports, etc.
etc., I think it's pretty close to zero that everybody is going to install
.ogg handlers for their web based programs.  And for the OS and all their
applications.


Xiph just made a mistake releasing Vorbis with the .ogg extension oh so long
before releasing anything else to go into that container.  In nearly
everybody's mind (users and developers), .ogg means vorbis audio, and
nothing else.  Not even other codecs such as speex.

They didn't bother making clear that it should be able to handle other types
of data.  Even a vorbis audio decoder should be able to handle text (song
lyrics etc.), multiple pictures (album art) etc.  (This is actually a good
argument for trying to talk everybody into using a new .oga audio extension.
It could be designed from the beginning to handle things like that.  But I
don't think it'd be easy to talk users into changing.)

Trying to patch it by requring OS and app handlers to be written to try and
sort out the types is a kludge.

> clicking on each file would start the appropriate player.   Basically
> what I am saying is we should *ditch Windows explorer* and have our own
> "Ogg explorer" (hey, that's another name to try :) ) which will open the

I'm sure you can talk Microsoft into adding that to XP, WinMe, Win98, etc.
etc....

> If we make Ogg Explorer downloadable (and supported) by Xiph.Org, and

Most users aren't going to want to install a large program just so they can
play a media file.  A codec is one thing.  A larger file explorer is a
little bit different.

Then you have to deal with all the bugs in the program.  (There will be.)
And maintain it.  Forever.

And you have to accept the performance penalty involved in opening each and
every .ogg file to see what it really is.  That involves not only quickly
opening it and reading the header, but reading enough of the file to make
sure that there isn't video or such at the very end.

And you have to deal with bugs in it.  Which might cause it to crash or lock
up, or just get very slow when it reads a damaged .ogg file.  (Like how XP
does with damaged .avi files.)

This is not an elegant solution.


The idea of a generic container is a little attractive, but there are a lot
of problems involved.  And Xiph didn't address any of them back when they
would have been easier to solve.

> boast about it its efficiency in organising your ogg files via content,
> then I'm sure the average user will want to give it a try (when they

I wouldn't.  I doubt the 'average' user would either.

My 'organizing by content' of media files usually involves moving video
files to a seperate directory from my music files.   I think most people do
about that and little else.