From mayianmm at jmu.edu  Tue Aug  2 16:32:09 2022
From: mayianmm at jmu.edu (Mayiani, Martin Martine - mayianmm)
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2022 16:32:09 +0000
Subject: [Icecast] Burst-size Setting
Message-ID: <SN6PR03MB35996328C317DD2586703155C19D9@SN6PR03MB3599.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>

I am curious , what do you all have as the burst-size? Like what number?


Martin Mayiani
Operation Specialist WMRA & WEMC
540.568.4045
wmra.org<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.wmra.org_&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=eQi7nhx8pVV4tLuhsbN2fg&m=NFlE41P71KSXw5cwSeRchUP5NPq-DGAcQ7PZuBLgoOU&s=kMN-C5UjM7TSPILlWvJ-k5wu4UUakvkqbiJTlV6-zog&e=>

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From brad at audiopump.co  Tue Aug  2 17:15:06 2022
From: brad at audiopump.co (Brad Isbell)
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2022 12:15:06 -0500
Subject: [Icecast] Burst-size Setting
In-Reply-To: <SN6PR03MB35996328C317DD2586703155C19D9@SN6PR03MB3599.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SN6PR03MB35996328C317DD2586703155C19D9@SN6PR03MB3599.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAELR-fCTMWz8ES7wykko8LOmkFJz-f4PZ2bb-VUCZGZqge-9Lg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Martin,
The ideal burst size is one that fills the receiver buffer as quickly as
possible, without being so great as to require the receiver to close their
TCP window due to backpressure on the stream from the player.

Most players will begin decoding with ~32-64 KiB of data, and will playback
with ~2 seconds of decoded audio.  So, if your burst size is set to your
bitrate times two seconds, you'll fill that buffer.  However, some clients
need to do additional type sniffing and what not before they begin
playback.  These often have hardcoded buffer sizes that must be filled
before playback, and can be as high as 256 KiB (optimized for video, not
audio).

A good tradeoff for a typical quality stream of 192kbit is around 5
seconds, or 120,000 bytes of burst.  Most clients will start instantly,
will have a plentiful buffer so they won't drop out, but the latency still
won't be too high for most channels.

Don't forget to check your queue-size as well!
*Brad Isbell // AudioPump, Inc.*
brad at audiopump.co
Skype: bradisbell
Phone: +1 312-488-4680


On Tue, Aug 2, 2022 at 11:32 AM Mayiani, Martin Martine - mayianmm <
mayianmm at jmu.edu> wrote:

> I am curious , what do you all have as the burst-size? Like what number?
>
>
>
>
>
> Martin Mayiani
>
> Operation Specialist WMRA & WEMC
>
> 540.568.4045
>
> wmra.org
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.wmra.org_&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=eQi7nhx8pVV4tLuhsbN2fg&m=NFlE41P71KSXw5cwSeRchUP5NPq-DGAcQ7PZuBLgoOU&s=kMN-C5UjM7TSPILlWvJ-k5wu4UUakvkqbiJTlV6-zog&e=>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Icecast mailing list
> Icecast at xiph.org
> http://lists.xiph.org/mailman/listinfo/icecast
>
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From mayianmm at jmu.edu  Tue Aug  2 18:18:45 2022
From: mayianmm at jmu.edu (Mayiani, Martin Martine - mayianmm)
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2022 18:18:45 +0000
Subject: [Icecast] Burst-size Setting
In-Reply-To: <CAELR-fCTMWz8ES7wykko8LOmkFJz-f4PZ2bb-VUCZGZqge-9Lg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <SN6PR03MB35996328C317DD2586703155C19D9@SN6PR03MB3599.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAELR-fCTMWz8ES7wykko8LOmkFJz-f4PZ2bb-VUCZGZqge-9Lg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SN6PR03MB359977400AC5860956EAB896C19D9@SN6PR03MB3599.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>

Thanks Brad! What would be a good queue-size  for a 64Kb player?

Thanks

Martin

From: Icecast <icecast-bounces at xiph.org> On Behalf Of Brad Isbell
Sent: Tuesday, August 2, 2022 1:15 PM
To: Icecast streaming server user discussions <icecast at xiph.org>
Subject: Re: [Icecast] Burst-size Setting

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of JMU. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.
________________________________
Hi Martin,
The ideal burst size is one that fills the receiver buffer as quickly as possible, without being so great as to require the receiver to close their TCP window due to backpressure on the stream from the player.

Most players will begin decoding with ~32-64 KiB of data, and will playback with ~2 seconds of decoded audio.  So, if your burst size is set to your bitrate times two seconds, you'll fill that buffer.  However, some clients need to do additional type sniffing and what not before they begin playback.  These often have hardcoded buffer sizes that must be filled before playback, and can be as high as 256 KiB (optimized for video, not audio).

A good tradeoff for a typical quality stream of 192kbit is around 5 seconds, or 120,000 bytes of burst.  Most clients will start instantly, will have a plentiful buffer so they won't drop out, but the latency still won't be too high for most channels.

Don't forget to check your queue-size as well!
[https://audiopump.co/img/audiopump-logo-64px.png]
Brad Isbell // AudioPump, Inc.
brad at audiopump.co<mailto:brad at audiopump.co>
Skype: bradisbell
Phone: +1 312-488-4680

On Tue, Aug 2, 2022 at 11:32 AM Mayiani, Martin Martine - mayianmm <mayianmm at jmu.edu<mailto:mayianmm at jmu.edu>> wrote:
I am curious , what do you all have as the burst-size? Like what number?


Martin Mayiani
Operation Specialist WMRA & WEMC
540.568.4045
wmra.org<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.wmra.org_&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=eQi7nhx8pVV4tLuhsbN2fg&m=NFlE41P71KSXw5cwSeRchUP5NPq-DGAcQ7PZuBLgoOU&s=kMN-C5UjM7TSPILlWvJ-k5wu4UUakvkqbiJTlV6-zog&e=>

_______________________________________________
Icecast mailing list
Icecast at xiph.org<mailto:Icecast at xiph.org>
http://lists.xiph.org/mailman/listinfo/icecast<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.xiph.org_mailman_listinfo_icecast&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=fM5iy7jgIV7jGhy9QkEGrRzrUkyJbowkkAtnu4o91nU&m=O4TNLmsZEYJLxMXHr33MzZoKVAtTDw1xwCWfol2kjmmfSGKsL5bR_JGKPMcbDgh3&s=kLwR1ovOiFfPEqlcKf0LX369wSsF1HqSVBzmwaR2pSk&e=>
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From gavin at stephens.net.nz  Wed Aug  3 00:31:19 2022
From: gavin at stephens.net.nz (Gavin Stephens)
Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2022 12:31:19 +1200
Subject: [Icecast] Burst-size Setting
In-Reply-To: <SN6PR03MB35996328C317DD2586703155C19D9@SN6PR03MB3599.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SN6PR03MB35996328C317DD2586703155C19D9@SN6PR03MB3599.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <824b3b1c-14a1-423f-62ef-1dd69798ddd1@stephens.net.nz>

I stream @ 320Kbps. I found the default settings not large enough for 
some players further afield or mobile so I put this in for 10 seconds 
buffer, 5 seconds burst:

 ??? <limits>
 ?????? <queue-size>409600</queue-size>
 ?????? <burst-on-connect>1</burst-on-connect>
 ?????? <burst-size>204800</burst-size>
 ??? </limits>

Because I use Win7 as a server, and the burst doesn't work very well in 
this scenario, I put this under listen-sockets:

 ??? <listen-socket>
 ???? ??????? <so-sndbuf>131072</so-sndbuf>
 ??? </listen-socket>

It's quite a large size buffer but I don't get any drop outs now 
@320kbps via a web based player or VLC over a mobile network here.


Cheers,

Gavin.

On 3/08/2022 4:32 am, Mayiani, Martin Martine - mayianmm wrote:
>
> I am curious , what do you all have as the burst-size? Like what number?
>
> Martin Mayiani
>
> Operation Specialist WMRA & WEMC
>
> 540.568.4045
>
> wmra.org 
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.wmra.org_&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=eQi7nhx8pVV4tLuhsbN2fg&m=NFlE41P71KSXw5cwSeRchUP5NPq-DGAcQ7PZuBLgoOU&s=kMN-C5UjM7TSPILlWvJ-k5wu4UUakvkqbiJTlV6-zog&e=>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Icecast mailing list
> Icecast at xiph.org
> http://lists.xiph.org/mailman/listinfo/icecast
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From phschafft at de.loewenfelsen.net  Thu Aug  4 09:29:02 2022
From: phschafft at de.loewenfelsen.net (Philipp Schafft)
Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2022 09:29:02 +0000
Subject: [Icecast] Burst-size Setting
In-Reply-To: <SN6PR03MB35996328C317DD2586703155C19D9@SN6PR03MB3599.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SN6PR03MB35996328C317DD2586703155C19D9@SN6PR03MB3599.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <82f42c4658d2234c02bc406143a7b262528599ad.camel@de.loewenfelsen.net>

Good morning,

On Tue, 2022-08-02 at 16:32 +0000, Mayiani, Martin Martine - mayianmm
wrote:
> I am curious , what do you all have as the burst-size? Like what
> number?

Generally speaking I would not recommend to change the values unless
you have a specific problem. It is way more easy to hurt your self with
those values than to fix anything.

That said, the interesting question here is: What is your actual
problem?


With best regards,

-- 
Philipp Schafft (CEO/Gesch?ftsf?hrer) 
Telephon:  +49.3535 490 17 92
Website:   https://www.loewenfelsen.net/
Follow us: https://www.linkedin.com/company/loewenfelsen/

L?wenfelsen UG (haftungsbeschr?nkt)     Registration number:
Bickinger Stra?e 21                     HRB 12308 CB
04916 Herzberg (Elster)                 VATIN/USt-ID:
Germany                                 DE305133015
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From phschafft at de.loewenfelsen.net  Thu Aug  4 09:32:40 2022
From: phschafft at de.loewenfelsen.net (Philipp Schafft)
Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2022 09:32:40 +0000
Subject: [Icecast] Burst-size Setting
In-Reply-To: <824b3b1c-14a1-423f-62ef-1dd69798ddd1@stephens.net.nz>
References: <SN6PR03MB35996328C317DD2586703155C19D9@SN6PR03MB3599.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <824b3b1c-14a1-423f-62ef-1dd69798ddd1@stephens.net.nz>
Message-ID: <0d69ead85ace6ca008a9b448b97c2658a3f7e543.camel@de.loewenfelsen.net>

Good morning,

On Wed, 2022-08-03 at 12:31 +1200, Gavin Stephens wrote:
> I stream @ 320Kbps. I found the default settings not large enough for
> some players further afield or mobile so I put this in for 10 seconds
> buffer, 5 seconds burst:
>     <limits>
>        <queue-size>409600</queue-size>
>        <burst-on-connect>1</burst-on-connect>

You should not set <burst-on-connect> as it is a legacy option. In fact
it does not do anything if set to 1. So... just remove it. :)


>        <burst-size>204800</burst-size>
>     </limits>

> Because I use Win7 as a server, and the burst doesn't work very well
> in this scenario, I put this under listen-sockets:
>     <listen-socket>
>              <so-sndbuf>131072</so-sndbuf>
>     </listen-socket>
> It's quite a large size buffer but I don't get any drop outs now
> @320kbps via a web based player or VLC over a mobile network here.

This is the part I find more interesting: I heard (in the source code)
about such problems on Windows. But I thought they were largely myths
as I have never seen them.

Would you be willing to run some tests with me regarding that setting?


With best regards,

-- 
Philipp Schafft (CEO/Gesch?ftsf?hrer) 
Telephon:  +49.3535 490 17 92
Website:   https://www.loewenfelsen.net/
Follow us: https://www.linkedin.com/company/loewenfelsen/

L?wenfelsen UG (haftungsbeschr?nkt)     Registration number:
Bickinger Stra?e 21                     HRB 12308 CB
04916 Herzberg (Elster)                 VATIN/USt-ID:
Germany                                 DE305133015
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From mayianmm at jmu.edu  Thu Aug  4 15:10:48 2022
From: mayianmm at jmu.edu (Mayiani, Martin Martine - mayianmm)
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2022 15:10:48 +0000
Subject: [Icecast] Burst-size Setting
In-Reply-To: <82f42c4658d2234c02bc406143a7b262528599ad.camel@de.loewenfelsen.net>
References: <SN6PR03MB35996328C317DD2586703155C19D9@SN6PR03MB3599.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <82f42c4658d2234c02bc406143a7b262528599ad.camel@de.loewenfelsen.net>
Message-ID: <SN6PR03MB3599E0F82F3A905509ADEDB5C19F9@SN6PR03MB3599.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>

Philip, 

So it is more of just trying to improve the listener experience than a problem. So when users go to our app or website and hit play, there's like a 6 seconds delay before the audio starts playing. I was trying to figure out how to cut down on that delay and I thought playing with burst-size would help. 

Thanks 


Martin 

-----Original Message-----
From: Icecast <icecast-bounces at xiph.org> On Behalf Of Philipp Schafft
Sent: Thursday, August 4, 2022 5:29 AM
To: Icecast streaming server user discussions <icecast at xiph.org>
Subject: Re: [Icecast] Burst-size Setting

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of JMU. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.
________________________________

Good morning,

On Tue, 2022-08-02 at 16:32 +0000, Mayiani, Martin Martine - mayianmm
wrote:
> I am curious , what do you all have as the burst-size? Like what 
> number?

Generally speaking I would not recommend to change the values unless you have a specific problem. It is way more easy to hurt your self with those values than to fix anything.

That said, the interesting question here is: What is your actual problem?


With best regards,

--
Philipp Schafft (CEO/Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
Telephon:  +49.3535 490 17 92
Website:   https://www.loewenfelsen.net/
Follow us: https://www.linkedin.com/company/loewenfelsen/

L?wenfelsen UG (haftungsbeschr?nkt)     Registration number:
Bickinger Stra?e 21                     HRB 12308 CB
04916 Herzberg (Elster)                 VATIN/USt-ID:
Germany                                 DE305133015
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From db76 at riseup.net  Thu Aug  4 20:27:40 2022
From: db76 at riseup.net (db76 at riseup.net)
Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2022 06:27:40 +1000
Subject: [Icecast] Burst-size Setting
In-Reply-To: <SN6PR03MB3599E0F82F3A905509ADEDB5C19F9@SN6PR03MB3599.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SN6PR03MB3599E0F82F3A905509ADEDB5C19F9@SN6PR03MB3599.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <B0B0E3CD-BC71-4C27-A3A1-FB271F35F909@riseup.net>

Hi Martin,
I had the same problem except listeners were having to wait up to 8 or 9 seconds before connecting. For a 256kbps stream, I set the burst size to 262144. Friends in different countries have reported fine listening experiences on mobile devices with an almost instantaneous connection. However, I cannot be sure if it has had negative effects on any other listeners. 

Damian 

> On 5 Aug 2022, at 01:11, Mayiani, Martin Martine - mayianmm <mayianmm at jmu.edu> wrote:
> 
> ?Philip, 
> 
> So it is more of just trying to improve the listener experience than a problem. So when users go to our app or website and hit play, there's like a 6 seconds delay before the audio starts playing. I was trying to figure out how to cut down on that delay and I thought playing with burst-size would help. 
> 
> Thanks 
> 
> 
> Martin 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Icecast <icecast-bounces at xiph.org> On Behalf Of Philipp Schafft
> Sent: Thursday, August 4, 2022 5:29 AM
> To: Icecast streaming server user discussions <icecast at xiph.org>
> Subject: Re: [Icecast] Burst-size Setting
> 
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of JMU. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.
> ________________________________
> 
> Good morning,
> 
>> On Tue, 2022-08-02 at 16:32 +0000, Mayiani, Martin Martine - mayianmm
>> wrote:
>> I am curious , what do you all have as the burst-size? Like what 
>> number?
> 
> Generally speaking I would not recommend to change the values unless you have a specific problem. It is way more easy to hurt your self with those values than to fix anything.
> 
> That said, the interesting question here is: What is your actual problem?
> 
> 
> With best regards,
> 
> --
> Philipp Schafft (CEO/Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
> Telephon:  +49.3535 490 17 92
> Website:   https://www.loewenfelsen.net/
> Follow us: https://www.linkedin.com/company/loewenfelsen/
> 
> L?wenfelsen UG (haftungsbeschr?nkt)     Registration number:
> Bickinger Stra?e 21                     HRB 12308 CB
> 04916 Herzberg (Elster)                 VATIN/USt-ID:
> Germany                                 DE305133015
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> _______________________________________________
> Icecast mailing list
> Icecast at xiph.org
> http://lists.xiph.org/mailman/listinfo/icecast

From phschafft at de.loewenfelsen.net  Fri Aug  5 11:51:10 2022
From: phschafft at de.loewenfelsen.net (Philipp Schafft)
Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2022 11:51:10 +0000
Subject: [Icecast] Presentation topics
Message-ID: <238251137304d526ff3c860201983f23c646483f.camel@de.loewenfelsen.net>

Good morning everyone,


our summer break is nearly over, meaning we're looking at the program
for the second half of the year.

There are already a few topics scheduled. However we still have some
free slots. So I wanted to ask all of you which topics you would be
most interested in. We're also open for topics slightly off Icecast
(such as broadcasting in general or signal processing) as long as we
can offer them. Also if you missed a specific presentation and are
waiting for a repeat, feel free to tell. :)


With best regards,


Overview of the current preliminary schedule:
2022-08-19    TBA
2022-09-09    Icecast, an overview (repeat)
2022-09-16 
Icecast, difference between 2.4.x and 2.5.x (repeat)
2022-09-23   
Icecast, FAQ (with your questions)


-- 
Philipp Schafft (CEO/Gesch?ftsf?hrer) 
Telephon:  +49.3535 490 17 92
Website:   https://www.loewenfelsen.net/
Follow us: https://www.linkedin.com/company/loewenfelsen/

L?wenfelsen UG (haftungsbeschr?nkt)     Registration number:
Bickinger Stra?e 21                     HRB 12308 CB
04916 Herzberg (Elster)                 VATIN/USt-ID:
Germany                                 DE305133015
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From db76 at riseup.net  Sat Aug  6 07:31:51 2022
From: db76 at riseup.net (Damian)
Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2022 17:31:51 +1000
Subject: [Icecast] No PRNG seed configured. PRNG is insecure.
Message-ID: <42DB1797-A4EF-47D9-A8FA-22018D319B44@riseup.net>

Hi,

I am migrating from icecast 2.4.4 and testing version 2.5.
I have installed on Debian 10 via source. Everything is working, although I can see in the Icecast admin page and also in the logs the following message:

No PRNG seed configured. PRNG is insecure

I am not sure how to troubleshoot this, so any pointers would be greatly appreciated.
This looks to be related to TSL/SSL. I have the public and private parts of my key together in a PEM, if this helps with diagnosing the issue.

Regards
Damian





From db76 at riseup.net  Mon Aug  8 11:50:36 2022
From: db76 at riseup.net (Damian)
Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2022 21:50:36 +1000
Subject: [Icecast] No PRNG seed configured. PRNG is insecure.
In-Reply-To: <42DB1797-A4EF-47D9-A8FA-22018D319B44@riseup.net>
References: <42DB1797-A4EF-47D9-A8FA-22018D319B44@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <02D6BCC1-A7D6-4028-8186-1035526D38A3@riseup.net>

Okay, so I feel pretty silly right now because I found the PRNG config settings at the bottom of the icecast.xml file.
I uncommented the following two lines (which I think is the correct thing to do) but I am not confident. 
Regardless, I don?t get any more error massage. 

<prng-seed type="read-write" size="1024">/var/cache/icecast.prng-seed</prng-seed>
<prng-seed type="profile">linux</prng-seed>

Can anyone confirm whether I am on the right track and whether the other two PRNG settings are also necessary?

I am running icecast 2.5 on Debian 10

Damian 


> On 6 Aug 2022, at 17:31AEST, Damian <db76 at riseup.net> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I am migrating from icecast 2.4.4 and testing version 2.5.
> I have installed on Debian 10 via source. Everything is working, although I can see in the Icecast admin page and also in the logs the following message:
> 
> No PRNG seed configured. PRNG is insecure
> 
> I am not sure how to troubleshoot this, so any pointers would be greatly appreciated.
> This looks to be related to TSL/SSL. I have the public and private parts of my key together in a PEM, if this helps with diagnosing the issue.
> 
> Regards
> Damian
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Icecast mailing list
> Icecast at xiph.org
> http://lists.xiph.org/mailman/listinfo/icecast

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From db76 at riseup.net  Wed Aug 10 00:59:36 2022
From: db76 at riseup.net (Damian)
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2022 10:59:36 +1000
Subject: [Icecast] Running Icecast 2.5 as a service
Message-ID: <0B981C4A-A228-465B-83AB-A61289963E04@riseup.net>

Hi, I?d like to know what the recommended (best practice) way is for running version 2.5 beta 3 as a service. I imagine that simply swapping out the binary of the stable version with the binary of the beta version and running the daemon is not advised.

Any help would be appreciated

db



From db76 at riseup.net  Wed Aug 10 01:01:59 2022
From: db76 at riseup.net (Damian)
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2022 11:01:59 +1000
Subject: [Icecast] No PRNG seed configured. PRNG is insecure.
In-Reply-To: <02D6BCC1-A7D6-4028-8186-1035526D38A3@riseup.net>
References: <42DB1797-A4EF-47D9-A8FA-22018D319B44@riseup.net>
 <02D6BCC1-A7D6-4028-8186-1035526D38A3@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <48E488DE-422A-4AC2-94BB-01458BC182E2@riseup.net>

Could anyone point me to the most relevant docs / discussion on line for this topic? Can?t find any docs at https://icecast.org/ <https://icecast.org/>  regarding this. 



> On 8 Aug 2022, at 21:50AEST, Damian <db76 at riseup.net> wrote:
> 
> Okay, so I feel pretty silly right now because I found the PRNG config settings at the bottom of the icecast.xml file.
> I uncommented the following two lines (which I think is the correct thing to do) but I am not confident. 
> Regardless, I don?t get any more error massage. 
> 
> <prng-seed type="read-write" size="1024">/var/cache/icecast.prng-seed</prng-seed>
> <prng-seed type="profile">linux</prng-seed>
> 
> Can anyone confirm whether I am on the right track and whether the other two PRNG settings are also necessary?
> 
> I am running icecast 2.5 on Debian 10
> 
> Damian 
> 
> 
>> On 6 Aug 2022, at 17:31AEST, Damian <db76 at riseup.net <mailto:db76 at riseup.net>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I am migrating from icecast 2.4.4 and testing version 2.5.
>> I have installed on Debian 10 via source. Everything is working, although I can see in the Icecast admin page and also in the logs the following message:
>> 
>> No PRNG seed configured. PRNG is insecure
>> 
>> I am not sure how to troubleshoot this, so any pointers would be greatly appreciated.
>> This looks to be related to TSL/SSL. I have the public and private parts of my key together in a PEM, if this helps with diagnosing the issue.
>> 
>> Regards
>> Damian
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Icecast mailing list
>> Icecast at xiph.org <mailto:Icecast at xiph.org>
>> http://lists.xiph.org/mailman/listinfo/icecast
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Icecast mailing list
> Icecast at xiph.org
> http://lists.xiph.org/mailman/listinfo/icecast

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From phschafft at de.loewenfelsen.net  Wed Aug 10 09:19:03 2022
From: phschafft at de.loewenfelsen.net (Philipp Schafft)
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2022 09:19:03 +0000
Subject: [Icecast] No PRNG seed configured. PRNG is insecure.
In-Reply-To: <48E488DE-422A-4AC2-94BB-01458BC182E2@riseup.net>
References: <42DB1797-A4EF-47D9-A8FA-22018D319B44@riseup.net>
 <02D6BCC1-A7D6-4028-8186-1035526D38A3@riseup.net>
 <48E488DE-422A-4AC2-94BB-01458BC182E2@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <152321d323208b09d1111a1fbac6b8e6f9e206b6.camel@de.loewenfelsen.net>

Good morning,

On Wed, 2022-08-10 at 11:01 +1000, Damian wrote:
> Could anyone point me to the most relevant docs / discussion on line
> for this topic? Can?t find any docs at https://icecast.org/ 
> regarding this. 

There is hardly anything as this setting was mostly superseded by the
use of libigloo. Which happened since the last beta (while super
stable, it's still a beta after all for exactly this type of reasons
:).

Adding the "linux" profile as you did should do the trick just fine for
the version you are running.

Also this is not really TLS related. This is for everything that needs
random numbers that is not TLS. (And therefore also applies to non-TLS
builds).


With best regards,


> > On 8 Aug 2022, at 21:50AEST, Damian <db76 at riseup.net> wrote:
> > 
> > Okay, so I feel pretty silly right now because I found the PRNG
> > config settings at the bottom of the icecast.xml file.
> > I uncommented the following two lines (which I think is the correct
> > thing to do) but I am not confident. 
> > Regardless, I don?t get any more error massage. 
> > 
> > <prng-seed type="read-write" size="1024">/var/cache/icecast.prng-
> > seed</prng-seed>
> > <prng-seed type="profile">linux</prng-seed>
> > 
> > Can anyone confirm whether I am on the right track and whether the
> > other two PRNG settings are also necessary?
> > 
> > I am running icecast 2.5 on Debian 10
> > 
> > Damian 
> > 
> > 
> > > On 6 Aug 2022, at 17:31AEST, Damian <db76 at riseup.net> wrote:
> > > 
> > > Hi,
> > > 
> > > I am migrating from icecast 2.4.4 and testing version 2.5.
> > > I have installed on Debian 10 via source. Everything is working,
> > > although I can see in the Icecast admin page and also in the logs
> > > the following message:
> > > 
> > > No PRNG seed configured. PRNG is insecure
> > > 
> > > I am not sure how to troubleshoot this, so any pointers would be
> > > greatly appreciated.
> > > This looks to be related to TSL/SSL. I have the public and
> > > private parts of my key together in a PEM, if this helps with
> > > diagnosing the issue.


-- 
Philipp Schafft (CEO/Gesch?ftsf?hrer) 
Telephon:  +49.3535 490 17 92
Website:   https://www.loewenfelsen.net/
Follow us: https://www.linkedin.com/company/loewenfelsen/

L?wenfelsen UG (haftungsbeschr?nkt)     Registration number:
Bickinger Stra?e 21                     HRB 12308 CB
04916 Herzberg (Elster)                 VATIN/USt-ID:
Germany                                 DE305133015
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From db76 at riseup.net  Wed Aug 10 12:48:20 2022
From: db76 at riseup.net (Damian)
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2022 22:48:20 +1000
Subject: [Icecast] No PRNG seed configured. PRNG is insecure.
In-Reply-To: <152321d323208b09d1111a1fbac6b8e6f9e206b6.camel@de.loewenfelsen.net>
References: <42DB1797-A4EF-47D9-A8FA-22018D319B44@riseup.net>
 <02D6BCC1-A7D6-4028-8186-1035526D38A3@riseup.net>
 <48E488DE-422A-4AC2-94BB-01458BC182E2@riseup.net>
 <152321d323208b09d1111a1fbac6b8e6f9e206b6.camel@de.loewenfelsen.net>
Message-ID: <65DBFD82-48D2-4CCB-B4E1-2DB36BA4B882@riseup.net>

Okay. Thanks for clarifying. 

> On 10 Aug 2022, at 19:19AEST, Philipp Schafft <phschafft at de.loewenfelsen.net> wrote:
> 
> Good morning,
> 
> On Wed, 2022-08-10 at 11:01 +1000, Damian wrote:
>> Could anyone point me to the most relevant docs / discussion on line
>> for this topic? Can?t find any docs at https://icecast.org/ <https://icecast.org/> 
>> regarding this. 
> 
> There is hardly anything as this setting was mostly superseded by the
> use of libigloo. Which happened since the last beta (while super
> stable, it's still a beta after all for exactly this type of reasons
> :).
> 
> Adding the "linux" profile as you did should do the trick just fine for
> the version you are running.
> 
> Also this is not really TLS related. This is for everything that needs
> random numbers that is not TLS. (And therefore also applies to non-TLS
> builds).
> 
> 
> With best regards,
> 
> 
>>> On 8 Aug 2022, at 21:50AEST, Damian <db76 at riseup.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Okay, so I feel pretty silly right now because I found the PRNG
>>> config settings at the bottom of the icecast.xml file.
>>> I uncommented the following two lines (which I think is the correct
>>> thing to do) but I am not confident. 
>>> Regardless, I don?t get any more error massage. 
>>> 
>>> <prng-seed type="read-write" size="1024">/var/cache/icecast.prng-
>>> seed</prng-seed>
>>> <prng-seed type="profile">linux</prng-seed>
>>> 
>>> Can anyone confirm whether I am on the right track and whether the
>>> other two PRNG settings are also necessary?
>>> 
>>> I am running icecast 2.5 on Debian 10
>>> 
>>> Damian 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 6 Aug 2022, at 17:31AEST, Damian <db76 at riseup.net> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi,
>>>> 
>>>> I am migrating from icecast 2.4.4 and testing version 2.5.
>>>> I have installed on Debian 10 via source. Everything is working,
>>>> although I can see in the Icecast admin page and also in the logs
>>>> the following message:
>>>> 
>>>> No PRNG seed configured. PRNG is insecure
>>>> 
>>>> I am not sure how to troubleshoot this, so any pointers would be
>>>> greatly appreciated.
>>>> This looks to be related to TSL/SSL. I have the public and
>>>> private parts of my key together in a PEM, if this helps with
>>>> diagnosing the issue.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Philipp Schafft (CEO/Gesch?ftsf?hrer) 
> Telephon:  +49.3535 490 17 92
> Website:   https://www.loewenfelsen.net/ <https://www.loewenfelsen.net/>
> Follow us: https://www.linkedin.com/company/loewenfelsen/ <https://www.linkedin.com/company/loewenfelsen/>
> 
> L?wenfelsen UG (haftungsbeschr?nkt)     Registration number:
> Bickinger Stra?e 21                     HRB 12308 CB
> 04916 Herzberg (Elster)                 VATIN/USt-ID:
> Germany                                 DE305133015
> _______________________________________________
> Icecast mailing list
> Icecast at xiph.org <mailto:Icecast at xiph.org>
> http://lists.xiph.org/mailman/listinfo/icecast <http://lists.xiph.org/mailman/listinfo/icecast>
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From db76 at riseup.net  Fri Aug 12 10:10:15 2022
From: db76 at riseup.net (Damian)
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2022 20:10:15 +1000
Subject: [Icecast] Running Icecast 2.5 as a service
In-Reply-To: <0B981C4A-A228-465B-83AB-A61289963E04@riseup.net>
References: <0B981C4A-A228-465B-83AB-A61289963E04@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <0A561213-DCC9-4C6A-9762-395AF18DF62D@riseup.net>

Perhaps it isn?t possible at this stage to run version 2.5 beta as a service... Is this the case?

> On 10 Aug 2022, at 10:59AEST, Damian <db76 at riseup.net> wrote:
> 
> Hi, I?d like to know what the recommended (best practice) way is for running version 2.5 beta 3 as a service. I imagine that simply swapping out the binary of the stable version with the binary of the beta version and running the daemon is not advised.
> 
> Any help would be appreciated
> 
> db
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Icecast mailing list
> Icecast at xiph.org
> http://lists.xiph.org/mailman/listinfo/icecast



From phschafft at de.loewenfelsen.net  Fri Aug 12 12:06:51 2022
From: phschafft at de.loewenfelsen.net (Philipp Schafft)
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2022 12:06:51 +0000
Subject: [Icecast] Running Icecast 2.5 as a service
In-Reply-To: <0A561213-DCC9-4C6A-9762-395AF18DF62D@riseup.net>
References: <0B981C4A-A228-465B-83AB-A61289963E04@riseup.net>
 <0A561213-DCC9-4C6A-9762-395AF18DF62D@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <d8df916b4b7e5161283620c4d07343ccf0e6729d.camel@de.loewenfelsen.net>

Good afternoon,

On Fri, 2022-08-12 at 20:10 +1000, Damian wrote:
> Perhaps it isn?t possible at this stage to run version 2.5 beta as a
> service... Is this the case?

No. And I'm honestly confused by you amusing something like that. The
way Icecast 2.5.x is started has not changed at all since before 2.4.x.

So... the way to run it as a service (and I think by that you mean as a
daemon) is exactly the same as for 2.4.x.

With best regards,


> > On 10 Aug 2022, at 10:59AEST, Damian <db76 at riseup.net> wrote:
> > 
> > Hi, I?d like to know what the recommended (best practice) way is
> > for running version 2.5 beta 3 as a service. I imagine that simply
> > swapping out the binary of the stable version with the binary of
> > the beta version and running the daemon is not advised.

The correct way is to /install/ it. Just like you would with 2.4.x.

Swapping files is very likely to break things. Most users forget to
swap *all* parts. And if you do swap all parts, how is that any
different from uninstalling the old version and installing the new
version? ;)


With best regards,

-- 
Philipp Schafft (CEO/Gesch?ftsf?hrer) 
Telephon:  +49.3535 490 17 92
Website:   https://www.loewenfelsen.net/
Follow us: https://www.linkedin.com/company/loewenfelsen/

L?wenfelsen UG (haftungsbeschr?nkt)     Registration number:
Bickinger Stra?e 21                     HRB 12308 CB
04916 Herzberg (Elster)                 VATIN/USt-ID:
Germany                                 DE305133015
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From db76 at riseup.net  Fri Aug 12 12:58:35 2022
From: db76 at riseup.net (Damian)
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2022 22:58:35 +1000
Subject: [Icecast] Running Icecast 2.5 as a service
In-Reply-To: <d8df916b4b7e5161283620c4d07343ccf0e6729d.camel@de.loewenfelsen.net>
References: <0B981C4A-A228-465B-83AB-A61289963E04@riseup.net>
 <0A561213-DCC9-4C6A-9762-395AF18DF62D@riseup.net>
 <d8df916b4b7e5161283620c4d07343ccf0e6729d.camel@de.loewenfelsen.net>
Message-ID: <3F3AEE2E-F67D-4220-AB9A-8C36675A6F7E@riseup.net>

Hi Philipp,

Thanks of the reply. Apologies for the naive question. I guess I am a little confused and need some advice.

I currently have version 2.4.4 installed via apt on Debian 10. 
I start that by doing sudo service icecast2 start

I have also installed version 2.5 beta 3 via http://downloads.xiph.org/releases/icecast/icecast-2.5-beta3.tar.gz <http://downloads.xiph.org/releases/icecast/icecast-2.5-beta3.tar.gz> and compiled the software.

I start it by doing icecast -b -c /path/to/icecast.xml

If I want to run it in daemon mode, what is the way to do so?

Damian

> On 12 Aug 2022, at 22:06AEST, Philipp Schafft <phschafft at de.loewenfelsen.net> wrote:
> 
> Good afternoon,
> 
> On Fri, 2022-08-12 at 20:10 +1000, Damian wrote:
>> Perhaps it isn?t possible at this stage to run version 2.5 beta as a
>> service... Is this the case?
> 
> No. And I'm honestly confused by you amusing something like that. The
> way Icecast 2.5.x is started has not changed at all since before 2.4.x.
> 
> So... the way to run it as a service (and I think by that you mean as a
> daemon) is exactly the same as for 2.4.x.
> 
> With best regards,
> 
> 
>>> On 10 Aug 2022, at 10:59AEST, Damian <db76 at riseup.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi, I?d like to know what the recommended (best practice) way is
>>> for running version 2.5 beta 3 as a service. I imagine that simply
>>> swapping out the binary of the stable version with the binary of
>>> the beta version and running the daemon is not advised.
> 
> The correct way is to /install/ it. Just like you would with 2.4.x.
> 
> Swapping files is very likely to break things. Most users forget to
> swap *all* parts. And if you do swap all parts, how is that any
> different from uninstalling the old version and installing the new
> version? ;)
> 
> 
> With best regards,
> 
> -- 
> Philipp Schafft (CEO/Gesch?ftsf?hrer) 
> Telephon:  +49.3535 490 17 92
> Website:   https://www.loewenfelsen.net/
> Follow us: https://www.linkedin.com/company/loewenfelsen/
> 
> L?wenfelsen UG (haftungsbeschr?nkt)     Registration number:
> Bickinger Stra?e 21                     HRB 12308 CB
> 04916 Herzberg (Elster)                 VATIN/USt-ID:
> Germany                                 DE305133015
> _______________________________________________
> Icecast mailing list
> Icecast at xiph.org
> http://lists.xiph.org/mailman/listinfo/icecast

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From db76 at riseup.net  Fri Aug 12 13:25:04 2022
From: db76 at riseup.net (Damian)
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2022 23:25:04 +1000
Subject: [Icecast] Running Icecast 2.5 as a service
In-Reply-To: <3F3AEE2E-F67D-4220-AB9A-8C36675A6F7E@riseup.net>
References: <0B981C4A-A228-465B-83AB-A61289963E04@riseup.net>
 <0A561213-DCC9-4C6A-9762-395AF18DF62D@riseup.net>
 <d8df916b4b7e5161283620c4d07343ccf0e6729d.camel@de.loewenfelsen.net>
 <3F3AEE2E-F67D-4220-AB9A-8C36675A6F7E@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <FAEED1AA-E13E-448A-9EBA-0A85A8A04763@riseup.net>

To help clarify my initial question about swapping out the binary, I actually took the advice from an earlier thread here. 

https://lists.xiph.org/pipermail/icecast/2019-February/014507.html <https://lists.xiph.org/pipermail/icecast/2019-February/014507.html>

And here ?

https://lists.xiph.org/pipermail/icecast/2019-February/014506.html <https://lists.xiph.org/pipermail/icecast/2019-February/014506.html>

I had hoped that I would not need to do this which is why I asked again in this thread. If I need to install the daemon to run 2.5, I?d like to know where to I get this from. I am having a hard time finding information for this.


> On 12 Aug 2022, at 22:58AEST, Damian <db76 at riseup.net> wrote:
> 
> Hi Philipp,
> 
> Thanks of the reply. Apologies for the naive question. I guess I am a little confused and need some advice.
> 
> I currently have version 2.4.4 installed via apt on Debian 10. 
> I start that by doing sudo service icecast2 start
> 
> I have also installed version 2.5 beta 3 via http://downloads.xiph.org/releases/icecast/icecast-2.5-beta3.tar.gz <http://downloads.xiph.org/releases/icecast/icecast-2.5-beta3.tar.gz> and compiled the software.
> 
> I start it by doing icecast -b -c /path/to/icecast.xml
> 
> If I want to run it in daemon mode, what is the way to do so?
> 
> Damian
> 
>> On 12 Aug 2022, at 22:06AEST, Philipp Schafft <phschafft at de.loewenfelsen.net <mailto:phschafft at de.loewenfelsen.net>> wrote:
>> 
>> Good afternoon,
>> 
>> On Fri, 2022-08-12 at 20:10 +1000, Damian wrote:
>>> Perhaps it isn?t possible at this stage to run version 2.5 beta as a
>>> service... Is this the case?
>> 
>> No. And I'm honestly confused by you amusing something like that. The
>> way Icecast 2.5.x is started has not changed at all since before 2.4.x.
>> 
>> So... the way to run it as a service (and I think by that you mean as a
>> daemon) is exactly the same as for 2.4.x.
>> 
>> With best regards,
>> 
>> 
>>>> On 10 Aug 2022, at 10:59AEST, Damian <db76 at riseup.net <mailto:db76 at riseup.net>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi, I?d like to know what the recommended (best practice) way is
>>>> for running version 2.5 beta 3 as a service. I imagine that simply
>>>> swapping out the binary of the stable version with the binary of
>>>> the beta version and running the daemon is not advised.
>> 
>> The correct way is to /install/ it. Just like you would with 2.4.x.
>> 
>> Swapping files is very likely to break things. Most users forget to
>> swap *all* parts. And if you do swap all parts, how is that any
>> different from uninstalling the old version and installing the new
>> version? ;)
>> 
>> 
>> With best regards,
>> 
>> -- 
>> Philipp Schafft (CEO/Gesch?ftsf?hrer) 
>> Telephon:  +49.3535 490 17 92
>> Website:   https://www.loewenfelsen.net/ <https://www.loewenfelsen.net/>
>> Follow us: https://www.linkedin.com/company/loewenfelsen/ <https://www.linkedin.com/company/loewenfelsen/>
>> 
>> L?wenfelsen UG (haftungsbeschr?nkt)     Registration number:
>> Bickinger Stra?e 21                     HRB 12308 CB
>> 04916 Herzberg (Elster)                 VATIN/USt-ID:
>> Germany                                 DE305133015
>> _______________________________________________
>> Icecast mailing list
>> Icecast at xiph.org <mailto:Icecast at xiph.org>
>> http://lists.xiph.org/mailman/listinfo/icecast
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Icecast mailing list
> Icecast at xiph.org
> http://lists.xiph.org/mailman/listinfo/icecast

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