[Re: [icecast] icecast2 ??]

Aaron Gaudio prothonotar at tarnation.dyndns.org
Mon Dec 30 22:04:25 UTC 2002

Behold, Emmett Plant <emmettfish at mac.com> hath decreed:

> We are truly interested in doing those things. We are working on it. The
> website issues *will* be resolved soon. I would think that we'd have at
> least a little leeway in this. If this issue is really worth getting this
> worked up about, I will happily refund your license fees.


> It would be really nice if you could try a little bit of civility here. Our
> sysadmin works as a volunteer. Our webmaster works as a volunteer. The
> Icecast maintainer, surprise, a volunteer. The system that you're arguing
> about is entirely volunteer-driven, okay?
> You want an admission? Here goes. Yes, the website is completely horrible
> and needs to be updated. Yes, we could use more people to help out. Yes, if
> you step forward to help out we'll make every effort imaginable to make it
> easy for you to do so. Yes, things have gone ignored for far too long.
> But yes, we're interested in fixing it.
> Can we put down the pig vat of vitriol and discuss this as human beings,
> instead of in a screaming bitchfight? Thanks. Let me know what you need me
> to do.
> Emmett Plant
> CEO, Xiph.org Foundation

Okay okay. I don't mean to sound abrasive, I'm only taking the tone that
was taken with me. I think icecast1 is a great product, and although I
haven't used icecast2, I'm sure it will be the same, and am thankful for
the developers who have given their time to work on it. I don't know exactly
who in this discussion actually represents the project members and who
is just speaking for themselves here, so it's difficult to separate people
out into who has been naughty and who has been nice. 

In general, I think it is bad form for anyone to shrug off users (or potential
users) suggestions or criticisms with snide or dismissive remarks, unless
those people are taking an unnecessary harshness to begin with. I don't think
I did, and I'm sorry if anyone feels I did. When people keep missing the
point of what one says, it is difficult to not get a little annoyed. I don't
know whether anyone from Xiph has done this or not, since again it's hard
to keep track of who's who. When someone basically suggests that certain
users don't matter, their concerns are bunk, and their value non-existant,
I think they are not only wrong, but harmful to the project and community.

That's the approach that some people in the thread have seemly taken. Whether
it be out of malice, poor communication skills, or simply weariness, I don't
know. In the case of the latter... it's all the more reason to try to get
the issues resolved so that people stop complaining about them. At any rate,
I assume that the approach is not the official position of Xiph. Most of my
replies in that regard were caustic, with the purpose of making one take a step
back and say "oh yeah, that's not what Xiph is for"). I think Xiph has done
good work and I hope to see them continue it. I offer my suggestions/
criticisms in the spirit of improvement, not to start flame wars. With that
in mind, and with the above statements from you, I consider that part of
the "debate" closed, since we seem to agree on everything, and hope that
we can get working on the solutions.


prothonotar at tarnation.dyndns.org
"Every man is a mob, a chain gang of idiots." 
                           - Jonathan Nolan, /Momento Mori/

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