[Playlist] question about the XSPF specs

Mon Mar 30 18:25:32 UTC 2020

I wonder who is maintaining Tomahawk at this point. Github history shows
recent updates.

Thinking about the user-level demand for sharing, one angle that may not
have been fully explored is durability. For playlists to survive over time,
they need to be able to jump free of the original resources (MP3s, URLs,
MSPs) for which they were created. Are there playlists that call out for
long-term durability like this?

Does anybody have old playlists around which they loved enough to make
available nowadays?

On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 1:13 AM Benoît Gréant <gordie.lachance at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi,
> Yes, I know (knew) Tomahawks, I was a huge fan.
> At the beginning, Spiff was just a "backend" project made to feed Tomahawk
> with XSPF playlists...
>
> Thanks!
>
> Le lun. 30 mars 2020 à 02:34, Pushtape <pushtape at gmail.com> a écrit :
>
>> Hi Benoît, your idea reminds me a bit of the Tomahawk Player from a few
>> years back...sadly it looks like the project stalled. I recall the program
>> could parse XSPF, but not sure exactly how their multi-source resolver
>> worked. But perhaps worth examining their code and approach if you haven't
>> already.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomahawk_(software)
>> https://github.com/tomahawk-player/tomahawk
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 4:45 PM Lucas Gonze <lucas at gonze.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I appreciate where you are going with this. Godspeed.
>>>
>>> You are correct that an identifier is not necessarily playable, but this
>>> doesn't disqualify playability. That flows from a subtle point of XSPF's
>>> design. It is fundamentally a query language enabling user agents to get
>>> something played that matches the user's expectations. The user agent is
>>> free to resolve a YouTube link with a Spotify track and vice versa, but it
>>> is certainly welcome to play a Spotify link within Spotify.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 1:54 AM Benoît Gréant <gordie.lachance at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> If I understand correctly, that's exactly what i'm working on:
>>>> I want to attach several music services links to a track; hoping that
>>>> maybe the user can (because he's subscribed or something) play at least one.
>>>> That's why I think this is not the same than a file location (which is
>>>> a file everybody can play) or an identifier (which is not especially
>>>> playable, like musicbrainz)
>>>>
>>>> B
>>>>
>>>> Le mer. 25 mars 2020 à 23:48, Lucas Gonze <lucas at gonze.com> a écrit :
>>>>
>>>>> Speaking of user agents, as always the issue is that music nowadays is
>>>>> tightly held in deliberately non-interoperable pools. Is there hope for
>>>>> loosening that grip?
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 10:26 AM Lucas Gonze <lucas at gonze.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> You could put a YouTube link in the location element, or have
>>>>>> multiple identifier elements, each one with a different YouTube link.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The important thing is for user agents to support the convention.
>>>>>> You'd want to put a little work into adoption in things like VLC.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Lucas
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 10:19 AM Benoît Gréant <
>>>>>> gordie.lachance at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi and thanks for your kind reply.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I understand why the identifier can work for a spotify track, but is
>>>>>>> it relevant for a youtube link too ?
>>>>>>> I mean, there might be several different Youtube videos for a same
>>>>>>> track.  Which, then, is no more an ID, is it ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks !
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> B
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Le mar. 24 mars 2020 à 18:17, Lucas Gonze <lucas at gonze.com> a
>>>>>>> écrit :
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> After reading your more detailed issue description on Stack
>>>>>>>> Overflow, I have posted this answer there.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You should use the identifier element (
>>>>>>>> http://xspf.org/xspf-v1.html#rfc.section.4.1.1.2.14.1.1.1.2) for
>>>>>>>> things like Spotify links.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The info element can also do what you need (
>>>>>>>> http://xspf.org/xspf-v1.html#rfc.section.4.1.1.2.14.1.1.1.6), but
>>>>>>>> you can only have one per track, so you couldn't cover more than one
>>>>>>>> streaming service.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regarding the many years since the last update of the spec, maybe
>>>>>>>> it's time to work on one. A blessed JSON version would be useful.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's productive to discover that the spec is not clearly
>>>>>>>> communicating this information. In the time we wrote the spec most
>>>>>>>> functioning Internet music was an MP3 on a web server. Now streaming
>>>>>>>> services do the job. We could possibly fix this with an update to the
>>>>>>>> documentation. For example, the sample playlists at
>>>>>>>> http://xspf.org/quickstart/ could show how to do it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 10:05 AM Lucas Gonze <lucas at gonze.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Benoît, it's excellent to meet you. I am CC'ing the XSPF list at
>>>>>>>>> playlist at xiph.org and copying this answer to the Stack Overflow
>>>>>>>>> thread.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The info element is designed to do what you need:
>>>>>>>>> http://xspf.org/xspf-v1.html#rfc.section.4.1.1.2.14.1.1.1.6
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> However, there can only be one info element per track.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regarding the many years since the last update of the spec, maybe
>>>>>>>>> it's time to do one. A blessed JSON version would be useful.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -Lucas
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 1:38 AM Benoît Gréant <
>>>>>>>>> gordie.lachance at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi guys !
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I love your XSPF thing :)
>>>>>>>>>> Have been playing with it since several years, using it as base
>>>>>>>>>> for my website (&API
>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.spiff-radio.org/wordpress-soundsystem-plugin/soundsystem-api/>,
>>>>>>>>>> &WP plugin) spiff-radio.org.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I have a small question.  I want to attach (several) links to a
>>>>>>>>>> playlist track (eg. spotify/youtuble/apple music...); what tag should I use
>>>>>>>>>> for this ?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Well, I posted the complete question on Stackoverflow
>>>>>>>>>> <https://stackoverflow.com/questions/60822682/xspf-xml-playlist-specifications-how-should-i-format-links-to-one-or-several>
>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for your help.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Benoît
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> Playlist at xiph.org
>>> http://lists.xiph.org/mailman/listinfo/playlist
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
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