[vorbis] Re: FhG $15k minimum

[Tom Bishop]

INTERESTING...

But I drew a different conclusion than you.

Clearly they are going to miss some.. but I believe
they fully intend to sue known BIG violators.

It is just business..  ;-)

They think they have a shot.. and CLEARLY they will
make lots of money, and already have, on MP3 licensing.
(millions at least...)

And they are not about to go away...

Possibly their patents will be downgraded in court.. but
that will take years to decide at best..

However, their prices make other alternatives MUCH
more attractive to many people.. and possibly will allow
Ogg Vorbis (and other codecs) to claim some of the
"glory" that MP3 would have claimed if MP3 had more
reasonable license agreements.

FhG simply thinks they will make more money this way.

It remains to be seen.. and won't be decided finally for years.

Ogg Vorbis (IMHO) should get together a consortium of hardware
and software vendors who would all, jointly fund development of
a Ogg Vorbis Technologies.

The problem is, what incentive do the companies have to fund
development if you are going to give it away free, equally to all.

And I am not attempting to dessuade you from that.... ;-)

Perhaps funding companies would have more "preferential"
treatment WRT timeliness of new releases, access to developers.

Like paying to be in the Beta program.... or something.

I think companies (that could afford it) might pay reasonable
fees to such form such a consortium.. especially if you gave
member companies a 3 month head start on new releases..
(or something..)

To be really successfull Vorbis needs all of the structure that
any company does.. In fact it needs to be a company, possibly
non-profit inc., but an incorporated entity for any semblence of
survivability, but where to get the money????..

I think something like the above.

Form a non-profit corporation for the Development and
Furtherance of  Ogg Vorbis Technologies.

Fund this from membership dues from a consortium of
"Supporting Companies" who in recognition of their support,
get preferential treatment. (Early releases, developer access)

Just my opin.. The above plan would at least seem to "Help"
push Vorbis into more of the spotlight..

You would have to actually pay some business types to create
this corporation.. but it would seem to be worth it.

Am I missing something?

Regards,
Tom

----- Original Message -----
From: "Firelight Multimedia" <support at fmod.org>
To: <vorbis at xiph.org>
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 1:36 PM
Subject: Re: [vorbis] Re: FhG $15k minimum

> > On Sun, 1 Oct 2000, Matt and Karin Lawson wrote:
> >
> > > I guess it may have changed in the past few months, but at one point
> there was some kind of statement that said "all licenses have a $15k
> > > yearly minimum"
> >
> > I did see that after it was pointed out. I had assumed they weren't
> referring to radio based on the other page, but it is mentioned
> > specifically.
> >
> > > By the way, I wrote to them one time and basically (but politely :)
said
> "You guys MUST realize that these fees are way too high for any
> > > small business"  and their answer was to offer me a special deal of 2%
> with a $5k yearly minimum.  Gee, that's much better (not).
> >
> > If $15k is their idea of a small minimum, then they really don't know
much
> about their potential customer base...
> >
> > Rich
>
>
> Heh, that is interesting .. here is a discussion i had with thompson where
i
> found them unresponsive and EXTREMELY arrogant.
> Brett
> ---------------------->
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Firelight Multimedia
> To: Marianna Hamilton
> Cc: Detlev Lang (E-mail) ; Henri Linde ; Martin Sieler
> Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2000 12:53 AM
> Subject: Re: [Firelight Multimedia]
>
>
> hi marianna, thanks for replying.
> I think any royalty scheme for my clients which are usually game companies
> is out of the question, as it complicates the publisher deal, and
> considering these games can sell anywhere around 500,000 copies, giving
away
> $250,000 isnt smart business sense just to play mp3 music in the
background.
> $50k up front is just simply too expensive also.  This is definately not a
> 'small business model' as you state.  Note i mentioned EA wont even pay
this
> and they are the richest game developer in the world.
> They just want a small format to play music and sound effects with, this
is
> why ogg-vorbis is getting a lot of attention at the moment (and even WMA)
> and is something i am recommending to users, unless of course, thompson
can
> significantly reduce the cost, which i can guarantee will get you many
more
> customers.  You really have to stay competitive for a technology that is
> starting to show its age.
>
> thanks.
> Brett Paterson
> Firelight Multimedia.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Marianna Hamilton
> To: 'Firelight Multimedia'
> Cc: Detlev Lang (E-mail) ; Henri Linde ; Martin Sieler
> Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2000 12:04 AM
> Subject: [Firelight Multimedia]
>
>
> Dear Brett,
>
> In response to your last email,  I realized that I never gave you the
> numbers for the small business model I referenced.   I should also clarify
> that a licensee may choose this model if it feels their volumes better fit
> this model.  The up-front annual minimum royalty is US $5 000.00 (the
> standard minimum is US $ 15 000.00) and the per-unit royalties are doubled
> from the standard (US $1.00/decoder;  $5.00/encoder for patents-only).
> Also, there is no royalty for only distributing free software decoders
> (desktop PC software only...).      Hope this information helps.
>
> Please advise as to whether or not you still plan to develop an mp3
product
> and your progress.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Marianna
> ****************
> Marianna Hamilton, Esq.
> Thomson multimedia - mp3 Licensing
> marianna at tmmlive.com
> Tel: +1.858.485.4207
>
> Please see our website at http://www.mp3licensing.com for further details.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Firelight Multimedia [mailto:support at fmod.org]
> Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2000 4:42 PM
> To: Marianna Hamilton
> Cc: Detlev Lang (E-mail); Henri Linde (E-mail); Martin Sieler (E-mail)
> Subject: Re: [Firelight Multimedia] which category does this fall under
>
>
> Hi marianna
> I appreciate that but the number of clients who wanted to use mp3 in my
> product have said no way to 50k, and if they had willingly paid 10k each
you
> would be more in pocket and not out of pocket as is the case now..
> Electronic Arts who I work closely with is the biggest game industry
company
> in the world and work in terms of billions of dollars, and even they wont
> consider paying that much.   Royalties are also an evil word in the mass
> market software industry, and so they are looking into alternative
> compression schemes.
> I know this is abrupt, but it seems like a monopolistic pricing scheme
> (there is no realistic competition right?), and i guess im not in the know
> about the research you have done (i know market research is never an exact
> science), but it seems almost common sense that you could have the
potential
> to reach explosive growth with a revision in licensing brackets?
>
> thanks for listening,
> Brett Paterson
> Firelight Multimedia.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Marianna Hamilton
> To: 'Firelight Multimedia'
> Cc: Detlev Lang (E-mail) ; Henri Linde (E-mail) ; Martin Sieler (E-mail)
> Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2000 11:51 PM
> Subject: [Firelight Multimedia] which category does this fall under
>
>
> Brett,
>
> Both Thomson and Fraunhofer spent a lot of resources developing the
> breakthroughs for this technology and obtaining the patents on it, and it
> continues to be valuable technology for those wanting this level of sound
> quality in a compression algorithm. We continue to evaluate the market and
> licensing approaches, but these models fit best for now.
>
> <private stuff snipped>
>
> Regards,
>
> Marianna
> ****************
> Marianna Hamilton
> Thomson multimedia - mp3 Licensing
> marianna at tmmlive.com
> Tel: +1.858.485.4207
>
> Please see our website at http://www.mp3licensing.com for further details.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  <earlier thread snipped>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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