[vorbis] RC2 worse than RC1 and Beta4

M.r. Rage thobois at mindspring.com
Fri Aug 17 19:17:43 PDT 2001



 >I'm not arguing you're not hearing it actually... just that the
 >proffered explanation is not correct. The fact that you identify 7kHz
 >and 10kHz matches the code in fact; those two places are exactly
 >where the code is relaxing the resolution given to noise (the bands
 >above 7-8kHz, and again at the bands above ~11kHz).
 >rc2 *does* currently increase the real spectral noise energy at 11kHz
 >plus. This is due to point stereo not having the code to actually do
 >the correct trig when rotating phase. It fudges it for speed and adds
 >up to a factor of sqrt(2) to each spectral line it rotates. Many,
 >many picky people are hearing that and I'm going to do the rotation
 >correctly in rc3.
 >b4 may be giving a similar impression, but the perceived increase in
 >energy is false. What many people describe as an artificial crispness
 >in the b4 high end is actually due to the opposite reason than users
 >claim. It is not 'crisping' noise in the high spectrum, it is
 >actually smearing it. Rather than hearing exact harmonics above 10k
 >(for example, in voice where such harmonics are important), one hears
 >the harmonics somewhat fuzzed. Because the harmonics are not clean,
 >they're more noticable (not exactly mathing lower harmonics or
 >fundamentals), and thus a user could think that's a boost.
 >Careful spectral analysis should show this explanantion to be correct.

Thanks for the detailed response, Monty.
What you describe is exactly what I'm hearing. I was going to mention that 
the artifacts sounded similar to the "Aural Exciter" effect. I do need to 
mention that the fuzzy harmonics are far less objectionable than the 
over-ring heard with other codecs.
Vorbis is a great sounding codec and I appreciate you addressing my 
complaints. Viva Vorbis!

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