[vorbis] When will quality increase be unnoticable?

[Carsten Haese]

Phaedras at gmx.net wrote:
> When will codec development stop concentrating on quality and start
> concentrating on size? When I think about where Ogg Vorbis is right now and where it
> will be at 1.0, I don't understand why one would even need these "discrete
> wavelets" that are being discussed. Artifacts, like those that occur with MP3
> seem nonexistant with Vorbis. I don't notice any high-frequency "squishyness"
> How much more of a quality gain can even be achieved?

The answer to your first question is 'never,' but it should be pointed
out that the question is ill-posed to begin with. Quality and File Size
are two (somewhat) correlated variables, but as the encoder becomes
better, the correlation between sound quality and file size changes.
With newer encoders you can achieve the same quality at a smaller file
size, or you can enjoy better quality at the same file size. So, to
assert that Vorbis development concentrates on one versus the other is
quite untrue,  because the two are inextricably linked to one another.

These "wavelets" are an additional technique for encoding sound, and
they are "needed" to further enhance the Quality/Size "ratio" that the
encoder achieves.

Vorbis users have to untrain themselves from the MP3 thinking that a
specific bitrate implies a specific sound quality. (Heck, it's not even
true for MP3 if you compare the different MP3 encoders that are out
there!) With Vorbis, you specify the quality that you want to obtain.
If, for example, -q3 is satisfactory to you now, it will remain
satisfactory to you throughout future releases of the encoder (assuming
of course that your listening preferences don't change in the meantime).
But while the current encoder averages at approximately 112kbps to
achieve -q3, future encoders will cut the bitrate down, and the files
will become smaller.

I hope this helps,

Carsten Haese (Vorbis fan & advocate)

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