From geoff at QuiteLikely.com Thu May 2 08:37:20 2013 From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang) Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 11:37:20 +0300 (IDT) Subject: [Icecast] Hiya! And a question... In-Reply-To: <314511B9-1B15-4A01-A563-0D7C39459543@tjbaker.co.uk> References: <314511B9-1B15-4A01-A563-0D7C39459543@tjbaker.co.uk> Message-ID: On Sat, 30 Mar 2013, Tim Baker wrote: > I have a question - I'm running an Airtime install with Icecast - and > yes I asked them first but this has flummoxed them over at Sourcefabric > - anyone had a problem with a HQ (192kbs) stream rebuffering every few > seconds during a FTP/SSH upload to a remote streaming server? Strangely > the libShout and low (mono 96kbs) streams are fine during this, but not > streamhigh (the HQ stream). I'm only uploading one file?doesn't seem to > matter big or small, the HQ stream goes crazy during this. Fine other > times. Tried both Filezilla and Cyberduck over root SSH or FTP under a > designated ftp user, still the same issue. It's not completely clear to me where the transfer is happening and where the stream is being sourced and served from. If the stream is being sourced from A and served on B, and the file transfer is from A to B, then this is probably just a matter of the transfer swamping all available bandwidth. If yo can prioritise the stream connection in your router, this should take care of this. If the Icecast server is A and it's being sourced on the same machine, and a transfer to B is causing this, it could well be the same sort of issue. If it's a hosted server, you may need to get the operating system/kernel to do the prioritising, and I'm not sure how one would do this. If it's some other combination, let us know what it is so we can make other suggestions. Cheers, Geoff. From scottsdeskcpu at yahoo.com Thu May 9 08:09:54 2013 From: scottsdeskcpu at yahoo.com (Scott Winterstein) Date: Thu, 9 May 2013 10:09:54 +0200 Subject: [Icecast] IceCast broadcast calculations Message-ID: Hello all reading this. I am new to the list as a way to learn a few things about IceCast and I am fuzzy on. I am not a total noob to media, or serving it. I have even developed, setup configured, a media server, or two, and many many dedicated, or otherwise hosting servers, and by either blind luck and chance found them to actually work once I was done. I am Scott, am in the process of building a linux IceCast server. I hope you don't mind my walk down memory lane but It pertains to the quandary. Back in the day ( late1997 ish) I was developing, some of the first early proof of concepts of streaming media servers, and streaming websites. We had 3 parts to the early versions of these media systems. We were also already developing, ideas for a streaming solutions our supplier of hardware and software was ViewCast's early Osprey, who's hardware consisted in large, and supplied through companies acquired by PolyCom. PolyCom's Hardware/Software solutions through acquisitions of many players at the time, were alot of the same stuff, their motivation of course, to produce early Teleconference products, and snap up major stakes in Streaming Media. One box was an encoding server that was used to encode the video/audio into digital format. The second was a server with a T1 internet connection and dedicated IP, the encoded video/audio files were stored. The third was a IIS webserver same T1 internet connection but different IP. We were working on early ideas, and developing caching servers too. I would via 1 single live (60 min. 548 kbps @24 fps) instance in a basic player of shock wave flash code embedded in a webpage, broadcasting without issue that single data rate, and don't recall ever requiring a calculation involving per viewer being needed to calculate bandwidth requirements, as it is a single instance of one data rate correct? As I recall the only variable required was the effective data rate of the broadcast stream. So as shown above you need at least a 548 kbps connection at both ends of the Broadcast to watch it with no issues, by 1000's at the same time, and don't see how a per person suddenly came into the picture in broadcasting media. Only if you had say, 30 live (60 min. 548 kbps @24 fps) instances of that same video/audio sources broadcasting in embedded players at the same exact time in different webpages to 30 separate viewers on the same T1, would you need to use a calculation, to determine that at least 1048576kbps bandwidth would be required. Maybe I forgot something, or these people providing IceCast broadcasting host connections, are charging people right, and making very little profits, or they are raping people using their services to broadcast their stream?? IDK? I said all that to ask this. One of my reasons for considering my own IceCast server to stream, is the outlandish pricing of the IceCast hosts. Can someone tell me my calculations that I have to use I mean by my calculations, one broadcast stream at 128kbps would require 128kbps of my current internet connection, not dependent upon how many listeners I have. Mit freundlichen Gr??en Scott Winterstein EMAIL: scottsdeskcpu at yahoo.om WEBSITE: www.ScottsDesk.net FACEBOOK: ScottsDesk DEVELOPMENT: DLRADIO -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scottsdeskcpu at yahoo.com Thu May 9 10:17:25 2013 From: scottsdeskcpu at yahoo.com (Scott Winterstein) Date: Thu, 9 May 2013 12:17:25 +0200 Subject: [Icecast] ICECAST CONFIG Message-ID: Hello all reading this. I am new to the list as a way to learn a few things about IceCast and I am fuzzy on. I am not a total noob to media, or serving it. I have even developed, setup configured, a media server, or two, and many many dedicated, or otherwise hosting servers, and by either blind luck and chance found them to actually work once I was done. I am Scott, am in the process of building a linux IceCast server. I hope you don't mind my walk down memory lane but It pertains to the quandary. Back in the day ( late1997 ish) I was developing, some of the first early proof of concepts of streaming media servers, and streaming websites. We had 3 parts to the early versions of these media systems. We were also already developing, ideas for a streaming solutions our supplier of hardware and software was ViewCast's early Osprey, who's hardware consisted in large, and supplied through companies acquired by PolyCom. PolyCom's Hardware/Software solutions through acquisitions of many players at the time, were alot of the same stuff, their motivation of course, to produce early Teleconference products, and snap up major stakes in Streaming Media. One box was an encoding server that was used to encode the video/audio into digital format. The second was a server with a T1 internet connection and dedicated IP, the encoded video/audio files were stored. The third was a IIS webserver same T1 internet connection but different IP. We were working on early ideas, and developing caching servers too. I would via 1 single live (60 min. 548 kbps @24 fps) instance in a basic player of shock wave flash code embedded in a webpage, broadcasting without issue that single data rate, and don't recall ever requiring a calculation involving per viewer being needed to calculate bandwidth requirements, as it is a single instance of one data rate correct? As I recall the only variable required was the effective data rate of the broadcast stream. So as shown above you need at least a 548 kbps connection at both ends of the Broadcast to watch it with no issues, by 1000's at the same time, and don't see how a per person suddenly came into the picture in broadcasting media. Only if you had say, 30 live (60 min. 548 kbps @24 fps) instances of that same video/audio sources broadcasting in embedded players at the same exact time in different webpages to 30 separate viewers on the same T1, would you need to use a calculation, to determine that at least 1048576kbps bandwidth would be required. Maybe I forgot something, or these people providing IceCast broadcasting host connections, are charging people right, and making very little profits, or they are raping people using their services to broadcast their stream?? IDK? I said all that to ask this. One of my reasons for considering my own IceCast server to stream, is the outlandish pricing of the IceCast hosts. Can someone tell me my calculations that I have to use I mean by my calculations, one broadcast stream at 128kbps would require 128kbps of my current internet connection, not dependent upon how many listeners I have. One last thing... Can someone paste me a base config text with the default stuff stripped out? I tred a few times and messed the file up. Mit freundlichen Gr??en Scott Winterstein EMAIL: scottsdeskcpu at yahoo.om WEBSITE: www.ScottsDesk.net FACEBOOK: ScottsDesk DEVELOPMENT: DLRADIO From devi at bnaindia.com Fri May 17 13:42:41 2013 From: devi at bnaindia.com (H.DEVI SHREE) Date: Fri, 17 May 2013 21:42:41 +0800 (SGT) Subject: [Icecast] Query related to icecast server 2.3.2 Message-ID: <1368798161.71849.YahooMailNeo@web2704.biz.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> Dear Sir/Madam, As i'm a newbie to work at icecast server. My required application is to play different channels(approximately 100) at the icecast server with source client. I gone through the link www.icecast.org , and got some idea related to my requirement. And also i have gone through a video for streaming audio in icecast server and tried with the same. Almost i got it but at the final stage i couldn't able to stream the playlist, some problem with source client i guess. Now i just want to know the prerequisites packages mentioned under documents section in the link and these packages are given below: "libxml2 - http://xmlsoft.org/downloads.html * libxslt - http://xmlsoft.org/XSLT/downloads.html * curl - http://curl.haxx.se/download.html (>= version 7.10 required)" These prerequisites how it is related to icecast server. Please do reply asap, it is appreciated. ? Thanks and Regards H.DEVI SHREE BNA Technology Consulting Ltd. Bangalore. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From devi at bnaindia.com Sat May 18 08:24:40 2013 From: devi at bnaindia.com (H.DEVI SHREE) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 16:24:40 +0800 (SGT) Subject: [Icecast] Query related to icecast server version 2.3.2 Message-ID: <1368865480.58977.YahooMailNeo@web2701.biz.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> Dear Sir/Madam, I'm a newbie to work at icecast server. My required application is to play songs through different channels(approximately 100) at the icecast server with source client. I gone through the link www.icecast.org , and got some idea related to my requirement. And also i have gone through a video for streaming audio in icecast server and tried with the same. Almost i got it with the combination of icecast server, butt and ffmp3 player by watching that video, but at the final stage i couldn't able to stream the playlist, some problem with source client i guess. Now i just want to know the prerequisites packages mentioned under documents section in the link and those packages are given below: " libxml2 - http://xmlsoft.org/downloads.html libxslt - http://xmlsoft.org/XSLT/downloads.html curl - http://curl.haxx.se/download.html (>= version 7.10 required)" These prerequisites packages how it is related to icecast server. Please do reply asap, it is appreciated. ? Thanks and Regards H.DEVI SHREE BNA Technology Consulting Ltd. Bangalore. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thomas at ruecker.fi Sat May 18 08:48:40 2013 From: thomas at ruecker.fi (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Thomas_B=2E_R=FCcker=22?=) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 08:48:40 +0000 Subject: [Icecast] Query related to icecast server version 2.3.2 In-Reply-To: <1368865480.58977.YahooMailNeo@web2701.biz.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> References: <1368865480.58977.YahooMailNeo@web2701.biz.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <51974068.1070103@ruecker.fi> Hi, please note that the strongly preferred email format is plain text on mailing lists such as this. It makes reading and answering much easier. Thanks. On 05/18/2013 08:24 AM, H.DEVI SHREE wrote: > I'm a newbie to work at icecast server. Then please make sure you've read and understood the documentation at: http://icecast.org/docs/icecast-2.3.2/ > My required application is to play songs through different > channels(approximately 100) at the icecast server with source client. That should be no problem at all for Icecast to handle. I know of instances that have >1000 streams. > I gone through the link www.icecast.org , and got some idea related to > my requirement. And also i have gone through a video for streaming > audio in icecast server and tried with the same. Almost i got it with > the combination of icecast server, butt and ffmp3 player by watching > that video, but at the final stage i couldn't able to stream the > playlist, some problem with source client i guess. It's hard to guess what's going wrong. But I'd suggest to examine the logs and output for all of the involved applications. In case of Icecast check error.log and also check if the stream is listed on the web interface. If it doesn't appear, then it's not connected (except when 'hidden' was explicitly set). > Now i just want to know the prerequisites packages mentioned under > documents section in the link and those packages are given below: > > " libxml2 - http://xmlsoft.org/downloads.html > libxslt - http://xmlsoft.org/XSLT/downloads.html > curl - http://curl.haxx.se/download.html (>= version 7.10 required)" > > These prerequisites packages how it is related to icecast server. Please do reply asap, it is appreciated. You say that you have Icecast already running. That would mean, that those are of no concern to you. If you don't have Icecast installed, then yes, those are required, but should be automatically satisfied if you install a distribution package. Which again would mean, that the above is of no concern to you. Please refer to this page for further details about installing a distribution package: http://icecast.org/download.php#binary_packages Should you have more questions, please send them to the mailing list. Thanks. Thomas B. Ruecker From leighrodney at globeteck.com Mon May 27 03:52:42 2013 From: leighrodney at globeteck.com (Leigh Rodney) Date: Sun, 26 May 2013 23:52:42 -0400 Subject: [Icecast] configure: error: C++ preprocessor "/lib/cpp" fails sanity check Message-ID: [root at localhost IceCast]# cd libvorbis [root at localhost libvorbis]# ./configure checking for a BSD-compatible install... /usr/bin/install -c checking whether build environment is sane... yes checking whether make sets $(MAKE)... yes checking for working aclocal-1.4... missing checking for working autoconf... missing checking for working automake-1.4... missing checking for working autoheader... missing checking for working makeinfo... missing checking whether to enable maintainer-specific portions of Makefiles... no checking for gcc... gcc checking for C compiler default output file name... a.out checking whether the C compiler works... yes checking whether we are cross compiling... no checking for suffix of executables... checking for suffix of object files... o checking whether we are using the GNU C compiler... yes checking whether gcc accepts -g... yes checking for gcc option to accept ANSI C... none needed checking how to run the C preprocessor... gcc -E checking build system type... x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu checking host system type... x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu checking for a sed that does not truncate output... /bin/sed checking for egrep... grep -E checking for ld used by gcc... /usr/bin/ld checking if the linker (/usr/bin/ld) is GNU ld... yes checking for /usr/bin/ld option to reload object files... -r checking for BSD-compatible nm... /usr/bin/nm -B checking whether ln -s works... yes checking how to recognise dependent libraries... pass_all checking for ANSI C header files... yes checking for sys/types.h... yes checking for sys/stat.h... yes checking for stdlib.h... yes checking for string.h... yes checking for memory.h... yes checking for strings.h... yes checking for inttypes.h... yes checking for stdint.h... yes checking for unistd.h... yes checking dlfcn.h usability... yes checking dlfcn.h presence... yes checking for dlfcn.h... yes checking for g++... no checking for c++... no checking for gpp... no checking for aCC... no checking for CC... no checking for cxx... no checking for cc++... no checking for cl... no checking for FCC... no checking for KCC... no checking for RCC... no checking for xlC_r... no checking for xlC... no checking whether we are using the GNU C++ compiler... no checking whether g++ accepts -g... no checking how to run the C++ preprocessor... /lib/cpp configure: error: C++ preprocessor "/lib/cpp" fails sanity check See `config.log' for more details. [root at localhost libvorbis]# -- Thanks Leigh Rodney Founder/ Systems Administrator leighrodney at globeteck.com (347) 838-2648 Office (866) 657-7227 Toll Free (866) 591-8747 Fax www.globeteck.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: libvorbis.zip Type: application/zip Size: 1378623 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: config.log Type: text/x-makefile Size: 6632 bytes Desc: not available URL: From thomas at ruecker.fi Mon May 27 05:28:48 2013 From: thomas at ruecker.fi (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Thomas_B=2E_R=FCcker=22?=) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 05:28:48 +0000 Subject: [Icecast] configure: error: C++ preprocessor "/lib/cpp" fails sanity check In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51A2EF10.8040404@ruecker.fi> On 05/27/2013 03:52 AM, Leigh Rodney wrote: > configure: error: C++ preprocessor "/lib/cpp" fails sanity check Well, there's your problem as you correctly guessed. As you don't give any additional information I can only speculate. Please check, that your build environment is set up properly, especially g++. Refer to your distribution's documentation for that. Also note, that there are Icecast packages for most popular distributions readily available, so usually there's no need to compile it from source. Cheers Thomas PS: please subscribe to the mailing list to ensure you receive the whole discussion and your mails don't get held up in moderation. From thomas at ruecker.fi Mon May 27 06:21:06 2013 From: thomas at ruecker.fi (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Thomas_B=2E_R=FCcker=22?=) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 06:21:06 +0000 Subject: [Icecast] configure: error: C++ preprocessor "/lib/cpp" fails sanity check Message-ID: <51A2FB52.7000108@ruecker.fi> On 05/27/2013 05:51 AM, Leigh Rodney wrote: > > Do you know which icecast package to use for Centos 6 x86_64 > > that would be 'icecast' from the EPEL repository. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL#How_can_I_use_these_extra_packages.3F Cheers Thomas -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From devi at bnaindia.com Tue May 28 08:49:40 2013 From: devi at bnaindia.com (H.DEVI SHREE) Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 16:49:40 +0800 (SGT) Subject: [Icecast] Query related to icecast server v2.3.2 Message-ID: <1369730980.72465.YahooMailNeo@web2706.biz.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> Hi Sir, ?Thanks for your immediate reply. ?I have checked all the logs and outputs for the same application as ?you have suggested. In error.log file, it shows the error as listed below: ?[2013-05-28? 10:54:12] INFO fserve/fserve.c checking for file /stream ?(./web/stream) ?[2013-05-28? 10:54:12] WARN fserve/fserve.c found requested file but ?there is no handler for it: ./web/stream ?But i have created the file namely "Stream" and the directory is shown ?below; ?C:\Program Files\Icecast2.3.2 Win32\web\stream ?Inside stream folder, i have created the playlist(mp3 file type) to ?stream songs from the same. And sharing option for this folder is ?enabled. ?Please let me know whether i am missing any step or any corrections in ?the steps whatever i have done before. ? Thanks and Regards H.DEVI SHREE BNA Technology Consulting Ltd. Bangalore. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mlrsmith at gmail.com Tue May 28 17:00:38 2013 From: mlrsmith at gmail.com (Michael Smith) Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 10:00:38 -0700 Subject: [Icecast] Query related to icecast server v2.3.2 In-Reply-To: <1369730980.72465.YahooMailNeo@web2706.biz.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> References: <1369730980.72465.YahooMailNeo@web2706.biz.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi, It appears that you've completely misunderstood what icecast does. If you want to create a stream based on a set of input files, you need a source client - there are many of those available, you should investigate and pick one. Mike On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 1:49 AM, H.DEVI SHREE wrote: > > Hi Sir, > > Thanks for your immediate reply. > > I have checked all the logs and outputs for the same application as > you have suggested. In error.log file, it shows the error as listed below: > > [2013-05-28 10:54:12] INFO fserve/fserve.c checking for file /stream > (./web/stream) > [2013-05-28 10:54:12] WARN fserve/fserve.c found requested file but > there is no handler for it: ./web/stream > > > But i have created the file namely "Stream" and the directory is shown > below; > > C:\Program Files\Icecast2.3.2 Win32\web\stream > > Inside stream folder, i have created the playlist(mp3 file type) to > stream songs from the same. And sharing option for this folder is > enabled. > > Please let me know whether i am missing any step or any corrections in > the steps whatever i have done before. > > > > Thanks and Regards > > H.DEVI SHREE > BNA Technology Consulting Ltd. > Bangalore. > > > _______________________________________________ > Icecast mailing list > Icecast at xiph.org > http://lists.xiph.org/mailman/listinfo/icecast > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From edsoares110 at gmail.com Wed May 29 07:04:02 2013 From: edsoares110 at gmail.com (Edson) Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 11:34:02 +0430 Subject: Lista aprovados Jequiá da Praia Message-ID: <13698271309da7fa20774a90c257c53e460eea8866@gmail.com> Lista aprovados Jequi? da Praia: Tesouro: ANA CLEIDE PEREIRA DE VASCONCELOS, LUAN MARINHO DE SOUZA, FRANCISCO LEANDRO FIUSA DA SILVA, PEDRO HENRIQUE ARAUJO SANTIAGO, JO?O CARLOS MOREIRA DE CARVALHO, DANIEL DA CUNHA MAGALHAES, MARIA IVANI DE ARA?JO, JEANNIE PAULO DE SOUSA. SILVANA GALDINO FERREIRA, AUGUSTO BRUNO PEREIRA DOS SANTOS, LUCIANA ESTELITA LAFAYETTE RABELO, GRACY KELLY DE LIMA MORAIS, REJANE CRISTINA SANTOS DE OLIVEIRA. Olho d`?gua das Cunh?s. Jequi? da Praia, ANA PAULA RODRIGUES DA SILVA, LUCAS ARAUJO GOMES FROTA, GABRIEL VICTOR BARROS FORTE DA SILVA, QUIT?RIA DA SILVA G?IS, JO?O CARLOS MOREIRA DE CARVALHO, DAYANA MARIA DE SOUSA TAVARES, MARIA JULIENE CORDEIRO, JO?O PAULO DA SILVA. TALITA FERNANDES GONCALVES, BRUNO RAMOS FERNANDES, LUIZ HENRIQUE ALVES DAMASCENO, IAGO DA SILVA NOBRE, RITA ANGELA DA SILVA. Capin?polis. Planalto e ANA CAROLINE LIMA VASCONCELOS, L?VIO CHAVES D?D?, FRANCISCO JACKSON DE FREITAS SOUZA, PAULO WILLAME ARAUJO DE LIMA, JO?O CARLOS MOREIRA DE CARVALHO, DAMI?O ROCHA DOS SANTOS J?NIOR, MARIA HELENA DE OLIVEIRA SILVA, JARDEL DE LIMA NOBRE. SILVANA BEZERRA DA SILVA, ARIELA DE MACEDO RICARDO, LUCAS PINTO ASSUNCAO, GLAUCIO VALENCA PEREIRA RANGEL, REBECA FARIAS CARNEIRO. Morro Agudo de Goi?s. From sylvain at dailytlj.com Thu May 30 23:34:38 2013 From: sylvain at dailytlj.com (Sylvain Le Beux) Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 19:34:38 -0400 Subject: [Icecast] About latency, PCM and clients compliance Message-ID: <51A7E20E.1090003@dailytlj.com> Hi all, I am recently using icecast from server streaming, and even though I succeeding setting everything up to have a radio broadcast, I still have a few questions regarding icecast use. First, latency. I have a setup on a LAN, where I can add audio files to the stream, with a python script that automatically send the location of the file to be played continuously. I wanted to measure the latency from the moment when I sent ices2 a sound file, and the time it is being played. With a clean refresh of my firefox, I experienced a latency of app. 15 secs. That's what I was expecting, but is it possible to reduce this latency further. Furthermore, must annoyingly, since the stream is playing continuously, when I send new file to be played, the latency grows as the time goes. I was able to measure latencies up to 1:30 or more after 20-30 mins of continous playing. Is that normal, or is there some parameter to set up in order to avoir this behavior. Related to this, I read that it's possible to send directly raw PCM to icecast when live streaming from the audio card input. Is it possible to send raw PCM files to icecast in the same way ? I haven't find any relevant information on this point. It would be neat, since I use of software that outputs raw PCM files, but I need to convert them to ogg before sending them to ices. As I understand it, if sent PCM audio, icecast achieves the conversion on its own, so I wonder also if it reduces latency to send it raw PCM or does not make much difference. Last thing, what are the requirements in terms of clients. It seems not all browsers react in the same way, same with audio players. Is there a spec list of which software versions are needed to listen to latest icecast2/ices2 streams. Sorry for adding my fuzzy thoughts altogether. Cheers Sylvain From lion at lion.leolix.org Fri May 31 10:41:45 2013 From: lion at lion.leolix.org (Philipp Schafft) Date: Fri, 31 May 2013 12:41:45 +0200 Subject: [Icecast] About latency, PCM and clients compliance In-Reply-To: <51A7E20E.1090003@dailytlj.com> References: <51A7E20E.1090003@dailytlj.com> Message-ID: <20130531104147.D9E2B7A267@priderock.keep-cool.org> reflum, On Thu, 2013-05-30 at 19:34 -0400, Sylvain Le Beux wrote: > Hi all, > > I am recently using icecast from server streaming, and even though I > succeeding setting everything up to have a radio broadcast, I still have > a few questions regarding icecast use. > First, latency. I have a setup on a LAN, where I can add audio files to > the stream, with a python script that automatically send the location of > the file to be played continuously. I wanted to measure the latency from > the moment when I sent ices2 a sound file, and the time it is being played. > With a clean refresh of my firefox, I experienced a latency of app. 15 > secs. That's what I was expecting, but is it possible to reduce this > latency further. > Furthermore, must annoyingly, since the stream is playing continuously, > when I send new file to be played, the latency grows as the time goes. I > was able to measure latencies up to 1:30 or more after 20-30 mins of > continous playing. Is that normal, or is there some parameter to set up > in order to avoir this behavior. I'm not understanding your setup fully. The latency can change because the clocks are not in sync. If you continue ti listen a stream the clock of the source and the clock of your sound card will drift and that can result in higher latency. 1.5 min per 30 min is just 5%. I think there may be some other problems as well but I have seen cheap (audio) clocks drifting by 5%. > Related to this, I read that it's possible to send directly raw PCM to > icecast when live streaming from the audio card input. Is it possible to > send raw PCM files to icecast in the same way ? I haven't find any > relevant information on this point. It would be neat, since I use of > software that outputs raw PCM files, but I need to convert them to ogg > before sending them to ices. As I understand it, if sent PCM audio, > icecast achieves the conversion on its own, so I wonder also if it > reduces latency to send it raw PCM or does not make much difference. Icecast doesn't support PCM support (maybe OggPCM, but that would at minimum be *very* experimental and not supported by *any* client). You can stream Ogg/FLAC with icecast. I don't know how that will change the latency. Also this is not supported by many clients. If I want to send uncompressed audio I use other software like RoarAudio. But I don't think you really want this. You will need some more software and *much* *more* bandwidth. > Last thing, what are the requirements in terms of clients. It seems not > all browsers react in the same way, same with audio players. Is there a > spec list of which software versions are needed to listen to latest > icecast2/ices2 streams. if using ices2 and icecast2 you end with a true HTTP stream (nothing special about this!) of a Ogg Vorbis file (also nothing special about this!). While the stream is /standard/ and has not changed in anyway since years players are often implemented in strange, incomplet or broken way. We (Xiph foundation in general, the icecast and the vorbis team,...) are happy to support every player vendor who is really intersted in implementing it the right way^TM. Have a nice day! -- Philipp. (Rah of PH2) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 482 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From thedarkener at logicalnetworking.net Fri May 31 14:43:35 2013 From: thedarkener at logicalnetworking.net (TheDarkener) Date: Fri, 31 May 2013 07:43:35 -0700 Subject: [Icecast] Opus vs. Vorbis Message-ID: <51A8B717.1000102@logicalnetworking.net> Hi all, I've been looking at opus lately as a replacement to vorbis and it sure seems to me that, at least on paper, it is the 'next generation' streaming codec. Has anyone been using opus as a streaming codec to Icecast? If so, how do the following general characteristics compare to vorbis? + Quality + Latency + Bandwidth + Performance (on stream client and Icecast server) + Stability Also, what use case in your setup (voice only, music, pre-recorded files vs. live input, ?) Any input is greatly appreciated. I understand there is little support (compared to vorbis, anyway) for opus, but I'm hoping to help change that at least a little bit. Cheers, Jordan -- Jordan (PGP: 0xDA470FF8) From Dennis at Heerema.net Fri May 31 15:29:33 2013 From: Dennis at Heerema.net (Dennis Heerema) Date: Fri, 31 May 2013 17:29:33 +0200 Subject: [Icecast] Opus vs. Vorbis In-Reply-To: <51A8B717.1000102@logicalnetworking.net> References: <51A8B717.1000102@logicalnetworking.net> Message-ID: <51A8C1DD.8090800@Heerema.net> Hello Jordan, I run a test stream in OPUS format. I find the quality of OPUS way better at low bitrates then VORBIS. Thus better quality at lower bitrates, but also on higher bitrates the codec sounds good. Latency is lower, but for broadcasting a radio program for me at the moment it is not that importend, so i did not test that really with icecast (i did test opus low latency but with other applications: fideliphone and teamtalk) Stream runs stable, my stream is a transcode made by Liquidsoap, from a transparent ogg vorbis stream (The reason i'm doing that is because i'm transcoing also to mp3, vorbis aacplus at different bitrates). Input is a live stream from a studio to my main icecast server, on this server i transcode with liquidsoap. Then every stream is relayed by two public icecast servers where listener clients connect to. Running this for quite a while now and it is stable for all streams. The is one downside on OPUS at the moment, there are not that much clients able to play opus, plus on track change the stream makes a little frame noticeable dropout. I do not know wheather this is cased by liquidsoap or the player. The quys from liquidsoap say it is a problem how the player implemented the opus codec (VLC). If you want, you can listen to my (dutch streams, day hours non stop music, evenings programms hosted by a announcer) streams, send my a private message and i will send you al my diffrent stream links, so you can compare. Kind regards, Dennis Op 31-5-2013 16:43, TheDarkener schreef: > Hi all, > > I've been looking at opus lately as a replacement to vorbis and it sure > seems to me that, at least on paper, it is the 'next generation' > streaming codec. Has anyone been using opus as a streaming codec to > Icecast? If so, how do the following general characteristics compare to > vorbis? > > + Quality > + Latency > + Bandwidth > + Performance (on stream client and Icecast server) > + Stability > > Also, what use case in your setup (voice only, music, pre-recorded files > vs. live input, ?) Any input is greatly appreciated. I understand there > is little support (compared to vorbis, anyway) for opus, but I'm hoping > to help change that at least a little bit. > > > Cheers, > Jordan > From thedarkener at logicalnetworking.net Fri May 31 15:52:16 2013 From: thedarkener at logicalnetworking.net (TheDarkener) Date: Fri, 31 May 2013 08:52:16 -0700 Subject: [Icecast] Opus vs. Vorbis In-Reply-To: <51A8C1DD.8090800@Heerema.net> References: <51A8B717.1000102@logicalnetworking.net> <51A8C1DD.8090800@Heerema.net> Message-ID: <51A8C730.3020003@logicalnetworking.net> Hi Dennis, Thank you very much for this info, it helps a lot! I'm curious about the track changing - I know that this currently is a semi-issue even with my own vorbis streams and some listening clients.. for example, with ffmp3 sometimes the stream will drop between tracks. I'm also curious as to the implementation of "Intro" files (and tracks/live input in general, I guess) in Opus format and if, because of the "Dynamically adjustable bitrate" ( http://opus-codec.org ), you are able to stream files/input at different bitrates without disconnection of listening clients. Cheers, Jordan On 05/31/2013 08:29 AM, Dennis Heerema wrote: > Hello Jordan, > > I run a test stream in OPUS format. > I find the quality of OPUS way better at low bitrates then VORBIS. > Thus better quality at lower bitrates, but also on higher bitrates the > codec sounds good. > > Latency is lower, but for broadcasting a radio program for me at the > moment it is not that importend, so i did not test that really with > icecast (i did test opus low latency but with other applications: > fideliphone and teamtalk) > > Stream runs stable, my stream is a transcode made by Liquidsoap, from a > transparent ogg vorbis stream (The reason i'm doing that is because i'm > transcoing also to mp3, vorbis aacplus at different bitrates). > > Input is a live stream from a studio to my main icecast server, on this > server i transcode with liquidsoap. Then every stream is relayed by two > public icecast servers where listener clients connect to. > > Running this for quite a while now and it is stable for all streams. > > The is one downside on OPUS at the moment, there are not that much > clients able to play opus, plus on track change the stream makes a > little frame noticeable dropout. I do not know wheather this is cased by > liquidsoap or the player. > > The quys from liquidsoap say it is a problem how the player implemented > the opus codec (VLC). > > If you want, you can listen to my (dutch streams, day hours non stop > music, evenings programms hosted by a announcer) streams, send my a > private message and i will send you al my diffrent stream links, so you > can compare. > > Kind regards, > > Dennis > > > > > Op 31-5-2013 16:43, TheDarkener schreef: >> Hi all, >> >> I've been looking at opus lately as a replacement to vorbis and it sure >> seems to me that, at least on paper, it is the 'next generation' >> streaming codec. Has anyone been using opus as a streaming codec to >> Icecast? If so, how do the following general characteristics compare to >> vorbis? >> >> + Quality >> + Latency >> + Bandwidth >> + Performance (on stream client and Icecast server) >> + Stability >> >> Also, what use case in your setup (voice only, music, pre-recorded files >> vs. live input, ?) Any input is greatly appreciated. I understand there >> is little support (compared to vorbis, anyway) for opus, but I'm hoping >> to help change that at least a little bit. >> >> >> Cheers, >> Jordan >> > > _______________________________________________ > Icecast mailing list > Icecast at xiph.org > http://lists.xiph.org/mailman/listinfo/icecast -- Jordan (PGP: 0xDA470FF8) From Dennis at Heerema.net Fri May 31 17:13:02 2013 From: Dennis at Heerema.net (Dennis Heerema) Date: Fri, 31 May 2013 19:13:02 +0200 Subject: [Icecast] Opus vs. Vorbis In-Reply-To: <51A8C730.3020003@logicalnetworking.net> References: <51A8B717.1000102@logicalnetworking.net> <51A8C1DD.8090800@Heerema.net> <51A8C730.3020003@logicalnetworking.net> Message-ID: <51A8DA1E.9060000@Heerema.net> Hello Jordan, The only way i use opus is with live input, so i cannot help you with the other questions, maybe other people on this list are able to answer these. Kind regards, Dennis Op 31-5-2013 17:52, TheDarkener schreef: > Hi Dennis, > > Thank you very much for this info, it helps a lot! > > I'm curious about the track changing - I know that this currently is a > semi-issue even with my own vorbis streams and some listening clients.. > for example, with ffmp3 sometimes the stream will drop between tracks. > I'm also curious as to the implementation of "Intro" files (and > tracks/live input in general, I guess) in Opus format and if, because of > the "Dynamically adjustable bitrate" ( http://opus-codec.org ), you are > able to stream files/input at different bitrates without disconnection > of listening clients. > > > Cheers, > Jordan > From sylvain at dailytlj.com Fri May 31 21:34:19 2013 From: sylvain at dailytlj.com (Sylvain Le Beux) Date: Fri, 31 May 2013 17:34:19 -0400 Subject: [Icecast] Clocks drift again Message-ID: <51A9175B.1030501@dailytlj.com> Hi All, Sorry again to bother you with this but there is really something I don't fully understand about client/server clock syncs. If I connect to the stream with a fresh browser, I can measure between 5-10 secs latency. I keep listening to it for while, and the delay between server and client grows as listening is going on. As pointed out Philipp yesterday to me, it's approximately a 5% drift, apparently caused by the client audio card clock. But, then since there are no cuts in the sound as I am listening, it means the audio rate is lower than the 22kHz of the files, right ? And a 5% drift at 22kHz is around 1kHz difference ! And even if I did not properly measured this behavior, I am not subjectively able to hear a difference in the output. So, what are the solutions for locking clocks so that the latency is constant ? Sorry if I don't understand properly. Best. Sylvain From greg at indexcom.com Fri May 31 21:59:25 2013 From: greg at indexcom.com (Greg Ogonowski) Date: Fri, 31 May 2013 14:59:25 -0700 Subject: [Icecast] Clocks drift again In-Reply-To: <51A9175B.1030501@dailytlj.com> References: <51A9175B.1030501@dailytlj.com> Message-ID: <015301ce5e4a$1e0e5650$5a2b02f0$@indexcom.com> Simple streaming is fundamentally flawed this way. "The man with two clocks, does not know what time it is." Your source is clocked from one crystal in your source sound card, and played back on the basis of the clock crystal in the client sound card. There is nothing to say or keep these crystals locked to the same exact frequency, which is REQUIRED to maintain no clock drift. Unless the player software specifically deals with modulating a sample-rate converter, which most, if any, players do not, sooner or later, the stream will either over or under buffer and cause unpredictable results. The amount of time it will take for this problem to actually occur will be determined by the difference in clock frequency between the source and client clocks. So, "your mileage will vary." There is currently no way to send synchro clock in a SHOUTcast or Icecast2 stream that I am aware of. Even if there was, the client player would need to support this specifically. The easiest way to deal with this with the current architecture, is write a player that can approximate clock recovery. This will only be an approximation, but better than nothing at all. -greg. Orban -----Original Message----- From: icecast-bounces at xiph.org [mailto:icecast-bounces at xiph.org] On Behalf Of Sylvain Le Beux Sent: Friday, 31 May, 2013 14:34 To: icecast at xiph.org Subject: [Icecast] Clocks drift again Hi All, Sorry again to bother you with this but there is really something I don't fully understand about client/server clock syncs. If I connect to the stream with a fresh browser, I can measure between 5-10 secs latency. I keep listening to it for while, and the delay between server and client grows as listening is going on. As pointed out Philipp yesterday to me, it's approximately a 5% drift, apparently caused by the client audio card clock. But, then since there are no cuts in the sound as I am listening, it means the audio rate is lower than the 22kHz of the files, right ? And a 5% drift at 22kHz is around 1kHz difference ! And even if I did not properly measured this behavior, I am not subjectively able to hear a difference in the output. So, what are the solutions for locking clocks so that the latency is constant ? Sorry if I don't understand properly. Best. Sylvain _______________________________________________ Icecast mailing list Icecast at xiph.org http://lists.xiph.org/mailman/listinfo/icecast From gagarin at mrs.net Fri May 31 16:48:24 2013 From: gagarin at mrs.net (Gagarin Miljkovich) Date: Fri, 31 May 2013 18:48:24 +0200 Subject: [Icecast] Opus vs. Vorbis In-Reply-To: <51A8C1DD.8090800@Heerema.net> References: <51A8B717.1000102@logicalnetworking.net> <51A8C1DD.8090800@Heerema.net> Message-ID: <9ca2c9f6-cd81-4a4a-9adf-41a38d95858c@email.android.com> Hello Dennis! Please send me the links to your streams. I'm interested in the audioquality. regards Gagarin M. Stockholm www.mrs.se Dennis Heerema wrote: >Hello Jordan, > >I run a test stream in OPUS format. >I find the quality of OPUS way better at low bitrates then VORBIS. >Thus better quality at lower bitrates, but also on higher bitrates the >codec sounds good. > >Latency is lower, but for broadcasting a radio program for me at the >moment it is not that importend, so i did not test that really with >icecast (i did test opus low latency but with other applications: >fideliphone and teamtalk) > >Stream runs stable, my stream is a transcode made by Liquidsoap, from a >transparent ogg vorbis stream (The reason i'm doing that is because i'm >transcoing also to mp3, vorbis aacplus at different bitrates). > >Input is a live stream from a studio to my main icecast server, on this >server i transcode with liquidsoap. Then every stream is relayed by two >public icecast servers where listener clients connect to. > >Running this for quite a while now and it is stable for all streams. > >The is one downside on OPUS at the moment, there are not that much >clients able to play opus, plus on track change the stream makes a >little frame noticeable dropout. I do not know wheather this is cased >by >liquidsoap or the player. > >The quys from liquidsoap say it is a problem how the player implemented >the opus codec (VLC). > >If you want, you can listen to my (dutch streams, day hours non stop >music, evenings programms hosted by a announcer) streams, send my a >private message and i will send you al my diffrent stream links, so you >can compare. > >Kind regards, > >Dennis > > > > >Op 31-5-2013 16:43, TheDarkener schreef: >> Hi all, >> >> I've been looking at opus lately as a replacement to vorbis and it >sure >> seems to me that, at least on paper, it is the 'next generation' >> streaming codec. Has anyone been using opus as a streaming codec to >> Icecast? If so, how do the following general characteristics compare >to >> vorbis? >> >> + Quality >> + Latency >> + Bandwidth >> + Performance (on stream client and Icecast server) >> + Stability >> >> Also, what use case in your setup (voice only, music, pre-recorded >files >> vs. live input, ?) Any input is greatly appreciated. I understand >there >> is little support (compared to vorbis, anyway) for opus, but I'm >hoping >> to help change that at least a little bit. >> >> >> Cheers, >> Jordan >> > > >_______________________________________________ >Icecast mailing list >Icecast at xiph.org >http://lists.xiph.org/mailman/listinfo/icecast -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: