[vorbis] Multichannel files

[Mercier, Dave]

I think multi-channel is one area where Ogg could really find a niche for
itself. The reasons:

1) 5.1 Music is becoming more popular. There are DTS 5.1 audio discs in use
now. There isn't really a way to stick these into a convenient playback form
that I'm aware of though.

2) I'm not aware of a widely available MP3 encoder that supports a 5.1
configuration. There are extensions to the MP3 format that allow 5.1, but
I've never seen them used anywhere for the average person (I think European
DVD's use 5.1 MP3 or something perhaps). 

3) It seems formats like Dolby Digital and DTS are not being pushed onto
consumers very hard. Show me where I can get a DD or DTS encoder to encode
my files. I'm not so sure you will see this pushed on to people either.

4) I really have no idea if formats like WMA and others support 5.1. But I
can't think of any of these as being too friendly to the average person this
way either.

5) It's really easy to add 5.1 support to an Ogg encoder, and it will be
available widely.

6) On the PC writing or extending a player to handle 5.1 audio would be
pretty easy, if a sound card supports it (e.g. something like an SB Live
5.1). 

7) There was talk earlier of why a PS1/PS2 could or couldn't handle Vorbis
playback as an entertainment device. I've been thinking about this a lot
lately, and I think this would be excellent. A PS2 player could be written
that plays Vorbis files. This player could also do real-time DTS or Dolby
Digital encoding. So if a user plays a 5.1 format Vorbis file, the PS2
switches into DTS output mode, decodes the Vorbis into 5.1, and then
re-encodes it into DTS 5.1 and sends it out the optical. The re-encoding may
introduce a bit of artifact, but not likely if done right. You then get the
benefit of a digital connection to your 5.1 setup. I know I use my PS2 a lot
to play CD's, just because it has a digital connection. But Sony's CD player
is a horrible thing and I hate changing CD's every 45 minutes. I'd really
like to copy 15 or 20 albums onto a CD and let it rip through a good Vorbis
player (of course it could play MP3's, etc., as well). I'd really like to
start a project like this myself, but I fear two problems 1) Sony would not
approve such a player, since it allows the possibility of playing pirated
music (hey Sony is a big music company), and 2) I'm not sure the PS2's laser
can read CD-RW discs. I think it can read CD-R's but I'm personally not a
big fan of only burning something once. Other than those logistical issues I
think the technology is pretty simple. I know I'd be willing to spend $30 on
some PS2 player software that would transform my PS2 into a wicked high
quality audio player.

Thanks,
Dave.

-----Original Message-----
From: Andreas Karlsson [mailto:a.karlsson at bredband.net]
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 12:36 PM
To: vorbis at xiph.org
Subject: RE: [vorbis] Multichannel files

Hi Myles,

Thank you for your reply. I´m indeed very serious about trying to make 
music in surround.
I find it a very intresting way to extend the expression of music. As every 
one knows,
stereo is made to make the soundscape whider and more expressive, surround 
will add
new ways to place the listner in the center and carry him/her away.
I´ve now read the threads and I´m not trying to make any technical 
suggestions. I´m just
experssing my desire to find new fronteirs.

Regards,
Andreas Karlsson
http://www.ft2.net

At 15:03 2001-11-14 -0500, you wrote:
>Hello Andreas,
>
>There was a few threads some months ago on multi-channel oggs and various
>surround formats.  I suggest you search the mailing list archives for the
>word 'ambisonics'  You should find relevant threads in that era.
>
>I have some issues with current surround sound recordings as they lack
phase
>and position information in the sound matrix.  If you are serious about
>proper surround recordings It will take some effort on the part of the
>vorbis project and current players to keep and reproduce proper
>phase/location data.
>
>Myles
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Andreas Karlsson [mailto:a.karlsson at bredband.net]
>Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 13:58
>To: vorbis at xiph.org
>Subject: [vorbis] Multichannel files
>
>
>Hi,
>
>As I´ve understood things, the Ogg Vorbis format supports more that two
>channels (stereo). Is there any tools to encode x sourcefiles into one .ogg
>file?

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