[vorbis] Where's the tool to do .ogg bitrate "peeling"?

[Tom Wadzinski]

> The files themselves support peeling, the tools do not.

> Tools for peeling existing oggs are slated for post 1.0, if I recall.

Ok, so there aren't peeling tools, due to feature prioritization, but
are there at least any reference examples of the peeling process in
action?  For instance, has anyone "manually" peeled a file, so to speak,
and been able to examine the quality of, say, a ~192 kbps encoded wav
peeled to an 80 kbps file compared to the same wav encoded to 80kbps?
Or is the basic technology behind peeling an RC3 file (or any version
which is peelable) just not yet fleshed out, such that even reference
peeled files aren't yet possible?  

I see peeling as an incredible plus for the format, but only if it works
well.  I believe that demonstrating the peeling by releasing example
peeled files would be a good help towards more rapid user acceptance.
If people know that the wavs that they encode today will for sure be
able to be peeled, and that the expectation for quality of peeled files
is x, then they might be more inclined to switch over to vorbis now as
opposed to post 1.0.  The problem is that there is no well known
expectation of peeled quality, as far as I know.

Also, I vaguely recall a post that suggested that current RC3 files can
be peeled, but that there is much "peelable file creation optimization"
that can be done in the encoder to improve on the resulting peeled file
quality.  Am I crazy, or is that the case?  Even if I am off about that,
I still think that the proof is in the pudding, and reference peeled
files would be a good thing towards user acceptance, if such a thing is
possible without unreasonable effort.  

Tom Wadzinski

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