[vorbis] TAG-mess

[Jonathan Walther]

On Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 08:17:00PM +0100, Moritz Grimm wrote:
>DISCID
>        since the EIN, ISBN, etc numbers aren't to be reliably found
>        on the CD, nor is the catalog number reliable, the FREEDB
>        index hash should go here
>
>That's metadata and definitely NOT human readable. This should not go
>into the tags.

I wish you had read all the posts on the thread before posting this.  I
already posted that DISCID, ISRC, and similar tags are now stricken from
the standard unless someone speaks up for them.  Slothy suggested it; I
now second it.

>ARTIST
>        role fulfilled by COMPOSER, LYRICIST, PERFORMER, ENSEMBLE,
>        CONDUCTOR, AUTHOR, PRODUCER, and ARRANGER tags.
>
>You need this data neither in your playlist nor prior to downloading a
>tune.

If you had read the standard, all tags are optional.  You can even
release an ogg with no tags whatsoever.  I'm starting to feel like a
broken record here.

>If you buy an OGG file, you should get this information by the
>vendor ...

Be realistic.  Most ogg files will be shared among friends and complete
strangers on the internet.

>I don't say it's not useful, I say it's not needed. In my
>very own case, it'd even be highly annoying. Look at this, an average
>tune made by be and a friend:
>
>COMPOSER=salt & maxx
>PERFORMER=salt & maxx
>PRODUCER=salt & maxx
>PUBLISHER=salt & maxx
>ARRANGER=salt & maxx
>ENSEMBLE=KOLABORE (salt & maxx)
>TITLE=Tachyon Part #12
>ALBUM=Tachyon
>GENRE=Ambient
>COPYRIGHT=(C) 2001 by KOLABORE. All Rights Reserved.
>URL=http://www.kolabore.com/
>ISRC=DE-R46-01-00119

Which part of "all the tags are optional" don't you understand?  Oh, and
the URL should go in an ADDENDUM tag.

>All six artist-related tags are perfectly valid, and none of them can
>take another tag's meaning. But instead of these six tags, a single
>ARTIST tag would perfectly do the job.

In your case, a single ARTIST tag would do the job.  If all we ever
listened to was your little electro-midi-loop-noodling sounds, that
would be sufficient for the standard to.  But the standard is meant
to be useful and usable for everybody.

>Btw, point 2) in your mail about your goals is already fulfilled by the
>ISRC tag. Every recording has a different, unique ISRC, so it should be
>trivial to get the correct CD once you got that number.

Use of an ISRC tag goes against point 3), which is necessary for
embedded devices.  No access to the Internet or external databases
should be required!

>I really don't want these tags to become standard. The standards should
>not go beyond simple tags that are required for proper "playback", if
>one may say it that way. The whole rest needs to adapt to too many
>different possible scenarios to become a standard.

I, and many others, disagree.  No tags are required for proper playback,
ergo, by your reasoning, ogg should drop tag support altogether.  Unless
the common ogg-playing tools support them, tags are useless.  Unless
tags are standardized, the ogg-playing tools won't support them.

>> When someone sends you a file with a gibbled filename, how do you find
>> out what the heck it is?  What if you really liked it and wanted to run
>> out and buy 10 copies of it on CD for your friends you liked it so much?
>> The output should give you enough information that you can do that.
>
>I usually know the artist and the title, propably also the name of the
>album. If this isn't enough, and there's an ISRC, I'm all set.

If I gave you a file foo.ogg, how exactly are you going to find out the
artist and title unless someone has put in appropriate tags?

Jonathan

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