[vorbis] RC2 worse than RC1 and Beta4

[Attila Padar]

Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote:
>If you are using high bitrates you are just seeing placebo 
>effects. There are changes in the point stereo calculations 
>in CVS, but point stereo is not used in the higher bitrate 
>modes. 

1. Interesting... encoding the same song in 350kbit/s
bitrate mode I get:
with the RC2:          273 kbit/s OGG file
with the latest CVS: 261 kbit/s OGG file
The sound quality is also different, better in the 2. case.

2. a kind of channel coupling (phase stereo?) is used 
on the high bitrates too (or not?), and I hear that it also 
filters out a part of the high sounds from the music
and I lose from the stereo effect too a little bit.
(I encoded with the non-coupled mode too).
Maybe it's not totally lossless yet (if I remember well, 
you said that high bitrates use a lossless channel coupling 
mode, but I hear that the coupled and non-coupled songs
are different (or the 'lossless' doesn't mean this?)).

3. there is noise masking in RC2 on the high bitrates,
the beta4 doesn't use it on high bitrates...

I know more filters/maskings reduce the bitrate,
gives more dynamic and frequency range,
but maybe we lose some sharp/nice sounds on this way.

BUT  I will repeat my all tests, and if these were mistakes,
I will beg your pardon...
(the differences/quality bugs are very small, I need a longer
time to make sure of these bugs, but maybe these are
compiler/optimizer differences only (I use Win32/MSVC))

>If you do listening tests, always do a blind test. Your 
>mind _will_ play tricks on you otherwise. In fact, RC2 
>sounding worse than beta4 for you may very well 
>be just because you read on this list that is what other 
>people thought. There are others who percieve it just 
>the opposite. 

I did dare to share my own opinion, because I saw that
other people also think this. And we said that in the
listening test the beta4 sounds nicer, even if you said
(and perhaps we hear it too) that it produces a false output...

And I don't want to argue with you/developers,
you know better what you do...

Aleksandar Dovnikovic wrote:
>the only big problem in this mode is pre-echo. 

When will be corrected this?
I forget to say that I (and I think so a lot of other
people) need a near-lossless audio encoder
(in 1:5 compression), and I've thought that 
this will be the Ogg Vorbis....

regards
Attila

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