[Icecast] How do I list in YP? icecast2 ices0

Ross Levis ross at stationplaylist.com
Tue Oct 3 18:13:10 PDT 2006

Hi Rob

The stream format has nothing to do with your audio files.  I probably 
have 70% MP3's and 30% Ogg Vorbis files, and 1 or 2 WAV files for 
jingles on my hard drive.  I only encode new CD's to Ogg Vorbis.

But my station is streaming in AAC+ format, and I have also streamed in 
Ogg Vorbis format simultaneously.  There is no way I would bother 
streaming in MP3 format.  It's 15+ year old technology and not designed 
for streaming at low bitrates.  It sounds like crap at anything below 
112k.  Whereas 28k AAC+ sounds pretty good in hifi stereo, and this 
bitrate means it's available to dial-up internet users.

Here is my 28k AAC+ world music stream if you are interested.  It requires
Winamp v5 or Foobar2000 or XMPlay or Screamer or VLC for Mac/Linux



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rob Campbell" <rob at rob-campbell.com>
To: <icecast at xiph.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 4:13 AM
Subject: Re: [Icecast] How do I list in YP? icecast2 ices0

I only have mp3s and it doesn't make sense to me to change all of them
to ogg.  My MDA(windows mobile phone) plays mp3s with no problem.  It
uses them as ringtones.  Its more widely used in my circles.  Why would
I and everyone else want to switch to ogg?  What is the benefit?  Why
the shun on mp3?  And I can stream at 64 and 32 which is great for those
streams that will get a lot of listeners.  This is being done on a cable
upload which isn't that impressive and not for commercial use so sound
quality isn't "needed" but I could stream higher for special friends if
I wanted.  But if all of this is and has been available with mp3; why

On Wed, 2006-10-04 at 00:03 +1300, Ross Levis wrote:
> I can understand wanting to boost the adoption of Xiph codecs, but I
> think restricting the directory to vorbis streams only will not help
> this endeavour.  I can imagine it will just piss a lot of people,
> including myself, and give Xiph a bad name.
> I get very few listeners of my AAC+ stream now since this occured.
> The restriction is not an insentive to switch to Ogg Vorbis at all.
> The incentive is to switch from Icecast to Shoutcast, which I'm still
> seriously considering, but I was waiting and hoping for this fix to be
> done so the restriction could be lifted.
> This should be bad news for Xiph but it would appear they do not
> regard usage of Icecast as an advantage to them.
> The only insentive for me and many others is sound quality.  If Xiph
> wants everyone to use vorbis for streaming then it needs to
> perform much better at lower bitrates, and some serious work needs to
> be done on the codec.  The only work we are seeing released is by
> independent developers.
> Where vorbis performs best is for file storage at higher bitrates.
> This is what I use and recommend to everyone who will listen.
> And even though it's only the YP that has the restriction, I think it
> will give Icecast a reputation of not supporting popular stream
> formats.
> It seems Xiph do not regard any of this important. and that is up to
> them, but I hope they will reconsider.
> Regards,
> Ross.
>         ----- Original Message ----- 
>         From: oddsock 
>         To: icecast at xiph.org 
>         Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 2:22 PM
>         Subject: Re: [Icecast] How do I list in YP? icecast2 ices0
>         it was fixed a long time ago actually.  The current YP is now
>         benefitting from the changes made by me (with help from Karl),
>         and yet despite the requests from both Karl and I recommending
>         that these streams be allowed again, it falls on deaf ears.
>         Ultimately it's up to Xiph to decide, although I was hoping
>         that when the objection "it performs badly so we turned off
>         all non-vorbis streams" was made, and the "performs badly"
>         part was fixed, that the decision would be made to return
>         non-vorbis streams.  Instead, I've gotten nothing but silence
>         regarding the matter. 
>         I guess what it boils down to is a fundamental concept of what
>         Icecast is.  To me, it's a simple, free, and open source
>         alternative to other non-free, free but restrictred, etc
>         streaming media servers.  Others believe, I think, that it is
>         really just a mechanism to boost the adoption of all the xiph
>         codecs.  This was evident from the very beginning when Jack
>         Moffit added support for mp3 back into icecast2 as a
>         "transition path to vorbis" for broadcasters.  I certainly do
>         understand their points on the matter, however, I do not share
>         them. 
>         oddsock
>         On 10/2/06, Ross Levis <ross at stationplaylist.com> wrote: 
>                 I thought the YP code was going to be fixed to use
>                 less resources so it
>                 could be used with other stream formats.  It seems to
>                 be taking a long
>                 time.
>                 As it is now, Icecast2 is not a good solution for
>                 those wanting to be on 
>                 a popular directory.  I am forced to recommend using
>                 Shoutcast to my
>                 clients so they can get onto a popular directory.  I
>                 would prefer to
>                 recommend Icecast2.
>                 Ross Levis.
>                 http://www.stationplaylist.com
>                 ----- Original Message -----
>                 From: "Leo Currie" <leo.currie at gmail.com>
>                 To: <rob at rob-campbell.com>
>                 Cc: <icecast at xiph.org>
>                 Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 7:08 AM
>                 Subject: Re: [Icecast] How do I list in YP? icecast2
>                 ices0
>                 The directory at Xiph.org only lists Ogg streams - MP3
>                 streams are
>                 silently ignored.
>                 Leo
>                 On 02/10/06, Rob Campbell <rob at rob-campbell.com>
>                 wrote: 
>                 > ices.conf:
>                 >     <Public>1</Public>
>                 >     <!-- The name of you stream, not the name of the
>                 song! -->
>                 >     <Name>Poohba's Urban Sounds</Name>
>                 >     <!-- Genre of your stream, be it rock or pop or
>                 whatever --> 
>                 >     <Genre>RnB</Genre>
>                 >
>                 > icecast.xml
>                 >     <directory>
>                 >         <yp-url-timeout>15</yp-url-timeout>
>                 >
>                 <yp-url>http://dir.xiph.org/cgi-bin/yp-cgi</yp-url>
>                 >     </directory>
>                 >     <directory>
>                 >         <yp-url-timeout>15</yp-url-timeout>
>                 >
>                 <yp-url>http://www.oddsock.org/cgi-bin/yp-cgi</yp-url>
>                 >     </directory>
>                 >
>                 >
>                 > When I look on the YP I don't see it there.  Not
>                 really sure what to
>                 > look for so i looked for 'poohba'.  I also did a
>                 search for all RnB 
>                 > and
>                 > found nothing of mine.
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