[icecast] [email@example.com: Re: pho: How Live365 fights back...]
jack at icecast.org
Thu May 31 12:21:03 PDT 2001
This is a mail in response to streamripper being threatened by legal
action from Live365. The DMCA strikes again.
----- Forwarded message from Fred von Lohmann <fred at vonlohmann.com> -----
Delivered-To: jack at localhost.cantcode.com
Delivered-To: jack at icecast.org
X-Authentication-Warning: penguin.onehouse.com: majordomo set sender to owner-pho at onehouse.com using -f
X-Sent: 31 May 2001 19:05:59 GMT
Reply-To: "Fred von Lohmann" <fred at vonlohmann.com>
From: "Fred von Lohmann" <fred at vonlohmann.com>
To: "Jack Moffitt" <jack at icecast.org>, <pho at onehouse.com>
Subject: Re: pho: How Live365 fights back...
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 12:18:39 -0700
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
1. I agree with Jack's sentiment -- Americans who tape the radio don't think
they are breaking the law, and the same goes for those who save streams.
2. Now what the law *actually* has to say about taping from the radio is a
complicated subject, as it happens. If you do it with an analog cassette
deck or MD player, it's legal (17 USC 1008). If you do it with a computer,
well, who knows? AFAIK, a court has never addressed the fair use argument in
this context (partly b/c the RIAA has no incentive to litigate in this case,
which it would likely lose).
3. But, after the passage of DMCA's section 1201, a court may NEVER reach
the fair use question for digital streams. According to at least one court,
all you have to do is embed a "no copy" bit in your stream (even if the
stream itself is unencrypted and in the clear), and anyone who builds
software that ignores the bit is liable for unlawful circumvention, *even if
the recording would otherwise have been fair use.* See Real Networks v.
Streambox, 2000 WL 127311 (W.D.Wash. Jan.18, 2000).
Anyone want to venture a guess on whether Live365's <smirk> sophisticated
<\smirk> anti-copying measure, detailed below, qualifies as a "technological
protection measure" under 1201?
>Live365 put a large string in one of there HTML files
>// DEFINITION clegg n - large swift fly the female of
>which sucks blood of various animals [syn horsefly,
>cleg, horse fly]
>repeated about 100 times. they did this to over run a
>buffer in my html parsing code, thats why streamripper
If Real's "no copy" flag qualifies, I don't see why Live365's html wouldn't.
Ah, how I hate DMCA section 1201!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Moffitt" <jack at icecast.org>
To: <pho at onehouse.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 9:07 AM
Subject: Re: pho: How Live365 fights back...
> > I think it's unfair and inflammatory to call the copying of a digital
> > analgous to the analog taping of analog broadcast radio.
> I think it's also unfair and inflammatory to misuse 'digital'.
> For streaming applications, and for most practical storage, digital
> copies are not exact copies of the original, but lossily compressed
> Sure they can be infinitely recopied without loss, but they still aren't
> as good as the CD.
> And even if they were, or if radio broadcasted sending raw audio
> digitally, I WOULD STILL BE ALLOWED TO MAKE COPIES.
> Streamripper and similar tools are perfectly legitimate tools that have
> perfectly legitimate purposes. I find these things most often used by
> the broadcasters themselves to make archives of their broadcasts, since
> a lot of the broadcasting tools out there don't do this for you.
> The intent behind using streamripper to save a stream you like, and
> taping a broadcast from radio, is the same. And both _should_ be
> protected by fair use, to hell with what the DMCA says I can or cannot
> This is the pho mailing list, managed by Majordomo 1.94.4.
> To send a message to the list, email pho at onehouse.com.
> To send a request to majordomo, email majordomo at onehouse.com and put your
> request in the body of the message (use request "help" for help).
> To unsubscribe from the list, email majordomo at onehouse.com and put
> "unsubscribe pho" in the body of the message.
This is the pho mailing list, managed by Majordomo 1.94.4.
To send a message to the list, email pho at onehouse.com.
To send a request to majordomo, email majordomo at onehouse.com and put your
request in the body of the message (use request "help" for help).
To unsubscribe from the list, email majordomo at onehouse.com and put
"unsubscribe pho" in the body of the message.
----- End forwarded message -----
--- >8 ----
List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/
icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/
To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org'
containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed.
Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
More information about the Icecast