[Re: [icecast] icecast2 ??]

Aaron Gaudio prothonotar at tarnation.dyndns.org
Sun Dec 29 01:02:50 UTC 2002

Behold, gtgbr at gmx.net hath decreed:
> Aaron Gaudio wrote:
> > If icecast.org is so broken, then someone ought to do what was
> > suggested on the list in November (looking through the archives):
> > put it out of its misery. Why are there no "official" releases?
> I already told you, there *are* official releases (or, to be exact, one
> release), but icecast.org hasn't seen an update due to problems. Don't
> you think that Michael Smith, for example, would be happy to finally get
> his hard work on Icecast2 "out there" so people can find it in a more
> prominent place? These are problems neither you nor I can help with,
> Xiph.org does that, when they have the time. Believe it or not, there's
> more important stuff than Icecast2 - and those who want it can get it,
> they just have to bother themselves a little more than usual.

Then those who are interested in making the release(s) available should
look to an alternative site than xiph.org. What are the problems
with icecast.org? Why is it still operational? Why is there no other
site in its place? Is nobody willing to set one up?

> > That may be, but if the only "official" source I have to retrieve it
> > from is CVS, then it is not ready for prime time, no matter what its
> > stability may or may not be. First of all, grabbing the latest CVS
> You're just trolling. Who cares? Would you trust a network engineer with
> decades of experience, or would he have to buy himself a shiny
> certificate for $1000? This "official"-blah is pointless, it's the
> product and the fact that it's released that matter.

Where is it released? Telling me I have to set up cvs to download
the source code, lack of any sort of documentation is user-readable
format, lack of certain features such as directory server support..
that doesn't seem to spell released to me. Why do I have to subscribe
to the icecast user support mailing list to find out how to download
and use the only version of icecast that anyone is interested in
supporting? Is this simply a lack of enough people to work on these
more mundane details? If so, where is the call for help?

> Do you *demand* that you get something for free, officially?

I am not demanding anything. I'm simply stating that if the
maintainer(s) wishes to provide a product that people are interested
in using (including testing & bugfixing), then IMNSHO the current
mechanism for producing that product is inadequate. How many months
have to go by wasted on discussions between confused users and
apathetic developers before someone says "hey, wait, maybe if we
put this info up on a webpage somewhere, people will stop asking
us about it"?

> I never said that it's a final release, I said "alpha release". It's not
> feature complete. It's not been in beta, yet. It does, what it does,
> with great reliability and performance. It does enough to be useful for
> most potential users at this point already.

Then how is it a replacement for icecast1? How is a fully released 
icecast1 obsoleted by an alpha release?

> There's no directory server supporting Icecast2 servers.

Fine. Another feature missing from icecast2. 

> I also wouldn't
> ever announce my stream on such a server, but maybe that's just me.
> (When I stream, then it's just a couple hours for friends that I know
> personally)

OK. I'm not advocating what you personally want to do with the
product. There are people who do want to list there streams on 
directory servers, and icecast1 can do it. I presume icecast2 is
planning on supporting it. Of course, I don't know, because there's
no way for me to find out exactly what icecast2 can do without
fishing through mailing list archives, or taking the time to 
download it via cvs, run it, and futz with it myself. Is that the
best way to advertise a feature set (or even a list of TODO features)?

> > my little understanding of what exactly icecast2 does (hobbled together
> > from searches through the list archives, since there is no useful
> > webpage information).
> Icecast2 does nothing but relay. It doesn't re-encode from Vorbis to MP3
> or vice versa, that's the source client's job. For example Ices2.

I understand that, but I am lumping them into one, as an ices user
I would have to upgrade to both at the same time, and they are both
part of the same project. 


prothonotar at tarnation.dyndns.org
"Every man is a mob, a chain gang of idiots." 
                           - Jonathan Nolan, /Momento Mori/

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