[vorbis] TAG-mess

[Jonathan Walther]

Perhaps you should read the thread (again?), and ask for clarification on
issues that you think the standard did not address.  As your current
email stands, it shows such lack of clue, and contains so many false and
outrageous statements that I'm afraid to reply to it.

Jonathan

On Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 02:43:04AM +0100, Moritz Grimm wrote:
>First of all, all those new tags are total overkill to be standardized.
>They're only useful for people who both tag OGG files for a living and
>listen to classical music only. Imagine what will happen when the Jazz
>fans, and the Techno fans, and the Rock fans and who knows else demands
>his very own, customized + standardized set of tags. And what about the
>various other tags one might need when OGG is not only the common
>container for Vorbis streams but also Tarkin and FLAC and MIDI and X, Y
>and not to forget Z.
>
>Then, what's the deal with 23947 standard-tags, while all the popular
>players support only the ID3 set of tags by design ... I really wonder
>where Winamp should display a tag like CONDUCTOR or whatever fancy
>classical-only stuff you want.
>
>The only point I see in those tags is to have a searchable and sortable
>index of an OGG Vorbis music base, controlled by some sophisticated
>database engine that can generate playlists, start players, whatever...
>but this all doesn't have anything to do with the OGG format.
>
>What you might want is write to the authors of tag editors and ask them
>to allow you create and save your own presets, for example. Or make it
>interactive! Let the tag editor come up with predefined questions and
>input screens! This would lead to a homogeneous tagging of your OGG
>collection, ready for a database I don't know whether it exists or not.
>In the end, it's a front-end thing and not about what's written on a
>xiph.org web page.
>
>OGG needs some few standard tags. Standard means, they're standard ...
>e.g. in players. Those are ARTIST and TITLE, for example - no matter how
>diffuse the word "artist" actually is in this context. The tags are
>optional, but theoretically you can use every single standard tag in
>every single OGG file - even the ISRC tag I requested. It is useful,
>because becoming a registrar costs nothing, and although nobody with a
>label code really needs it, everybody has it - and it shows who, in what
>country, in what year made a specific recording. (Ah, this reminds me, i
>wanted to ask the IFPI when they get problems with the 2digit-year...).
>Burning OGGs to CD-A means that the ISRC will be burnt together with the
>rest. No need to do it manually. (Heh, not that anybody would care, but
>this all is theoretical anyways.)
>
>Back to standard tags. They should be universally applicable (in
>theory), and [classic|rock|pop|techno|...] specific tags are not.
>Customize your own, that's why you can do it.
>
>I recently encoded Antonin Dvorak's 8th and 9th symphonies ... even
>"TITLE" sucks there, I agree. My titles are currently "Adagio",
>"Allegretto Grazioso - Molto Vivace", etc. That's bullshit, because
>that's "Symphony No. 8" all the time, but I had to distinguish them
>somehow. I made my choice because I want to be able to distinguish the
>parts in a playlist. So this is about what the player displays in the
>playlist ... no 293874 additional standard tags would have helped in
>this case. (Especially because I don't want to change the Winamp
>plugin's properties all the time.)
>
>All this additional information that is useful for classical music, but
>hardly anything else, should stay in the "my custom tags"-drawer. We
>could discuss this again when we have XML metadata in OGG files. Players
>supporting this XML metadate might have "browser windows" displaying the
>content in a well-formatted and customizeable way. Having some more
>things standardized at that point could be neat, but it'd be pointless
>now. IMO.

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