[vorbis] Re: Ogg Vorbis tracks in QT files

[Christian HJ Wiesner]

D Richard Felker III wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 13, 2003 at 07:26:21PM +0000, Mark Hills wrote:
>>>I tried to bind the 'OggS' 4CC to the vorbis codec in mov.c, but it 
>>>doesn't seem to like it... anyway, in QuickTime AFAIK the vorbis track
>>>is embeded in an Ogg container... so we have those alternatives:
>>The example you give from Cinerlerra is the only time I've ever seen
>>Vorbis audio as a track in a .mov file. And if it's already put in an Ogg
>>container, then I'd argue that that's not really the right way to go about
>>things.
> 
> Cinelerra is total broken crap. This is NOT the proper way to put
> vorbis audio in a movie. Instead, you should just put a raw vorbis
> stream there for audio, no ogg nonsense. The ogg container format is
> horrible enough by itself without trying to put it inside yet another
> ugly container (quicktime).
> 
>>The Ogg container provides sync and seeking to a set of packets,
>>regardless of codec. I'm not familiar with .mov files, but presumably they
>>provide similar features. You can encode and decode Vorbis audio without
>>any need for the Ogg container if you're that way inclined. So I don't see
>>why there's any need for Ogg to be involved in this case. Unless anyone
>>could explain otherwise.
>  
> Because the author is a stupid and lame. Same reason why none of his
> software compiles right from source... Speaking of which, he doesn't
> understand the GPL since he makes you click a stupid "AGREE" thing
> before downloading source.
> 
>>On a separate note, what do people think of the idea of using the Ogg
>>container to store Vorbis audio and some kind of libavcodec supported
>>video format? Whether the xiph.org crew would approve until they get their
>>Tarkin codec going, and whether MPlayer support or otherwise would follow
>>is anyone's guess, but it seems like a reasonable idea. Thoughts?
> 
> It's been done and it works, but it's not good. The ogg container is
> just a horrible design. Read all the mplayer-dev-eng archives
> regarding "new container format"/MPCF for lots of discussion on the
> matter. Soon the draft for our new spec will be complete and then we
> can store (wonderful) vorbis audio without the (crappy) ogg container,
> as standalone audio files or in movie files.
> Rich

Felker, whats your problem ? I can normally smell a wanker if i meet
one, even in the internet. I have no idea why my sensors were failing on
you in first instance, probably because you are hiding your stupid and
immatured insulting behind technical argumentation. In the end you're
nothing but a poor, socially handicapped person, unable for normal
communication and hiding behind the anonymity of the internet. Somebody 
pay this guy a psychologist, he needs one desperately.

You feel this mailing list is your 'private area' and you can insult
people and their work here at will ? Well, this ML has a public archive
accessible via HTTP, and everybody can subscribe to it and read your
comments, so this thinking is complete BS.

Core developer or not, i fail to understand how the other developers of
both the FFMPEG and the mplayer projects can tolerate your behaviour.
You are throwing mud on the projects you are contributing to when
behaving like this, and that means their work is put into the dirt and 
miscredited also.

I am copying this email to the Vorbis user list, and i sincerely hope
some brave Xiph zealot people living in the States succeeds to find out 
your real life adress and has a word with you about the very necessary
respect for Monty's work. We also had our doubts if Ogg is a good
container design for video handling, thats why we started our project, 
but we will wait until Monty will present the final Ogg Theora specs 
before we make any comments, and for sure we would not even think of 
using a similar language as you are doing constantly. Its unfair to 
judge Ogg's capabilities from OGM, as this project admittedly was a 
quick hack IMHO, made from a 'stupid DirectShow kiddie' , to use your 
very own words, and thus very Windows centric.

Its a pitty i wont be in the States before April, i really loved to be
together with some Xiph people when they are talking to you, 
contributing some good old, handmade Bavarian arguments. You should 
learn, and hopefully soon, that it can be painful to insult other people 
and their work .... in a real life !!!!

no regards

Christian

<p><p>P.S. Explanation for Xiph people : He has been doing the very same with 
  other projects on the mplayer-dev-eng ML, and repeatedly, most notably 
without even having understood the basics of the specs in most cases. 
Sorry for the ranting on a public mailing list, but enough is enough.

P.P.S. And please, dont swob their new MPCF ( MPlayer Container Format ) 
with our old MCF project, they have nothing in common and its mere 
coincidence that both sound similar.

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