[Icecast] Https Meta data

Philipp Schafft phschafft at de.loewenfelsen.net
Mon Oct 25 18:07:57 UTC 2021

Good evening,

On Mon, 2021-10-25 at 19:57 +0200, HGAlt wrote:
> Hi Philipp,
> I am using MP3, but the meta data will provided by mairlist.
> Mairlist sends the stream to Icecast and it works fine http but not
> with https.
> My understanding is, that this information is not part of MP3,
> because mairlist only sends the audio data and not the MP3. The meta
> data will be send separate to Icecast. But with https VLC doesn't
> show them!

Exactly this separation is the point. That separation is what ICY is
about. MP3 does not support metadata so a side channel is needed as a

Icecast does provide this just fine if asked for it.

> Hi Marvin,
> Do you know any player that show the meta data foe https?
> Maybe VLC and Icecast should communicate directly the solve this
> problem.
> What do you think?

And again, there is nothing to do on the Icecast side. Let me make this
clear: Icecast's listener protocol handling code does not even know if
the client is connected via TLS or not.

I don't want to point here at VLC. Also keeping in mind that others
behave the same way. I just want to make clear that there is nothing we
can do on the Icecast side as there is no problem on the Icecast side.

With best regards,

> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Icecast [mailto:icecast-bounces at xiph.org] Im Auftrag von Philipp
> Schafft
> Gesendet: Montag, 25. Oktober 2021 19:34
> An: Icecast streaming server user discussions
> Betreff: Re: [Icecast] Https Meta data
> Good evening,
> On Mon, 2021-10-25 at 19:20 +0200, HGAlt wrote:
> > I have a problem with https streaming. In VLC no meta data will be
> > displayed.
> > This seems to be an known problem! If you search in the internet,
> > you
> > will find a comment from VLC, that the problem is created by
> > Icecast.
> > 
> > Is there any possibility to solve this problem?
> let me do a wild guess here: You are using MP3, or AAC.
> MP3, as well as AAC do not support metadata (unlike modern streaming
> formats) by themself. So they require the use of ICY as a transport.
> ICY is a workaround protocol by former Nullsoft that was meant only
> for letting Winamp talk with shoutcast. However Icecast has full
> emulation of that. TLS or not. To Icecast it is "all the same".
> And here is the big but:
> As Nullsoft decided that it is a "good" idea to use the "http" URI
> scheme for their protocol now players must check when the user enters
> a "http" URL if that is actually HTTP or ICY. So the player does
> magic here. And as this is dirty black magic nobody likes it.
> Therefore players have never implemented it for "https". As "https"
> always meant "https" not "icys". And for reasons of not confusing
> things even more that is very good.
> However there is also no correct scheme as there never was one
> registered. So there is no standard way of telling a player to use
> "icys". Meaning, metadata will only work if not used with a legacy
> codec.
> Some players accept URLs with "icys", "icyxs", or "xicys",... But
> that really depends on the player.
> Icecast itself (all versions!) are happy to send those metadata if a
> player asks for them. So on the Icecast side there is nothing to do.
> My suggestion is migration to e.g. Opus for streaming which is
> basically "THE" state of the art codec. With Opus metadata just
> works.
> I hope this was helpful, both for you and everyone else reading.

Philipp Schafft (CEO/Geschäftsführer) 
Telephon: +49.3535 490 17 92

Löwenfelsen UG (haftungsbeschränkt)     Registration number:
Bickinger Straße 21                     HRB 12308 CB
04916 Herzberg (Elster)                 VATIN/USt-ID:
Germany                                 DE305133015
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