[vorbis] APPLAUD.WAV problems

[Segher Boessenkool]

> Yes it did. When you would set the bitrate you're trying to get and the
> encoder would try to match it.  It wouldn't be exact but it would be

It most certainly did not.  Either believe it or not.

> near it.  It was probably around beta4 or so I forget, but if it wasn't
> abr then developers did a damn good job at making it look like abr.  I
> even believe at one time there was an abr and vbr setting for oggenc, by
> not supplying an abr it would default to some vbr value.Again, this
> could have been even earlier in the beta series. I've been using ogg
> since it came out so I dont remember the exact version of it.

This happened in some strange parallel universe, I guess?

> 
> > > Now assuming there is some low inaudible noise in a silent
> > > clip, the encoder should be stripping out inaudible information anyway.
> >
> > How do you know it is inaudible?  You don't know the setting of my volume
> > knob.
> 
> Well, we've got silence with noise in the human hearing range that's
> just so small you cant hear at normal volumes and then you have silence
> with noise outside the human range.  Of course the encoder should be
> tearing the later out.

And it does.

> The former can still be solved by some advancement of the psychoacoustic
> engine. It has to be because you can set the quality setting to 1 and it
> sounds exactly the same as when you set it to 5 or 10 or whatever. Now

If _you_ can't hear the difference between q1, q5 and q10 feel free to
encode everything at q1.

> your volume argument if it applies to this must also apply to normal
> sound.

But then the absolute sound level will destroy your hearing.  The encoder
knows about this.

> So if you can hear differences in the silence at different
> bitrates then you can hear the differences of tones and music at all the
> different bitrates at a high enough volume,  but how much are we willing
> to magnify the audio to see those differences before we decide that the
> audio is too insignicant to play a role ?

You don't actually understand audio perception, or I didn't parse that
sentence correctly.

> Instead you seem to be hinting that the encoder doesn't care about the
> amplitude of the wave when despite your volume argument I think it
> should care about the amplitude of the wave in relation to some constant
> of human hearing response.

Amplitude in a computer file is just a number.  You can't tell how
loud it will be on playback.

<p>I'm not saying our perceptual engine is perfect.  But you don't understand
how it works, haven't read the code (not thorough enough, at least), and
are dead-on wrong here.

<p>Segher

<p>--- >8 ----
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