[vorbis] Why the commotion about file extensions?

[Tom Felker]

On Tuesday 15 July 2003 5:34 pm, noprivacy at earthlink.net wrote:

> To paraphrase the old radio show... "What evil lurks in the hearts of
> programs?  Only the Shadow knows!"

That's certainly true.  And don't forget how screwed up Windows file handling 
is in itself.  For example, there is a hack whereby you can put a \0 in a 
filename, and nothing but DOS can delete it.  How does this crap happen?  How 
can \0 go in a string?  Only Bill knows.  I'll take Linux any day.

While I'm ragging on Microsoft:
<http://flash.to/oe-quotefix/>

> You'd also have to test quite a few programs, including players, etc.

I still don't think any non-audio programs will do anything untoward with long 
extensions.  As for audio programs, at least now, it's a small change to add 
new extensions.  Like, Winamp may need to make sure .vorbis files get sent 
through the vorbis plugin.

> But would they *care* that it's a "Theora" file rather than a "OGT" file?
> Does it matter?

I think so.  TLA's really don't make good names.  I don't mind them much for 
myself, but it's not really the way people (non-techies) think.

> They'd probably do the same kind of thing that they've been doing with all
> the AVI codecs used in the P2P places... ask in some forum or just download
> some big codec pack.
>
> The average casual user who is given the file will try to play it, and
> probably give up, without looking for any codec at all.

I think with longer, pronouncable extensions, the chance is just a little bit 
higher that someone won't give up.

> 8.3 may be, but TLEs aren't.  And they aren't going away any time soon just
> because one or two people dislike them.

No, when 8.3 was abolished, programmers understood that they can't depend on 
exactly one period within 4 chars from the end, any more than they can 
allocate 12-char buffers for filenames.  The only reason people still use 
TLEs is habit and compatibility.  I really, really don't want to do something 
stupid because of broken programs which may or may not exist.

> > My preference has changed (again!), and I'm thinking Theora+Vorbis files
> > should be called .theora, because any video player does audio also.
> >
> > How about:
> >
> > .ogg: Ogg Vorbis or Ogg Flac
> > .vorbis: Ogg Vorbis
> > .flac: Ogg Flac or Flac
> > .speex, .theora, etc.: themselves
>
> I think those are all decent.  Except for the fact the extensions are too
> long....[grin]
>
> You might want to allow / suggest alternative TLE's, such as .VOR, .SPX,
> .THR (or something)

That's reasonable.

> I've got no problem with it being associated with audio players, but why
> phase it out?
>
> People are already starting to remember it and think of it as audio.
> Changing that is going to be like introducing a new format to them.

Well, it'll still be audio.  When they see their first .vorbis file, so what 
if they think it's a new format?  They'll be plesantly surprised to learn 
that it works with all their old players.  (First we'd have to ensure this to 
be true.)

> Although "ogg" is the file container, the reality is that most people think
> of "ogg" as *being* audio.  Not Vorbis (which most people have probably
> never heard of.)  So why bother phasing it out?  Why not just let that
> continue to be the offical audio extension.

The problem is that now, both Vorbis and Flac (and Speex?) use .ogg.  I think 
it's useful to know the codec from the extension.  Just because Flac and 
Vorbis are both audio doesn't mean they're the same.  (Like, I may delete 
.vorbis files iff I have the corresponding .flac files.)  By trying to move 
both Vorbis and Flac away from .ogg, instead of just Flac, or neither, the 
number of ambiguous files will decrease more quickly.

.ogg - Ogg Vorbis, Ogg Flac, or Ogg Speex
.vorbis, .vor - Ogg Vorbis
.flac, .flc - Ogg Flac (or plain Flac)
.speex, .spx - Ogg Speex
.ogm - Anything with video
.theora, .thr - Ogg Theora with Ogg Vorbis
.avi - DivX + Vorbis


-- 
Tom Felker

If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of exclusive 
property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea.

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