[vorbis-dev] Return of the Son of MIME type

[Ali Abdin]

* Ralph Giles (giles at snow.ashlu.bc.ca) wrote at 23:47 on 25/10/00:
> On 25 Oct 2000, Maciej Stachowiak wrote:
> 
> > I just read every post in the web archive of vorbis-dev with "mime" in
> > the title. I didn't see any that addressed anything remotely similar
> > to the usability arguments I, and numerous other people, raised in
> > this go-around. Thus, I think "go read the archives" is not a fair
> > response.
> 
> Yeah, most of the previous discussion has taken place around filename
> extensions. It's not fair. This should be faq. :-/
> 
> > Also, if people keep questioning this particular decision (including
> > intelligent, experienced engineers), maybe that means that the
> > decision should be reconsidered in light of new information.
> > 
> > Another data point: the fact that QuickTime has only a single file
> > type for both audio-only and audio/video files is widely cited as a
> > reason it's largely failed to catch on as a format for audio files,
> > unlike MPEG (which has separate audio and video mime types).
> 
> Not compression quality or the high price of authoring tools? I'd be
> interested in any reference pointers you have on this. I kinda missed the
> early years of mp3. Did the early file-trading use the web or another 
> mime-based protocol? What about in multimedia products and games?
> 
> > I also read over Chris Hanson's arguments where he argues that MIME
> > type is inadequate for selecting the application to launch for a
> > particular file. This simply seems bizzare, because that is the exact
> > purpose for which MIME types were invented. Originally this was meant
> > for email with non-plain-text data but over time has been extended to
> > many more internet protocols, and finally to nearly every desktop that
> > has been invented since the internet became popular (previously,
> > proprietary concepts of type abounded).
> 
> That's not a rebuttal to Chris' arguments, but you're right that the
> creator mechanism (particularly as implemented in MacOS) is less useful
> in a heterogeneous enviroment. I'm glad to hear Nautilus provides per-file
> application preferences! That handles many of the usability advantages
> Chris mentioned, in a smarter way. Is there a mechanism for applications
> to set that preference, or a policy against same?
> 
> > I still haven't seen any serious reason why it would be bad to have
> > three easily distinguishable types:
> > 
> > * audio/x-ogg for files where the primary use is audio
> > * video/x-ogg for files where the primary use is video
> > * application/x-ogg for anything more complicated
> 
> Rakholh's original question remains: how would we determine this
> efficiently? Filename extension? Initial binary stream-description
> substream that works with mime-magic?

(Rakholh == me) for those who didn't know :P

Anyway, I am never ever said that we should use filename extension to
determine this. I was advocating for a mime-magic number in the Ogg header
that would inform us of the contents within the Ogg bitstream
 
> I think the problem is that we fundamentally rate the audio vs. other 
> distinction as less important than the flexibility of ogg as a
> content-blind bitstream format. That's why we keep arguing about
> intangibles.
> 
> > P.P.S. I'm not flaming, or at least I don't mean to be. I think
> > everything I've said has been courteous and based on facts and
> > reasoning. Can't speak for others though.
> 
> No, you and Ali have both been polite and reasonable. We're just testy
> about having to rehash this design decision again.
> 
> Hopefully cordial in return,
>  -ralph
> 
> --
> giles at ashlu.bc.ca
> 
> 
> 
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