[ogg-dev] Ogg/Kate preliminary documentation

Silvia Pfeiffer silviapfeiffer1 at gmail.com
Thu Feb 7 04:45:04 PST 2008

On Jan 17, 2008 2:35 AM, ogg.k.ogg.k at googlemail.com <
ogg.k.ogg.k at googlemail.com> wrote:

> > > I did see references to Skeleton, I'll have a look at it. I didn't
> > > realize it was used widely
> >
> > It's not widely used currently.  The idea is to make that happen.
> Oh, I get you now.
> > CMML does of course other things besides subtitles.  Subtitle support
> > was pretty much just added recently.  Kate however does not seem to
> > offer more than CMML in the lyrics/subtitles department, besides
> This is true, as the design of XML makes it malleable to custom semantics:
> you can embed anything in an XML tree.
> > perhaps the concept of converting other subtitles formats (ASS, SRT,
> Which I have working in MPlayer now (from the 12 formats they support).
> But this is, as you say, moot since it'd be as easy to create CMML
> representations of these.
> > This does not mean Kate development should stop.  It just means that
> > if you are not willing to join efforts with the other developers we
> > will end up with two (let's not count Writ) different formats for the
> > same niche.  And then we have to tell people which of them should be
> > the default format for subtitles and lyrics, which means one format
> > will lose in favor of another, frustrating its developer(s).  I don't
> > think anyone wants that.
> I totally understand. I like doing this, so I will certainly not stop, but
> I do
> see the possible counterproductive effect (which was quite apparent from
> what I've seen on the web in discussions when I was looking at what was
> there).
> In parallel, I'll look more into CMML. However, without wanting to sound
> overly dismissive, I've seen this name mentionned a few times in several
> discussions over the years when text-in-ogg was mentionned, and we're
> still there. Again, that's just from Google searches, so I may be missing
> a
> lot, so please keep that in mind.

There has been a lot of tool development necessary around CMML and Skeleton
in recent years, which is why CMML hasn't progressed much. Now, we are
re-designing some of CMML to address other issues that have come up. If KATE
brings out further requirements for text tracks inside Ogg, it may be easier
to include these findings into CMML to make it richer and extend those
implementations rather than have to go down that whole path again. And...
lots of elements in CMML are optional (as are the URLs for example), so if
you just want to use it for karaoke, you might be looking at a timed text
file and a CSS specification that brings out the timed colouring of the text
etc. This is the preferred way of looking at it from a CMML perspective.

Just my 2c...

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