[vorbis] APPLAUD.WAV problems

[Bostjan]

<<<<<<<<
----- Original Message -----
From: "Monty" <xiphmont at xiph.org>
To: <vorbis at xiph.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2002 9:42 PM
Subject: Re: [vorbis] APPLAUD.WAV problems

You will always be able to find a sample at a compromize quality
setting like -q4 (bitrate like 128) that sounds relatively worse than
others.  It isn't necessarily the right decision to hurt quality in
100 samples to improve one.
>>>>>>>

You are right and the latest ff123's tests confitm it :))

<<<<<<<<
You assume erroneously that Gian Carlo is not a member of the project
or that we don't talk to him.  Gian Carlo's tuning results are also
folded into every new release.
>>>>>>>>

Sorry. I thought so because his RC2 tuned encoders sounded in a completely
different way compared to RC3.

<<<<<<<<
rc4 will allow user selection of stereo mode, which eliminates the
need to argue.
>>>>>>>>

Thank you. I think it is a good thing to have this option.

<<<<<<<
We're talking about perceptual compression and everyone perceives
differently.  The only changes we can really consider are ones that
are a net benefit when considering all users and all samples.  We
can't tune applaud.wav to the exclusion of all else.  I know that's
not what you're suggesting, it's just something to keep in mind.
>>>>>>>

I completely agree.

But I see two different ways to solve the APPLAUD.WAV issue:
1. improve quality at the same bitrate by changing encoding agorithm
2. to increase the bitrate on problematic samples (e.g. APPLAUD.WAV)

No.1 (lossless stereo coupling on problematic packets) is probably more
difficult and can potentially deteriorate quality on other samples (as you
suggested).
No.2 is probably the easier way to go now and - MOST IMPORTANTLY -
doesn't harm other samples.

I believe everybody would be glad to see the encoder produce higher bitrates
on APPLAUD.WAV-like-cases rather than producing noise. Do you agree?

Regards,
Bostjan

<p>--- >8 ----
List archives:  http://www.xiph.org/archives/
Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/
To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request at xiph.org'
containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body.  No subject is needed.
Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.