[theora-dev] Using the VP3 ENCODER in a DIRECTSHOW GRAPH wit defined quality and BANDWIDTH - HOW?

[Thomas Tomiczek]

David, inline prefixed with *** - sorry, we have Outlook XP and Exchange
server as corporate stnadard, and inserting the ">"'s is not something I
found it capable to do.

-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel B. Miller [mailto:dan at on2.com] 
Sent: Donnerstag, 22. August 2002 14:15
To: theora-dev at xiph.org
Cc: owner-theora-dev at xiph.org
Subject: RE: [theora-dev] Using the VP3 ENCODER in a DIRECTSHOW GRAPH
wit defined quality and BANDWIDTH - HOW?

<p>hi Thomas --

On Thu, 22 Aug 2002, Thomas Tomiczek wrote:

> Daniel,
>
> This is not realy convincing. Good, I could use this (not really a 
> problem), but - well - the main problem is propably that I would have 
> to rewrite this key whenever the application starts, writing back the 
> original value when the application stops. That is not really nice.

unless you modify the code, that's the only way to do it right now.

*** Lets say I will live with it and then actually propably devote
resources.

> Is there any plan to write a "real" DirectShow filter, one that
> (a) complies fully iwth the DirectShow standards, such as:
> 	(1) implementing the interface for video compressors to set
quality 
> in a "easy one number way"
> 	(2) implementing bandwidth configuration by the stupid and
ridiculous 
> way Dx has decided to use (i.e. set it on the output pin's media type)
> 	(3) implements a custom interface for the other configuration,
> in case the application is allowed to "have knowledge" of the filer
> (instead of being a generic application able to use any filter)
> 	(4) implements dialogs to configure the filter?

Right now there are no plans to build a fully DSHOW compliant
encode/decode filter.  Our main thrust at Theora is to develop an
OGG-based audio/video stream spec, not to build codecs for specific
platforms and formats.

*** Well, ok.

> I must say that I might be willing to set up a price for the inclusion

> of this functionality into DirectShow in the case that - well - the VP

> 3 codec is of at least the same quality as intel indeo (which I 
> actually and perfectly assume it will be). I do not feel too 
> comfortable using the Video Encoder that seems to be a VfW wrapper.

Neither Xiph nor On2 is in a position to pay anyone for this sort of
work. If you decide to make a contribution to our open-source
initiative, the compensation is in knowing that you will have a vibrant
community of developers who will help you improve your contribution, and
are making contributions of their own.  We encourage you to consider
developing this tool and contributing it to the Theora/VP3 codebase.

*** Our resources in this field are limited to - I would not exactly
have problems coming up with a base filter infrastructure (means that is
work for less than an hour), but I dont feel comfortable trying to
understand the codec without documentation et al. While I do a lot of
C++ development, it is pretty limited in scope - I sort of had enough
problems trying to get the codec to compile at all. If you would be able
(or if anyone in the fielf knowledgable with the working of the codec)
would be able to actually "hand hold" me when it comes to using the
codec, I would gladly handle the rest of the work, i.e. developing the
whole DirectShow encidong part.

> Just as an end note - bear with me that I just want to have a version 
> her ethat I can show:
>
> (a) can you just send me a sample of how the registry line would have 
> to look for a 90kbit video stream, 10 frames per second? And what 
> would be the full key? I will try to find out, but I try to just use 
> the filter
> :-)

Run an app that loads the codec; go into the dialog, and set the
datarate for 11 kbyte/sec.  This will save the key into the registry
with these settings.  The key is under HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE/SOFTWARE/On2
Technologies (or something very similar).

*** Name an app :-) I tried it in DirectShow, and it fails to open any
dialog.

> (b) is there any chance that an official MSM file will be released for

> filter installation? Right now I have to ways to handle this, 
> especially with the upcoming LGPL:

Note Vp3 is not released under LGPL -- check out the license at
www.theora.org -- it's released under the standard Xiph licensing terms
(Basically BDS)

*** Thanks :-) Thanks a lot - much better :-)

> 	(1) include and slave the full official installation - that is
NOT 
> really nice.
> 	(2) include the filter dll's in my own installer, explaining the

> license etc. Both are not good. I would prefer (3):
> 	(3) merge an official merge module for the filter that is
> installing (or autoamtically upgrading) the filter on it's "official
> location" etc.

Again, we have no resources to devote to this.  For now our plan is to
support the VFW and QT interfaces.  Very few applications use the MS
Filter interface for encoding video, and we cannot commit to another
codec type at this time.

*** Again, with support in handling the filter (I can ask you detailed
questions when it comes so far) by someone knowing what he does there, I
am willing to donate all the work to create a full blown directshow
filter :-) Note my ressentiments - I have some bad experience with bad
open source software in the past, and I definitly dont want to spend
weeks trying to understand the filter works itself.

Thomas
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