From eric at persson.tm Tue Oct 2 15:35:07 2001 From: eric at persson.tm (Eric Persson) Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2001 08:35:07 -0700 Subject: [icecast] Ices dies Message-ID: <3BB9DEAB.61308345@persson.tm> Hi ! Im using ices to send streams through icecast. But there is a problem. Ices dies and stops sending data after various hours of playing. Since ices is feeded with songs through a perlscript the songs should never stop coming. My guess is that it dies when no listeners are connected. But I cant see why, and I dont like pushing play all the time. =) This is what my icecast.log says at the end. [01/Oct/2001:18:04:23] [113:Source Thread] Lost connection to source on mount /ices, waiting 30 seconds for timeout [01/Oct/2001:18:04:53] [113:Source Thread] Kicking source 109 [127.0.0.1] [Client timeout exceeded, removing source] [encoder], connected for 3 hours, 58 minutes and 17 seconds, 871954 bytes transfered. 0 sources connected [01/Oct/2001:18:04:53] [113:Source Thread] Kicking all 1 clients for source 109 [01/Oct/2001:18:04:53] [113:Source Thread] Kicking client 150 [127.0.0.1] [Stream ended] [listener], connected for 1 hours, 52 minutes and 1 seconds, 122667008 bytes transfered. 0 clients connected To start everything up I created a small script. [root at localhost icecast]# more play.sh echo "Starting stream....\n"; bin/icecast -c etc/icecast.conf -b bin/ices -S perl -n ComuniCadio -P icecom -B When I run this I get this... [root at localhost icecast]# ./play.sh Starting stream....\n [02/Oct/2001:08:36:46] No configfile found, using defaults. Icecast Version 1.3.11 Initializing... Icecast comes with NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law. You may redistribute copies of Icecast under the terms of the GNU General Public License. For more information about these matters, see the file named COPYING. Starting thread engine... [02/Oct/2001:08:36:46] Icecast Version 1.3.11 Starting.. Into the land of the dreaded daemons we go... (pid: 16568) ./play.sh: line 3: 16567 Segmentation fault (core dumped) bin/ices -S perl -n ComuniCadio -P icecom -B The strange thing is the seg fault on line 3. Anyway everything starts just fine, so I dont get the error message. But it might have something to with the "dieing". Any help, hints would be appreciated... Eric --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From alet at unice.fr Tue Oct 2 16:09:19 2001 From: alet at unice.fr (Jerome Alet) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 18:09:19 +0200 Subject: [icecast] dumping sources automatically Message-ID: <20011002180919.B466@nordine.ateur> Hi, is it possible to save source streams automatically to files on the server with some icecast.conf setting or is it only doable using the telnet admin interface during the source upload ? thanks in advance. Jerome Alet --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From cccomputer at c4.com Thu Oct 4 09:04:19 2001 From: cccomputer at c4.com (CC Computer Consulting Co.) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 09:04:19 Subject: [icecast] THE MAIL KING - ah13 Message-ID: <20011004160200.9E26A18D015@motherfish.xiph.org> IF YOU USE DIRECT MAIL IN YOUR BUSINESS -- THEN READ ON. OTHERWISE, JUST DELETE THIS MESSAGE. Make Every Letter Count - Get Every Letter Opened! Did you know?? According to experts, today's deluged direct mail recipient throws away 26% to 88% of all their "junk mail" UNOPENED! Would you like to increase your responses by an average of 3 to 6 times?? If you would (and who wouldn't) just REPLY to this message and we will e-mail you more details. CC Computer Consulting Co. PS: If you prefer a response by "snail mail", include your name and mailing address in your reply. **************************************** This email is sent in compliance with our strict anti-abuse regulations. This is not SPAM. This message was sent to you because you, or someone using your email address, requested information, sent or posted to our system, Opt-in, FFA site, Classifieds, web site or email box If you would like to be removed from this list, e-mail to or click on: Remove at cccomputer.zzn.com *************************************** ah13 --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From alet at unice.fr Fri Oct 5 08:27:12 2001 From: alet at unice.fr (Jerome Alet) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 10:27:12 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: [icecast] default stream Message-ID: Hi, Two questions: I wondered if there's a solution for an icecast 1.3.11 server to automatically play a static stream by default (a welcome message announcing future streams) whenever someone connects to / without needing any source. The solution I use is to launch shout as a source and make it loop over this welcome message, but I find this not optimal because most of the time there's no listener. Is there anything better, maybe with aliases ? Is there a way to verify the quality of the transmission or benchmark it without having to listen to the stream and optionnally produce a graph showing transmission errors: ideally I'd want to simulate a number of simultaneous listeners. I've tried with ab but is it really the same as listeners like mpg123 or winamp ? I have to be sure that a certain number of clients can listen from another point in our wan. I wanted to search the mailing list archive but this doesn't seem to work. thanks in advance for any help. Jerome Alet - alet at unice.fr - http://cortex.unice.fr/~jerome Fac de Medecine de Nice http://wwwmed.unice.fr Tel: (+33) 4 93 37 76 30 Fax: (+33) 4 93 53 15 15 28 Avenue de Valombrose - 06107 NICE Cedex 2 - FRANCE --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From lsy at munkynet.org Fri Oct 5 19:37:47 2001 From: lsy at munkynet.org (Samuel Hathaway) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 15:37:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [icecast] DarkIce 0.6 and Lame 3.89: underlying sink error Message-ID: Hey, I've compiled DarkIce 0.6 dynamically linked to LAME 3.89. I'm running Slackware 8 and using gcc 2.95.3. Running DarkIce yields the following output: DarkIce 0.5 live audio streamer, http://darkice.sourceforge.net Copyright (c) 2000-2001, Tyrell Hungary, http://tyrell.hu Using config file: darkice.cfg Using POSIX real-time scheduling, priority 98 LAME version 3.89 (beta 1, Oct 2 2001) (http://www.mp3dev.org/) Using polyphase lowpass filter, transition band: 8002 Hz - 8535 Hz DarkIce: LameLibEncoder.cpp:194: lame lib opening underlying sink error [0] This also happens with DarkIce 0.5. Any ideas on how to fix this? Thanks in advance. -samuel --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From lsy at munkynet.org Fri Oct 5 19:43:15 2001 From: lsy at munkynet.org (Samuel Hathaway) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 15:43:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [icecast] Re: DarkIce 0.6 and Lame 3.89: underlying sink error In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Oct 2001, Samuel Hathaway wrote: > Hey, > > I've compiled DarkIce 0.6 dynamically linked to LAME 3.89. I'm running > Slackware 8 and using gcc 2.95.3. Running DarkIce yields the following > output: > > DarkIce 0.5 live audio streamer, http://darkice.sourceforge.net Actually, that's DarkIce 0.5's output. DarkIce 0.6 says: DarkIce 0.6 live audio streamer, http://darkice.sourceforge.net Copyright (c) 2000-2001, Tyrell Hungary, http://tyrell.hu Using config file: darkice.cfg Using POSIX real-time scheduling, priority 98 LAME version 3.89 (beta 1, Oct 2 2001) (http://www.mp3dev.org/) Using polyphase lowpass filter, transition band: 8002 Hz - 8535 Hz DarkIce: LameLibEncoder.cpp:188: lame lib opening underlying sink error [0] > This also happens with DarkIce 0.5. Any ideas on how to fix this? > > Thanks in advance. > -samuel --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From Matt at cmitech.com Fri Oct 5 22:30:51 2001 From: Matt at cmitech.com (Matthew Mencel) Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 17:30:51 -0500 Subject: [icecast] Attn: darkeye@tyrell.hu RE: Darkice Message-ID: You helped me a few weeks ago setup DarkIce. Well I had nothing but problems doing it on RH62 so... here I am again but this time armed with RH71. I followed your instructions for installing lame and ogg vorbis and it's all fine. When I tr to install DarkIce though I get the following error. # make make all-recursive make[1]: Entering directory `/usr/src/download/darkice-0.6' Making all in src make[2]: Entering directory `/usr/src/download/darkice-0.6/src' c++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I.. -O2 -Wall -c DarkIce.cpp In file included from DarkIce.cpp:79: VorbisLibEncoder.h:46:2: #error need vorbis/vorbisenc.h make[2]: *** [DarkIce.o] Error 1 make[2]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/download/darkice-0.6/src' make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1 make[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/download/darkice-0.6' make: *** [all-recursive-am] Error 2 Missing the vorbisenc.h file? Thanks for your help. Matt --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From matt at techminer.net Sat Oct 6 02:43:52 2001 From: matt at techminer.net (Matt & Stephanie Mencel) Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 21:43:52 -0500 Subject: [icecast] DarkIce make problem Message-ID: Using RH71. Got Lame, Vorbis, gcc3 and everything installed. When I try to make DarkIce I get this error. Can anyone help? $ make make all-recursive make[1]: Entering directory `/usr/src/download/darkice-0.6' Making all in src make[2]: Entering directory `/usr/src/download/darkice-0.6/src' c++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I.. -O2 -Wall -c DarkIce.cpp In file included from DarkIce.cpp:79: VorbisLibEncoder.h:46:2: #error need vorbis/vorbisenc.h make[2]: *** [DarkIce.o] Error 1 make[2]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/download/darkice-0.6/src' make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1 make[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/download/darkice-0.6' make: *** [all-recursive-am] Error 2 Thanks, Matt --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From lsy at munkynet.org Sat Oct 6 03:25:26 2001 From: lsy at munkynet.org (Samuel Hathaway) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 23:25:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [icecast] DarkIce make problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Oct 2001, Matt & Stephanie Mencel wrote: > Using RH71. Got Lame, Vorbis, gcc3 and everything installed. When I try to > make DarkIce I get this error. Can anyone help? > > $ make > make all-recursive > make[1]: Entering directory `/usr/src/download/darkice-0.6' > Making all in src > make[2]: Entering directory `/usr/src/download/darkice-0.6/src' > c++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I.. -O2 -Wall -c DarkIce.cpp > In file included from DarkIce.cpp:79: > VorbisLibEncoder.h:46:2: #error need vorbis/vorbisenc.h > make[2]: *** [DarkIce.o] Error 1 > make[2]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/download/darkice-0.6/src' > make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1 > make[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/download/darkice-0.6' > make: *** [all-recursive-am] Error 2 Are you sure you've done `make install' for lame, libogg, and libvorbis? When you run ./configure, you should get the following lines: checking for ogg_stream_init in -logg... yes checking for vorbis_info_init in -lvorbis... yes checking for vorbis_encode_init in -lvorbisenc... yes checking for lame_init in -lmp3lame... yes If any of these say "no" rather than yes, then the build process won't be able to find your libs for that package. I got this error when I forgot to run `make install' on libvorbis... -samuel --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From matt at techminer.net Sat Oct 6 03:35:34 2001 From: matt at techminer.net (Matt & Stephanie Mencel) Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 22:35:34 -0500 Subject: [icecast] DarkIce make problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Nevermind...had to run make distclean...then it worked. -----Original Message----- From: owner-icecast at xiph.org [mailto:owner-icecast at xiph.org]On Behalf Of Matt & Stephanie Mencel Sent: Friday, October 05, 2001 9:44 PM To: icecast at xiph.org Subject: [icecast] DarkIce make problem Using RH71. Got Lame, Vorbis, gcc3 and everything installed. When I try to make DarkIce I get this error. Can anyone help? $ make make all-recursive make[1]: Entering directory `/usr/src/download/darkice-0.6' Making all in src make[2]: Entering directory `/usr/src/download/darkice-0.6/src' c++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I.. -O2 -Wall -c DarkIce.cpp In file included from DarkIce.cpp:79: VorbisLibEncoder.h:46:2: #error need vorbis/vorbisenc.h make[2]: *** [DarkIce.o] Error 1 make[2]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/download/darkice-0.6/src' make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1 make[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/download/darkice-0.6' make: *** [all-recursive-am] Error 2 Thanks, Matt --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From matt at techminer.net Sat Oct 6 03:45:48 2001 From: matt at techminer.net (Matt & Stephanie Mencel) Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 22:45:48 -0500 Subject: [icecast] DarkIce make problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Yea, I figured it out...brain fart on my part. Got it working, but getting some sort of TCPSocket error now... still trying. :) [root at jabez etc]# darkice -c /usr/local/etc/darkice.cfg DarkIce 0.6 live audio streamer, http://darkice.sourceforge.net Copyright (c) 2000-2001, Tyrell Hungary, http://tyrell.hu Using config file: /usr/local/etc/darkice.cfg Using POSIX real-time scheduling, priority 98 LAME version 3.89 (beta 1, Oct 5 2001) (http://www.mp3dev.org/) Using polyphase lowpass filter, transition band: 3645 Hz - 3912 Hz DarkIce: TcpSocket.cpp:212: connect error [111] [root at jabez etc]# --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From matt at techminer.net Mon Oct 8 04:32:29 2001 From: matt at techminer.net (Matt & Stephanie Mencel) Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 23:32:29 -0500 Subject: [icecast] Re: DarkIce 0.6 and Lame 3.89: underlying sink error In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Samuel, I had the same problem. I think it's because the port in darkice does not match the port icecast or shoutcast is listening on. I thought it was 8000 but it was actually 8001. Check that. Matt -----Original Message----- From: owner-icecast at xiph.org [mailto:owner-icecast at xiph.org]On Behalf Of Samuel Hathaway Sent: Friday, October 05, 2001 2:43 PM To: icecast at xiph.org Cc: darkeye at users.sourceforge.net Subject: [icecast] Re: DarkIce 0.6 and Lame 3.89: underlying sink error On Fri, 5 Oct 2001, Samuel Hathaway wrote: > Hey, > > I've compiled DarkIce 0.6 dynamically linked to LAME 3.89. I'm running > Slackware 8 and using gcc 2.95.3. Running DarkIce yields the following > output: > > DarkIce 0.5 live audio streamer, http://darkice.sourceforge.net Actually, that's DarkIce 0.5's output. DarkIce 0.6 says: DarkIce 0.6 live audio streamer, http://darkice.sourceforge.net Copyright (c) 2000-2001, Tyrell Hungary, http://tyrell.hu Using config file: darkice.cfg Using POSIX real-time scheduling, priority 98 LAME version 3.89 (beta 1, Oct 2 2001) (http://www.mp3dev.org/) Using polyphase lowpass filter, transition band: 8002 Hz - 8535 Hz DarkIce: LameLibEncoder.cpp:188: lame lib opening underlying sink error [0] > This also happens with DarkIce 0.5. Any ideas on how to fix this? > > Thanks in advance. > -samuel --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From darkeye at tyrell.hu Mon Oct 8 11:13:32 2001 From: darkeye at tyrell.hu (Akos Maroy) Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 14:13:32 +0300 Subject: [icecast] Attn: darkeye@tyrell.hu RE: Darkice In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3BC18A5C.5090805@tyrell.hu> Matthew Mencel wrote: > You helped me a few weeks ago setup DarkIce. Well I had nothing but problems doing it on RH62 so... here I am again but this time armed with RH71. I followed your instructions for installing lame and ogg vorbis and it's all fine. When I tr to install DarkIce though I get the following error. > > # make > make all-recursive > make[1]: Entering directory `/usr/src/download/darkice-0.6' > Making all in src > make[2]: Entering directory `/usr/src/download/darkice-0.6/src' > c++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I.. -O2 -Wall -c DarkIce.cpp > In file included from DarkIce.cpp:79: > VorbisLibEncoder.h:46:2: #error need vorbis/vorbisenc.h > make[2]: *** [DarkIce.o] Error 1 > make[2]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/download/darkice-0.6/src' > make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1 > make[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/download/darkice-0.6' > make: *** [all-recursive-am] Error 2 > > > Missing the vorbisenc.h file? Thanks for your help. Yes :) It should be in /usr/include/vorbis/vorbisenc.h --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From darkeye at tyrell.hu Mon Oct 8 11:15:08 2001 From: darkeye at tyrell.hu (Akos Maroy) Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 14:15:08 +0300 Subject: [icecast] DarkIce make problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3BC18ABC.4020304@tyrell.hu> Matt & Stephanie Mencel wrote: > Yea, I figured it out...brain fart on my part. Got it working, but getting > some sort of TCPSocket error now... still trying. :) > > > > [root at jabez etc]# darkice -c /usr/local/etc/darkice.cfg > DarkIce 0.6 live audio streamer, http://darkice.sourceforge.net > Copyright (c) 2000-2001, Tyrell Hungary, http://tyrell.hu > > Using config file: /usr/local/etc/darkice.cfg > Using POSIX real-time scheduling, priority 98 > LAME version 3.89 (beta 1, Oct 5 2001) (http://www.mp3dev.org/) > Using polyphase lowpass filter, transition band: 3645 Hz - 3912 Hz > DarkIce: TcpSocket.cpp:212: connect error [111] > [root at jabez etc]# this means that the tcp connect() call has failed to the server. Please check the server host name and port in the config file... --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From alet at unice.fr Mon Oct 8 14:28:55 2001 From: alet at unice.fr (Jerome Alet) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 16:28:55 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: [icecast] insecure html templates Message-ID: Hi, the default html templates for icecast 1.3.11 from Debian reveals pathnames on the server, e.g. the directory from which static files are streamed. Not sure if this is the case with the original version's templates, however. the templates causing problem are those accessible from list.cgi : list_directory.html mountlist.html list.cgi is accessible even with web administration disabled, and by default it shouldn't reveal servers paths IMHO. hth. PS: does somebody has a searchable or downloadable mail archive ? Jerome Alet - alet at unice.fr - http://cortex.unice.fr/~jerome Fac de Medecine de Nice http://wwwmed.unice.fr Tel: (+33) 4 93 37 76 30 Fax: (+33) 4 93 53 15 15 28 Avenue de Valombrose - 06107 NICE Cedex 2 - FRANCE --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From Matt at cmitech.com Mon Oct 8 15:27:34 2001 From: Matt at cmitech.com (Matthew Mencel) Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 10:27:34 -0500 Subject: [icecast] Run liveice as a background process... Message-ID: I want to run liveice when the RH71 server boots up. I cannot seem to get it right though. This is what I have tried to do... In /etc/rc.d/rc.local /usr/local/icecast/bin/liveice & This is failing though. Is anyone else out there successfully starting liveice as a background process? How have you been able to do it? Thanks, Matt --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From wildbill at kpig.com Mon Oct 8 15:43:44 2001 From: wildbill at kpig.com (William Goldsmith) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 08:43:44 -0700 Subject: [icecast] Run liveice as a background process... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1f1101c15010$0393ef10$6a00000a@laptop> That will run liveice as root. If that's what you want, then this ought to work: /usr/local/icecast/bin/liveice >/dev/null 2>/dev/null & As a rule, it's probably better to run it as a non-root user (though I'm not aware of any specific security concerns with liveice). If you've been running it as root, you'll need to chown -R the hidden temp files directory (in the same dir as liveice). Hope that helps -bg > I want to run liveice when the RH71 server boots up. I cannot seem to get it right though. This is what I have tried to do... > > In /etc/rc.d/rc.local > /usr/local/icecast/bin/liveice & > > This is failing though. Is anyone else out there successfully starting liveice as a background process? How have you been able to do it? > > > Thanks, > Matt > > > --- >8 ---- > List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ > icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ > To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' > containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. > Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. > --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From Matt at cmitech.com Mon Oct 8 15:44:16 2001 From: Matt at cmitech.com (Matthew Mencel) Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 10:44:16 -0500 Subject: [icecast] Run liveice as a background process... In-Reply-To: <[icecast] Run liveice as a background process...> Message-ID: Tried running it as non root user but something about the user not having access to the /dev/dsp audio device. I've got to give the user the ability to use that device? Thanks for the help. Matt >>> wildbill at kpig.com 10/8/01 10:43:44 AM >>> That will run liveice as root. If that's what you want, then this ought to work: /usr/local/icecast/bin/liveice >/dev/null 2>/dev/null & As a rule, it's probably better to run it as a non-root user (though I'm not aware of any specific security concerns with liveice). If you've been running it as root, you'll need to chown -R the hidden temp files directory (in the same dir as liveice). Hope that helps -bg > I want to run liveice when the RH71 server boots up. I cannot seem to get it right though. This is what I have tried to do... > > In /etc/rc.d/rc.local > /usr/local/icecast/bin/liveice & > > This is failing though. Is anyone else out there successfully starting liveice as a background process? How have you been able to do it? > > > Thanks, > Matt > > > --- >8 ---- > List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ > icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ > To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' > containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. > Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. > --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From Matt at cmitech.com Mon Oct 8 15:57:52 2001 From: Matt at cmitech.com (Matthew Mencel) Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 10:57:52 -0500 Subject: [icecast] liveice.cfg location Message-ID: Can I tell liveice to load a liveice.cfg in a location other than the same directory the liveice program is in? The problem is if I try to run liveice from anywhere other than it's directory it's not finding the liveice.cfg file. Let's say I'm at /. If I run /usr/local/icecast/bin/liveice from there it will not find the /usr/local/icecast/bin/liveice.cfg file. There has got to be a way to do this... Matt --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From wildbill at kpig.com Mon Oct 8 16:43:39 2001 From: wildbill at kpig.com (William Goldsmith) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 09:43:39 -0700 Subject: [icecast] Run liveice as a background process... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1f5201c15018$62572500$6a00000a@laptop> You can chmod 666 /dev/dsp* - I can't think of any problems with that. Or create a group with the appropriate permissions. > Tried running it as non root user but something about the user not having access to the /dev/dsp audio device. I've got to give the user the ability to use that device? > > Thanks for the help. > > Matt > >>> wildbill at kpig.com 10/8/01 10:43:44 AM >>> > That will run liveice as root. If that's what you want, then this ought to > work: > > /usr/local/icecast/bin/liveice >/dev/null 2>/dev/null & > > As a rule, it's probably better to run it as a non-root user (though I'm not > aware of any specific security concerns with liveice). If you've been > running it as root, you'll need to chown -R the hidden temp files directory > (in the same dir as liveice). > > Hope that helps > -bg > > > > I want to run liveice when the RH71 server boots up. I cannot seem to get > it right though. This is what I have tried to do... > > > > In /etc/rc.d/rc.local > > /usr/local/icecast/bin/liveice & > > > > This is failing though. Is anyone else out there successfully starting > liveice as a background process? How have you been able to do it? > > --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From lsy at munkynet.org Mon Oct 8 17:26:19 2001 From: lsy at munkynet.org (Samuel Hathaway) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 13:26:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [icecast] Re: DarkIce 0.6 and Lame 3.89: underlying sink error In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 7 Oct 2001, Matt & Stephanie Mencel wrote: > Samuel, > > I had the same problem. I think it's because the port in darkice does not > match the port icecast or shoutcast is listening on. I thought it was 8000 > but it was actually 8001. Check that. > > Matt It turned out that the server was rejecting DarkIce's password. I took crypt'd password support and reset the passwords, and it worked just fine. Thanks for the help tho. -samuel > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-icecast at xiph.org [mailto:owner-icecast at xiph.org]On Behalf Of > Samuel Hathaway > Sent: Friday, October 05, 2001 2:43 PM > To: icecast at xiph.org > Cc: darkeye at users.sourceforge.net > Subject: [icecast] Re: DarkIce 0.6 and Lame 3.89: underlying sink error > > > On Fri, 5 Oct 2001, Samuel Hathaway wrote: > > > Hey, > > > > I've compiled DarkIce 0.6 dynamically linked to LAME 3.89. I'm running > > Slackware 8 and using gcc 2.95.3. Running DarkIce yields the following > > output: > > > > DarkIce 0.5 live audio streamer, http://darkice.sourceforge.net > > Actually, that's DarkIce 0.5's output. DarkIce 0.6 says: > > DarkIce 0.6 live audio streamer, http://darkice.sourceforge.net > Copyright (c) 2000-2001, Tyrell Hungary, http://tyrell.hu > > Using config file: darkice.cfg > Using POSIX real-time scheduling, priority 98 > LAME version 3.89 (beta 1, Oct 2 2001) (http://www.mp3dev.org/) > Using polyphase lowpass filter, transition band: 8002 Hz - 8535 Hz > DarkIce: LameLibEncoder.cpp:188: lame lib opening underlying sink error > [0] > > > This also happens with DarkIce 0.5. Any ideas on how to fix this? > > > > Thanks in advance. > > -samuel --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From harvey at buskers.org Mon Oct 8 17:33:38 2001 From: harvey at buskers.org (harvey smith) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 13:33:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [icecast] liveice.cfg location In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Yes, I forget the command line switch, but liveice -h spits out the list of command line switches. Harvey On Mon, 8 Oct 2001, Matthew Mencel wrote: > Can I tell liveice to load a liveice.cfg in a location other than the same directory the liveice program is in? The problem is if I try to run liveice from anywhere other than it's directory it's not finding the liveice.cfg file. > > Let's say I'm at /. If I run /usr/local/icecast/bin/liveice from there it will not find the /usr/local/icecast/bin/liveice.cfg file. There has got to be a way to do this... > > Matt > > > --- >8 ---- > List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ > icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ > To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' > containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. > Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. > --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From Matt at cmitech.com Mon Oct 8 18:07:34 2001 From: Matt at cmitech.com (Matthew Mencel) Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 13:07:34 -0500 Subject: [icecast] Keeping Icecast and Liveice running... Message-ID: I'm just wondering how people are keeping Icecast and Liveice running. If it crashes at some point do you just restart everything by hand or do you have something to keep an eye on the processes (e.g svscan/daemontools program)??? I will be running a stream for a radio station and if the stream crashes I would like it to know that it has crashed and either reboot the system or restart the processes somehow. Matt By the way...thanks for all the help. Things seem to be running great so far. Now it's just getting some of these details figured out and I'll be all set. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From wildbill at kpig.com Mon Oct 8 18:37:07 2001 From: wildbill at kpig.com (William Goldsmith) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 11:37:07 -0700 Subject: [icecast] Keeping Icecast and Liveice running... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1fa801c15028$3c1afc80$6a00000a@laptop> Liveice definitely needs a keepalive script of some kind. It's tricky, though - since it can lose connection to the server & stop streaming, but continue to run. The only truly reliable keepalive I've used polls the server to see if it says the stream is up & if not kills & restarts liveice. When killing liveice, it's best to kill the lame process(es) that it spawns as well. I've seen it leave behind zombie lame processes that prevent liveice from starting up. The server generally stays up just fine. -bg > I'm just wondering how people are keeping Icecast and Liveice running. If it crashes at some point do you just restart everything by hand or do you have something to keep an eye on the processes (e.g svscan/daemontools program)??? I will be running a stream for a radio station and if the stream crashes I would like it to know that it has crashed and either reboot the system or restart the processes somehow. > > Matt > --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From alet at unice.fr Mon Oct 8 19:03:42 2001 From: alet at unice.fr (Jerome Alet) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 21:03:42 +0200 Subject: [icecast] Run liveice as a background process... In-Reply-To: <1f5201c15018$62572500$6a00000a@laptop> Message-ID: <20011008210342.A586@nordine.ateur> On Mon, Oct 08, 2001 at 09:43:39AM -0700, William Goldsmith wrote: > You can chmod 666 /dev/dsp* - I can't think of any problems with that. Or > create a group with the appropriate permissions. with this chmod, any user who has an account can spy what you do if you happen to have a microphone plugged in. it's better to make /dev/dsp chmod 660 and make it owned by root.audio, then just put the user you want to run liveice as in the audio group. it works that way under Debian, maybe it's the same under RedHat I don't know. hth. Jerome Alet --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From wildbill at kpig.com Mon Oct 8 20:09:34 2001 From: wildbill at kpig.com (William Goldsmith) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 13:09:34 -0700 Subject: [icecast] Run liveice as a background process... In-Reply-To: <20011008210342.A586@nordine.ateur> Message-ID: <206d01c15035$2694cfa0$6a00000a@laptop> Generally a dedicated encoder box like this won't have multiple users, nor a microphone, but yeah - the audio group would be the better way to go. What you describe would work with any distro. -bg > with this chmod, any user who has an account can spy what you do if you happen > to have a microphone plugged in. > > it's better to make /dev/dsp chmod 660 and make it owned by root.audio, then > just put the user you want to run liveice as in the audio group. > > it works that way under Debian, maybe it's the same under RedHat I don't know. > > hth. > > Jerome Alet > > --- >8 ---- --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From david at neongoat.com Mon Oct 8 20:36:17 2001 From: david at neongoat.com (David Parker) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 13:36:17 -0700 Subject: [icecast] Keeping Icecast and Liveice running... In-Reply-To: <1fa801c15028$3c1afc80$6a00000a@laptop> Message-ID: <20011008133617.169dec28.david@neongoat.com> On Mon, 8 Oct 2001 11:37:07 -0700, "William Goldsmith" wrote: > Liveice definitely needs a keepalive script of some kind. It's tricky, > though - since it can lose connection to the server & stop streaming, but Attatched is a quick perl hack that I've been using for the past year or so with much success. The code is disgusting, but has held up pretty well. Although Bill's idea of polling on the server side seems like the more kosher way to do it. David ------- David Parker Neon Goat Productions http://www.neongoat.com 0xF90FFFE5 / F362 51F7 6D51 85EB AF68 75B9 D29B 1AFC F90F FFE5 -------
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-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: liveice_watchdog.pl Type: application/octet-stream Size: 3488 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bogus@does.not.exist.com Mon Oct 8 23:48:11 2001 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com (Steve @ musicmine.net) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 00:48:11 +0100 (BST) Subject: [icecast] Newbie question - on demand streaming? Message-ID: <64524.194.222.87.49.1002584891.squirrel@secure.musicmine.net> Hi, Just thinking about migrating from Shoutcast..... I have a question on how to make Icecast behave as I have Shoutcast running, and provide "on demand" streaming via my web server. In other words, currently I have a link on my webserver such as thus: http://myserver.org:9000/content/mytrack.pls ....and the user is connected to the Shoutcast server running on port 9000 and streamed the mp3 in the content directory whenever they click on this link. What do I need and how do I make Icecast behave the same? I can find stuff about broadcasting live streams to the server, but not using it "on demand". Just some general pointers to tools and config would be much appreciated...... Thnx, Steve -- Imagine a world with no hypothetical situations.... ----------------------------------------- This email was sent using SquirrelMail. "Webmail for nuts!" http://squirrelmail.org/ --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From jack at xiph.org Mon Oct 8 23:51:00 2001 From: jack at xiph.org (Jack Moffitt) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 17:51:00 -0600 Subject: [icecast] Newbie question - on demand streaming? In-Reply-To: <64524.194.222.87.49.1002584891.squirrel@secure.musicmine.net> Message-ID: <20011008175100.S24728@i.cantcode.com> > Just thinking about migrating from Shoutcast..... I have a question on how > to make Icecast behave as I have Shoutcast running, and provide "on demand" > streaming via my web server. In other words, currently I have a link on my > webserver such as thus: If you already ahve a websserver, why use icecast or shoutcast at all? jack. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From lsy at munkynet.org Tue Oct 9 02:10:58 2001 From: lsy at munkynet.org (Samuel Hathaway) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 22:10:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [icecast] DarkIce and archiving things Message-ID: Hello, After solving my previous problem with DarkIce, I have another question. I'm streaming for a radio station, and we want to archive our shows. I'm writing a little script that talks to our schedule database and "rotates" mp3 files much the same way one might rotate syslog. My problem is, DarkIce only lets you specify a /remote/ file to save, not a /local/ file. I know I can have icecast save a "log" of the stream, but then there's additional lag. Any ideas? Currently, I've written my own streamer in perl, but it's kinda flaky. -samuel --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From darkeye at tyrell.hu Tue Oct 9 05:59:03 2001 From: darkeye at tyrell.hu (Akos Maroy) Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 08:59:03 +0300 Subject: [icecast] DarkIce and archiving things In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3BC29227.E0931F64@tyrell.hu> Samuel Hathaway wrote: > > Hello, > > After solving my previous problem with DarkIce, I have another question. > I'm streaming for a radio station, and we want to archive our shows. I'm > writing a little script that talks to our schedule database and "rotates" > mp3 files much the same way one might rotate syslog. My problem is, > DarkIce only lets you specify a /remote/ file to save, not a /local/ file. > I know I can have icecast save a "log" of the stream, but then there's > additional lag. Any ideas? Currently, I've written my own streamer in > perl, but it's kinda flaky. I use the remoteDumpFile feature of icecast to archive our radio. I start DarkIce every 4 hours for a 4 hour period, and have a different remote dump file for each of these per day. So I have 6 different remote dump files in total, one from midnight to 4 am, one from 4 am to 8, etc. I also have a script on the server machine which cuts these dump files into half-our pieces using dd, at every :02 and :32. This way I get the archive of the live broadcast with a half hour lag, and in half hour resolutions (remember, there is no fast-forward capability in xmms or other mp3 streaming clients). The reason I didn't put a local dump feature into DarkIce is that in an optimal setup, the server and the encoder is a different machine, with only the server visible on the net. So you'd have to copy the archive from the encoder's local dump to the server, in effect doubling the network load between them (as the same thing gets streamed once, than copied a second time). Also, as the server dumps real time, the lag is the same with a local dump and an icecast dump. Akos --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From bogus@does.not.exist.com Tue Oct 9 10:41:30 2001 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com (Steve @ musicmine.net) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 11:41:30 +0100 (BST) Subject: [icecast] Newbie question - on demand streaming? In-Reply-To: <20011008175100.S24728@i.cantcode.com> Message-ID: <64775.194.222.87.49.1002624090.squirrel@secure.musicmine.net> Hi, >> Just thinking about migrating from Shoutcast..... I have a question >> on how to make Icecast behave as I have Shoutcast running, and provide >> "on demand" streaming via my web server. In other words, currently I >> have a link on my webserver such as thus: > > If you already ahve a websserver, why use icecast or shoutcast at all? Well, a number of reasons. Dedicated streamers are better at streaming audio/video than webservers, the major reason for using Shoutcast et al. .m3u files suck (which is how I presume you feel I should be streaming from my webserver).....I seem to remember you have to play around with mime types et al. Dedicated streaming gives me the ability to do live broadcasts and thus gives me greater flexability than just using my webserver. Webservers are intended for delivering markup language and are good at it. Thus I prefer leaving them to do that and that alone. Seperating duties tends to give a nicely cohesive environment...i.e. My webserver dishes up web pages, my audio server dishes up audio. Nice design principles in there somewhere. etc etc.....I could go on. The reason I wanna go Icecast is that I'd like a truly GPL'd environment, not some pseudo one like Shoutcast. So lets just take it for given that I'm mad and that I'm gonna use a dedicated streamer such as Icecast. Can I make it behave like Shoutcast's on demand feature detailed in my original mail? Rgds, Steve Huckle -- Imagine a world with no hypothetical situations.... ----------------------------------------- This email was sent using SquirrelMail. "Webmail for nuts!" http://squirrelmail.org/ --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From Robin_Blanchard at gactr.uga.edu Tue Oct 9 12:22:05 2001 From: Robin_Blanchard at gactr.uga.edu (Robin P. Blanchard) Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 08:22:05 -0400 Subject: [icecast] Keeping Icecast and Liveice running... In-Reply-To: <1fa801c15028$3c1afc80$6a00000a@laptop> Message-ID: <3BC2EBED.D82F3AF4@gactr.uga.edu> I'd love to take a look at this script, and, more than likely, I'm not the only one :) Please post an example. > Liveice definitely needs a keepalive script of some kind. It's tricky, > though - since it can lose connection to the server & stop streaming, but > continue to run. The only truly reliable keepalive I've used polls the > server to see if it says the stream is up & if not kills & restarts liveice. > When killing liveice, it's best to kill the lame process(es) that it spawns > as well. I've seen it leave behind zombie lame processes that prevent > liveice from starting up. -- ------------------------------------ Robin P. Blanchard IT Program Specialist Georgia Center for Continuing Ed. fon: 706.542.2404 fax: 706.542.6546 email: Robin_Blanchard at gactr.uga.edu ------------------------------------ --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From wildbill at kpig.com Tue Oct 9 16:23:40 2001 From: wildbill at kpig.com (William Goldsmith) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 09:23:40 -0700 Subject: [icecast] Keeping Icecast and Liveice running... In-Reply-To: <3BC2EBED.D82F3AF4@gactr.uga.edu> Message-ID: <218a01c150de$c1d61880$6a00000a@laptop> > I'd love to take a look at this script, and, more than likely, I'm not > the only one :) > > Please post an example. > > OK - This is a quick & dirty hack - I'm sure there are several more elegant solutions... But it works. NOTE: this is designed for a Shoutcast server. You'd need to change the check= lines to work with Icecast. Couldn't find an Icecast-specific copy, since I'm only using Shoutcast servers currently. 2 files: #!/bin/bash # Keepalive for liveice encoder # bill at radioparadise.com # LOG=/usr/local/icecast/ka.log SERVER=scastsrv2.shoutcast.com:8048 DIR=icecast STREAM=RP128 STARTFILE=/usr/local/icecast/restart.128 echo "`date` - Keepalive started for $STREAM" >> $LOG while [ 0 ] do check=`lynx -dump http://$SERVER/index.html | grep -c "currently down"` if [ $check = 1 ] then $STARTFILE echo "`date` - $STREAM restarted" >> $LOG sleep 10 check=`lynx -dump http://$SERVER/index.html | grep -c "currently down"` if [ $check = 1 ] then echo "`date` - Bummer. $STREAM on $SERVER is down" >> $LOG else echo "`date` - Yippee! $SERVER sez Stream Is Up!" >> $LOG fi # else # echo "`date` - $STREAM on $SERVER OK" >> $LOG fi sleep 20 done [sample $STARTFILE] #!/bin/bash DIR=icecast kill `/usr/local/icecast/ps xww | grep "$DIR/lame" | cut -c1-5` >/dev/null kill `/usr/local/icecast/ps xww | grep "$DIR/liveice" | cut -c1-5` >/dev/null /usr/local/$DIR/liveice >/dev/null 2>/dev/null & > > > Liveice definitely needs a keepalive script of some kind. It's tricky, > > though - since it can lose connection to the server & stop streaming, but > > continue to run. The only truly reliable keepalive I've used polls the > > server to see if it says the stream is up & if not kills & restarts liveice. > > When killing liveice, it's best to kill the lame process(es) that it spawns > > as well. I've seen it leave behind zombie lame processes that prevent > > liveice from starting up. > > -- > ------------------------------------ > Robin P. Blanchard > IT Program Specialist > Georgia Center for Continuing Ed. > fon: 706.542.2404 fax: 706.542.6546 > email: Robin_Blanchard at gactr.uga.edu > ------------------------------------ > --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From lsy at munkynet.org Tue Oct 9 18:52:57 2001 From: lsy at munkynet.org (Samuel Hathaway) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 14:52:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [icecast] DarkIce and archiving things In-Reply-To: <3BC29227.E0931F64@tyrell.hu> Message-ID: On Tue, 9 Oct 2001, Akos Maroy wrote: > Samuel Hathaway wrote: > > > > Hello, > > > > After solving my previous problem with DarkIce, I have another question. > > I'm streaming for a radio station, and we want to archive our shows. I'm > > writing a little script that talks to our schedule database and "rotates" > > mp3 files much the same way one might rotate syslog. My problem is, > > DarkIce only lets you specify a /remote/ file to save, not a /local/ file. > > I know I can have icecast save a "log" of the stream, but then there's > > additional lag. Any ideas? Currently, I've written my own streamer in > > perl, but it's kinda flaky. > > I use the remoteDumpFile feature of icecast to archive our radio. I > start DarkIce every 4 hours for a 4 hour period, and have a different > remote dump file for each of these per day. So I have 6 different remote > dump files in total, one from midnight to 4 am, one from 4 am to 8, etc. > > I also have a script on the server machine which cuts these dump files > into half-our pieces using dd, at every :02 and :32. This way I get the > archive of the live broadcast with a half hour lag, and in half hour > resolutions (remember, there is no fast-forward capability in xmms or > other mp3 streaming clients). > > The reason I didn't put a local dump feature into DarkIce is that in an > optimal setup, the server and the encoder is a different machine, with > only the server visible on the net. So you'd have to copy the archive > from the encoder's local dump to the server, in effect doubling the > network load between them (as the same thing gets streamed once, than > copied a second time). Also, as the server dumps real time, the lag is > the same with a local dump and an icecast dump. Thanks for the information... I'm thinking about setting the remote dump file to be a named pipe, with a perl script listening on the other end which would take care of segmenting the files according to show schedules. Thanks for DarkIce! -samuel --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From Robin_Blanchard at gactr.uga.edu Tue Oct 9 20:48:22 2001 From: Robin_Blanchard at gactr.uga.edu (Robin P. Blanchard) Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 16:48:22 -0400 Subject: [icecast] Re: keeping Liveice running... In-Reply-To: <218a01c150de$c1d61880$6a00000a@laptop> Message-ID: <3BC36296.721833CE@gactr.uga.edu> ok...based on William's shoutcast-based suggestion, i've come up with the following. i haven't had time to really test the thing yet...suggestions are greatly appreciated. i based this on the fact that icecast's stats.log tells what sources are connected (in my case 0 and 1) and that log is updated frequently (per icecast.conf) #!/bin/sh DIR=/usr/local LOG=$DIR/var/icecast/log/stats.log SOURCE=`cat $LOG |grep Source\ [0-1] |awk '{print $1" "$2}'|sort |uniq` PIDS=`ps ax |grep $DIR/bin/liveice |awk '{print $1}' ; ps ax |grep $DIR/bin/lame |awk '{print $1}'` if [ "$SOURCE" ] ; then echo "LiveIce still connected to icecast server." else if [ "$PIDS" ] ; then echo "Killing rogue processes..." echo "pid(s): $PIDS" kill -9 $PIDS $DIR/bin/liveice -F $DIR/etc/liveice/liveice.cfg >/dev/null 2>/dev/null & echo "LiveIce restarted at `date`." else $DIR/bin/liveice -F $DIR/etc/liveice/liveice.cfg >/dev/null 2>/dev/null & echo "LiveIce restarted at `date`." fi fi -- ------------------------------------ Robin P. Blanchard IT Program Specialist Georgia Center for Continuing Ed. fon: 706.542.2404 fax: 706.542.6546 email: Robin_Blanchard at gactr.uga.edu ------------------------------------ --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From pauls at globaliqx.com Tue Oct 9 20:48:26 2001 From: pauls at globaliqx.com (Paul Slinski) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 16:48:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [icecast] metadata and ices Message-ID: Has anyone any info on implimenting the metadata updates though a firewall? I assume it uses UDP but searching the net I have yet to find a port that it uses. Thank you. Paul --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From jsd at cluttered.com Thu Oct 11 01:29:19 2001 From: jsd at cluttered.com (Jon Drukman) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 18:29:19 -0700 Subject: [icecast] newbie q: mime type? Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20011010182731.00b5fe20@10.10.10.1> ok this has to be FAQ #1 but it's not in my FAQ file... how do i get it so going to my server (http://pretension.com:8000/) starts an mp3 player streaming instead of opening up a 51M download window? anybody got a nice site with lots of fancy stuff like playlists and such? i want to look at it to get some ideas... i'd like a log of what was played. this has to be fairly basic stuff... -jsd- --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From gshang at uq.net.au Thu Oct 11 02:31:13 2001 From: gshang at uq.net.au (Geoff Shang) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 12:31:13 +1000 Subject: [icecast] newbie q: mime type? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20011010182731.00b5fe20@10.10.10.1> Message-ID: On Wed, 10 Oct 2001, Jon Drukman wrote: > ok this has to be FAQ #1 but it's not in my FAQ file... > > how do i get it so going to my server (http://pretension.com:8000/) starts > an mp3 player streaming instead of opening up a 51M download window? You don't. It doesn't work like that. The browser won't launch an app until the given file is downloaded which, for a live stream, will never happen. What you have to do is to use an M3U or PLS file (M3U is more widely supported) containing the above URL. When clicked on, this file will be downloaded and passed off to your MP3 player. Example: click here to listen tream.m3u contains your http://pretension.com:8000/ address. When someone clicks on the link, stream.m3u is downloaded and then opened by their MP3 player. the player reads the URL and starts streaming that content. Yes, this does need to be in the FAQ as it's an extremely common question. Geoff. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From asym at rfnj.org Thu Oct 11 02:55:04 2001 From: asym at rfnj.org (Asymmetric) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 22:55:04 -0400 Subject: [icecast] newbie q: mime type? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011010225251.00af9be0@rfnj.org> At 12:31 PM 10/11/2001 +1000, you wrote: >On Wed, 10 Oct 2001, Jon Drukman wrote: > > > ok this has to be FAQ #1 but it's not in my FAQ file... > > > > how do i get it so going to my server (http://pretension.com:8000/) starts > > an mp3 player streaming instead of opening up a 51M download window? > >You don't. It doesn't work like that. The browser won't launch an app >until the given file is downloaded which, for a live stream, will never >happen. What you have to do is to use an M3U or PLS file (M3U is more >widely supported) containing the above URL. When clicked on, this file >will be downloaded and passed off to your MP3 player. Example: > >click here to listen This isn't true. He can also do either of these two things : 1. Open http://pretension.com:8000/playlist.pls?mount=/icy_0&file=dummy.pls in his browser. (assuming he is using mountpoint 0) 2. Open http://pretension.com:8000 in his player. There is no need to create a pls/m3u and open it, icecast generates these on-the-fly with the URL used in #1. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From jsd at cluttered.com Thu Oct 11 21:38:50 2001 From: jsd at cluttered.com (Jon Drukman) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 14:38:50 -0700 Subject: [icecast] newbie q: mime type? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20011010225251.00af9be0@rfnj.org> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20011011143139.00b70748@10.10.10.1> At 10:55 PM 10/10/2001 -0400, Asymmetric wrote: >1. Open >http://pretension.com:8000/playlist.pls?mount=/icy_0&file=dummy.pls in his >browser. >(assuming he is using mountpoint 0) > >2. Open http://pretension.com:8000 in his player. > >There is no need to create a pls/m3u and open it, icecast generates these >on-the-fly with the URL used in #1. thanks for the tips guys. i went with creating an m3u file because, honestly, i am never going to remember the giant url in #1. and every time i send people the #2 link (in, say, instant messenger) they click it and get a download window instead of hearing the stream. http://pretension.com/radio.m3u that's short enough for me to remember. -jsd- --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From darkeye at tyrell.hu Fri Oct 12 05:26:44 2001 From: darkeye at tyrell.hu (Akos Maroy) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 08:26:44 +0300 Subject: [icecast] newbie q: mime type? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20011011143139.00b70748@10.10.10.1> Message-ID: <3BC67F14.9596A67F@tyrell.hu> another related question: what mime type to use with IceCast2? And is there an equivalent to the .m3u file for Ogg Vorbis? --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From gshang at uq.net.au Fri Oct 12 12:39:11 2001 From: gshang at uq.net.au (Geoff Shang) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 22:39:11 +1000 Subject: [icecast] newbie q: mime type? In-Reply-To: <3BC67F14.9596A67F@tyrell.hu> Message-ID: On Fri, 12 Oct 2001, Akos Maroy wrote: > another related question: what mime type to use with IceCast2? At present, application/x-ogg. We may well get audio/x-ogg and video/x-ogg in future. > And is > there an equivalent to the .m3u file for Ogg Vorbis? AFAIK, no there isn't, and IMHO there needs to be. M3U is MP3 specific and PLS is not all that widely supported. Both of these would mean using one player for both MP3 and vorbis streams. I sent a message with my thoughts on this to the vorbis list, but thus far have had no response. Will gladly repost it here if people want to see it. Geoff. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From bob at redinews.com Fri Oct 12 12:49:47 2001 From: bob at redinews.com (Bob Ostermann) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 08:49:47 -0400 Subject: [icecast] Icecast 1.3.11 drops clients? Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20011012084646.0222a4b0@mail.redinews.com> Hi all- I have a 850 mhz Redhat 6.1 server running IceCast v1.3.11, and I'm using Winamp (also tried Sonique) on a 450 mhz win 98 box and connecting via 100 mbps switched LAN. I will periodically get dropped by the icecast server. It's stdout display shows (in part): -> [11/Oct/2001:13:23:13] Accepted client 13 from [205.138.214.129] on mountpoint [/default]. 1 clients connected -> [11/Oct/2001:13:25:02] [Bandwidth: 0.050000MB/s] [Sources: 1] [Clients: 1] [Admins: 1] [Uptime: 16 minutes] -> [11/Oct/2001:13:27:02] [Bandwidth: 0.050000MB/s] [Sources: 1] [Clients: 1] [Admins: 1] [Uptime: 18 minutes] -> [11/Oct/2001:13:27:29] Kicking client 13 [205.138.214.129] [Too many errors (client not receiving data fast enough)] [listener], connected for 4 minutes and 16 seconds, 5335196 bytes transfered. 0 clients connected -> [11/Oct/2001:13:29:02] [Bandwidth: 0.033333MB/s] [Sources: 1] [Clients: 0] [Admins: 1] [Uptime: 20 minutes] -> [11/Oct/2001:13:30:56] Accepted client 18 from [205.138.214.129] on mountpoint [/default]. 1 clients connected -> [11/Oct/2001:13:31:02] [Bandwidth: 0.016667MB/s] [Sources: 1] [Clients: 1] [Admins: 1] [Uptime: 22 minutes] -> [11/Oct/2001:13:31:47] Kicking client 18 [205.138.214.129] [Too many errors (client not receiving data fast enough)] [listener], connected for 51 seconds, 1210061 bytes transfered. 0 clients connected -> [11/Oct/2001:13:33:02] [Bandwidth: 0.016667MB/s] [Sources: 1] [Clients: 0] [Admins: 1] [Uptime: 24 minutes] -> [11/Oct/2001:13:34:31] Accepted client 21 from [205.138.214.129] on mountpoint [/default]. 1 clients connected -> [11/Oct/2001:13:35:02] [Bandwidth: 0.050000MB/s] [Sources: 1] [Clients: 1] [Admins: 1] [Uptime: 26 minutes] -> I had a buddy connect from the public net at the same time as me, and we were _both_ dropped (with the same message). This is a new installation, and I've not worked with IceCast before. any clues? --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From jack at xiph.org Fri Oct 12 14:33:25 2001 From: jack at xiph.org (Jack Moffitt) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 08:33:25 -0600 Subject: [icecast] Icecast 1.3.11 drops clients? In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20011012084646.0222a4b0@mail.redinews.com> Message-ID: <20011012083325.A12944@i.cantcode.com> > I have a 850 mhz Redhat 6.1 server running IceCast v1.3.11, and I'm using > Winamp (also tried Sonique) on a 450 mhz win 98 box and connecting via 100 > mbps switched LAN. What are you using to source the stream? jack. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From mailist at toolz.com Fri Oct 12 14:59:10 2001 From: mailist at toolz.com (Mailing List Receiver) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 10:59:10 -0400 Subject: [icecast] Looking for a re-encoding utility Message-ID: <200110121459.f9CExAv24037@toolz.com> Please pardon me if you have already seen this posting, but I received no postings from the list for a week....I assumed the list was down. I would like to batch re-encode MP3 files on the Icecast host. A command-line utility to take say a 56kbps MP3 file as input and produce a 20kbps MP3 file as out would be ideal. --------------------------------------------------------------- Todd Merriman - Rainbow Radio Sound & Light +1 770 889 5897 8030 Pooles Mill Dr., Ball Ground, GA 30107 dj at RainbowRadio.com http://www.RainbowRadio.com --------------------------------------------------------------- --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From wildbill at kpig.com Fri Oct 12 15:45:44 2001 From: wildbill at kpig.com (William Goldsmith) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 08:45:44 -0700 Subject: [icecast] Looking for a re-encoding utility In-Reply-To: <200110121459.f9CExAv24037@toolz.com> Message-ID: <051301c15334$f492a2e0$9865fea9@laptop> Lame (www.sulaco.org) will accept mp3 files as input sources if you have mpg123 installed. > Please pardon me if you have already seen this posting, but I received > no postings from the list for a week....I assumed the list was down. > > I would like to batch re-encode MP3 files on the Icecast host. > A command-line utility to take say a 56kbps MP3 file as input and > produce a 20kbps MP3 file as out would be ideal. > --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From pauls at globaliqx.com Fri Oct 12 15:36:47 2001 From: pauls at globaliqx.com (Paul Slinski) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 11:36:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [icecast] Icecast/Ices and Mountpoints Message-ID: How does one get mountpoints working. I have tried time and time to get seperate mountpoints going (eg 56k and 112k on /56 and /112) but no dice. Do I need to start 2 instances of icecast? Any pointers are appreciated. -Paul Slinski --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From jack at xiph.org Fri Oct 12 15:47:41 2001 From: jack at xiph.org (Jack Moffitt) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 09:47:41 -0600 Subject: [icecast] Icecast/Ices and Mountpoints In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20011012094741.B12944@i.cantcode.com> > How does one get mountpoints working. I have tried time and time to get > seperate mountpoints going (eg 56k and 112k on /56 and /112) but no dice. > > Do I need to start 2 instances of icecast? No. Just use the mountpoint option for ices/shout/liveice/darkice, etc. jack. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From gtgbr at gmx.net Fri Oct 12 15:48:55 2001 From: gtgbr at gmx.net (Moritz Grimm) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 17:48:55 +0200 Subject: [icecast] Icecast/Ices and Mountpoints In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3BC710E7.11CDAC39@gmx.net> In addition to Jack's answer (which surely is the nice way to do it), you could add aliases for /_icy0 and /_icy1 if everything else fails. Moritz Paul Slinski wrote: > > How does one get mountpoints working. I have tried time and time to get > seperate mountpoints going (eg 56k and 112k on /56 and /112) but no dice. > > Do I need to start 2 instances of icecast? > > Any pointers are appreciated. > > -Paul Slinski > > --- >8 ---- > List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ > icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ > To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' > containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. > Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From darkeye at tyrell.hu Fri Oct 12 18:07:44 2001 From: darkeye at tyrell.hu (Akos Maroy) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 21:07:44 +0300 Subject: [icecast] icecast 2 problem Message-ID: <3BC73170.759AF770@tyrell.hu> I just tried my first production icecast 2 streaming. When I try and connect ogg123 to the stream, I get the following: $ ogg123 -v http://yp.tilos.hu:9000/tilos96 HTTP Headers: ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? and then the last line unlimited number of times. What could be wrong? (The above URL will be active until midnight CET for anyone to try out.) --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From gshang at uq.net.au Sat Oct 13 00:17:56 2001 From: gshang at uq.net.au (Geoff Shang) Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 10:17:56 +1000 Subject: [icecast] icecast 2 problem In-Reply-To: <3BC73170.759AF770@tyrell.hu> Message-ID: On Fri, 12 Oct 2001, Akos Maroy wrote: > I just tried my first production icecast 2 streaming. When I try and > connect ogg123 to the stream, I get the following: > > $ ogg123 -v http://yp.tilos.hu:9000/tilos96 You need an .ogg extension, for starters. Geoff. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From darkeye at tyrell.hu Sat Oct 13 03:14:14 2001 From: darkeye at tyrell.hu (Akos Maroy) Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 06:14:14 +0300 Subject: [icecast] icecast 2 problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3BC7B186.D5C39B14@tyrell.hu> Geoff Shang wrote: > > On Fri, 12 Oct 2001, Akos Maroy wrote: > > > I just tried my first production icecast 2 streaming. When I try and > > connect ogg123 to the stream, I get the following: > > > > $ ogg123 -v http://yp.tilos.hu:9000/tilos96 > > You need an .ogg extension, for starters. why would I? I don't need a .mp3 with icecast 1.x.... After all, this is not windows I'm using, extensions shouldn't matter... --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From msmith at labyrinth.net.au Sat Oct 13 03:57:18 2001 From: msmith at labyrinth.net.au (Michael Smith) Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 13:57:18 +1000 Subject: [icecast] icecast 2 problem In-Reply-To: <3BC7B186.D5C39B14@tyrell.hu> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20011013135718.4115a370@mail.labyrinth.net.au> At 06:14 AM 10/13/01 +0300, you wrote: >Geoff Shang wrote: >> >> On Fri, 12 Oct 2001, Akos Maroy wrote: >> >> > I just tried my first production icecast 2 streaming. When I try and >> > connect ogg123 to the stream, I get the following: >> > >> > $ ogg123 -v http://yp.tilos.hu:9000/tilos96 >> >> You need an .ogg extension, for starters. > >why would I? I don't need a .mp3 with icecast 1.x.... After all, this is >not windows I'm using, extensions shouldn't matter... You don't need an extension in this particular case. What your actual problem is, I don't know. You WILL need a .ogg extension once you're actually up and running, though. This is not a restriction in the server, but due to crappy clients. A number of clients will try to decode any stream as mp3, so the vorbis plugins override this for things ending with ".ogg". It's a bad solution, but it's the way things are for now. Michael --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From mystica at darktech.org Mon Oct 15 08:20:48 2001 From: mystica at darktech.org (Mike hodson) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 02:20:48 -0600 Subject: [icecast] Icecast2 ? Message-ID: <20011015021923.2C21.MYSTICA@darktech.org> Since I am on a limited upload connection, but still want to stream high-quality music for friends (I do have a colocated server on the outside, but getting music there in the first place is the hard part) I am thinking of using OGG/Vorbis streaming, ~64kbit. However, I can't find icecast 2 beta to download. Can someone point me in the right place? Thanks Mike -- --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From tim at nvhs.nl Mon Oct 15 12:32:38 2001 From: tim at nvhs.nl (tim) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 14:32:38 +0200 Subject: [icecast] mount fallback 0 || no streams found Message-ID: <20011015143236.A19183@xs4all.nl> hello, I'm doing something wrong here, but I can't find what I need to do right. If I set the mount fallback to "0", no stream is found eventhough there maybe one or even two sources in icecast. What do I need to set/add so I don't need the mount fallback? Using: ices-0.2.2 icecast 1.3.11 on 2.4.9 thanks, t. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From azo at tripnotic.org Mon Oct 15 12:38:03 2001 From: azo at tripnotic.org (azo) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 15:38:03 +0300 Subject: [icecast] mount fallback 0 || no streams found In-Reply-To: <20011015143236.A19183@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <20011015153803.M6862@tripnotic.org> On Mon, Oct 15, 2001 at 02:32:38PM +0200, tim wrote: > If I set the mount fallback to "0", no stream is found eventhough > there maybe one or even two sources in icecast. > What do I need to set/add so I don't need the mount fallback? Check hostname and server_name settings in icecast.conf. -- arto kitula / dj azo / azo at djazo.com / +358 40 513 8296 --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From bwilson at corvusdigital.com Mon Oct 15 12:39:02 2001 From: bwilson at corvusdigital.com (Ben Wilson) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 08:39:02 -0400 Subject: [icecast] mount fallback 0 || no streams found In-Reply-To: <[icecast] mount fallback 0 || no streams found> Message-ID: <6574977BA279D311825C00902741E28E01AF042F@exchange.corvusdigital.com> are you attempting to do this locally, with your machine behind a firewall? I had something similar happen, I had a High and Lo stream, and specifying /HI or /Lo or (nothing) externally worked fine -- internally, no dice. -----Original Message----- From: owner-icecast at xiph.org [mailto:owner-icecast at xiph.org]On Behalf Of azo Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 8:38 AM To: icecast at xiph.org Subject: Re: [icecast] mount fallback 0 || no streams found On Mon, Oct 15, 2001 at 02:32:38PM +0200, tim wrote: > If I set the mount fallback to "0", no stream is found eventhough > there maybe one or even two sources in icecast. > What do I need to set/add so I don't need the mount fallback? Check hostname and server_name settings in icecast.conf. -- arto kitula / dj azo / azo at djazo.com / +358 40 513 8296 --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From tim at nvhs.nl Mon Oct 15 12:54:57 2001 From: tim at nvhs.nl (tim) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 14:54:57 +0200 Subject: [icecast] mount fallback 0 || no streams found In-Reply-To: <20011015153803.M6862@tripnotic.org> Message-ID: <20011015145457.A20786@xs4all.nl> nope ... no effect. didn't work. if the mount fallback is set to zero, still won't find the mount points. I changed hostname to the box's ip and under server_name I put the box's name and domain. then I used force_servername 1. till not working. this is really bizarre. I thought it would be easier than this to get multiple streams going, which I want. If I have multiple streams, with the mount fallback set to 1, it just picks the stream which has been on the longest. not what I want. t. * azo [011015 14:38]: > On Mon, Oct 15, 2001 at 02:32:38PM +0200, tim wrote: > > If I set the mount fallback to "0", no stream is found eventhough > > there maybe one or even two sources in icecast. > > What do I need to set/add so I don't need the mount fallback? > > Check hostname and server_name settings in icecast.conf. > > -- > arto kitula / dj azo / azo at djazo.com / +358 40 513 8296 > > > --- >8 ---- > List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ > icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ > To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' > containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. > Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From tim at nvhs.nl Mon Oct 15 12:56:27 2001 From: tim at nvhs.nl (tim) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 14:56:27 +0200 Subject: [icecast] mount fallback 0 || no streams found In-Reply-To: <6574977BA279D311825C00902741E28E01AF042F@exchange.corvusdigital.com> Message-ID: <20011015145627.B20786@xs4all.nl> no, there is no fireall involved here. is it matter of putting something into the icecast.conf? or does one need to inset a option into ./configure when compiling? t. * Ben Wilson [011015 14:39]: > are you attempting to do this locally, with your machine behind a firewall? > I had something similar happen, I had a High and Lo stream, and specifying > /HI or /Lo or (nothing) externally worked fine -- internally, no dice. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-icecast at xiph.org [mailto:owner-icecast at xiph.org]On Behalf Of > azo > Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 8:38 AM > To: icecast at xiph.org > Subject: Re: [icecast] mount fallback 0 || no streams found > > > On Mon, Oct 15, 2001 at 02:32:38PM +0200, tim wrote: > > If I set the mount fallback to "0", no stream is found eventhough > > there maybe one or even two sources in icecast. > > What do I need to set/add so I don't need the mount fallback? > > Check hostname and server_name settings in icecast.conf. > > -- > arto kitula / dj azo / azo at djazo.com / +358 40 513 8296 > > > --- >8 ---- > List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ > icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ > To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' > containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. > Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. > > --- >8 ---- > List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ > icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ > To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' > containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. > Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From tim at nvhs.nl Mon Oct 15 14:05:18 2001 From: tim at nvhs.nl (tim) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 16:05:18 +0200 Subject: [icecast] mount fallback 0 || no streams found In-Reply-To: <20011015145457.A20786@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <20011015160518.A736@xs4all.nl> uurgh ... I was wrong here. What tricked me is after I did this, the shoutcast bots couldn't find a stream. I then tried it myself, and yes, by adding the box's ip and hostname, I can listen to the different streams on different mount points. however, to solve the problem with the shoutcast bot, I put the mount fallback back on and the bot saw it. I remember I mail from Jack sometime ago on the list, which said that yp.shoutcast.com could only see one stream from an icecast server (do correct me if I'm wrong!). t. * tim [011015 14:54]: > > nope ... no effect. didn't work. if the mount fallback is set to zero, > still won't find the mount points. > > I changed hostname to the box's ip and under server_name I put the > box's name and domain. then I used force_servername 1. > > still not working. this is really bizarre. I thought it would be > easier than this to get multiple streams going, which I want. > > If I have multiple streams, with the mount fallback set to 1, it just > picks the stream which has been on the longest. not what I want. > > t. > > * azo [011015 14:38]: > > On Mon, Oct 15, 2001 at 02:32:38PM +0200, tim wrote: > > > If I set the mount fallback to "0", no stream is found eventhough > > > there maybe one or even two sources in icecast. > > > What do I need to set/add so I don't need the mount fallback? > > > > Check hostname and server_name settings in icecast.conf. > > > > -- > > arto kitula / dj azo / azo at djazo.com / +358 40 513 8296 > > > > > > --- >8 ---- > > List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ > > icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' > > containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. > > Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. > > --- >8 ---- > List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ > icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ > To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' > containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. > Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From jack at xiph.org Mon Oct 15 15:14:59 2001 From: jack at xiph.org (Jack Moffitt) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 09:14:59 -0600 Subject: [icecast] Icecast2 ? In-Reply-To: <20011015021923.2C21.MYSTICA@darktech.org> Message-ID: <20011015091459.K19663@i.cantcode.com> > Since I am on a limited upload connection, but still want to stream > high-quality music for friends (I do have a colocated server on the > outside, but getting music there in the first place is the hard part) I > am thinking of using OGG/Vorbis streaming, ~64kbit. However, I can't > find icecast 2 beta to download. > Can someone point me in the right place? It's in xiph.org cvs. All the information is at http://www.xiph.org/cvs.html you want the 'icecast' module. Instructions for building are in icecast/HACKING jack. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From gshang at uq.net.au Tue Oct 16 01:13:53 2001 From: gshang at uq.net.au (Geoff Shang) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 11:13:53 +1000 Subject: [icecast] Icecast2 ? In-Reply-To: <20011015091459.K19663@i.cantcode.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 15 Oct 2001, Jack Moffitt wrote: > It's in xiph.org cvs. All the information is at > http://www.xiph.org/cvs.html > > you want the 'icecast' module. Instructions for building are in > icecast/HACKING FYI, libshout2 and ices2 are also in the xiph CVS, under libshout and ices, respectively. All of these also have dependancies. These are: icecast: avl, httpp, log, net, thread, timing libshout and ices: avl, log, net, thread, timing All of these unpack in the src directory in the appropriate source tree. Note that this was the case a few weeks ago and I'm assuming this hasn't changed. Geoff. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From jack at xiph.org Tue Oct 16 01:23:53 2001 From: jack at xiph.org (Jack Moffitt) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 19:23:53 -0600 Subject: [icecast] Icecast2 ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20011015192353.T19663@i.cantcode.com> > > It's in xiph.org cvs. All the information is at > > http://www.xiph.org/cvs.html > > > > you want the 'icecast' module. Instructions for building are in > > icecast/HACKING > > FYI, libshout2 and ices2 are also in the xiph CVS, under libshout and ices, > respectively. All of these also have dependancies. These are: Tha's just what I said basically. They are in xiph.org cvs. Currently that's the only place they are :) > icecast: avl, httpp, log, net, thread, timing > libshout and ices: avl, log, net, thread, timing > > All of these unpack in the src directory in the appropriate source tree. > > Note that this was the case a few weeks ago and I'm assuming this hasn't > changed. It hasn't. And this is documented in 'HACKING'. jack. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From Robin_Blanchard at gactr.uga.edu Tue Oct 16 18:13:17 2001 From: Robin_Blanchard at gactr.uga.edu (Robin P. Blanchard) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 14:13:17 -0400 Subject: [icecast] icecast refuses to accept encoder after losing original feed Message-ID: <3BCC78BD.FFBFC236@gactr.uga.edu> running: latest CVS of icecast-1.3.11, liveice, and lame. i initially launch the server with the following shell script: #!/bin/sh /usr/local/bin/icecast -c /usr/local/etc/icecast/conf/icecast.conf -b /bin/sleep 5 /usr/local/bin/liveice -F /usr/local/etc/liveice/liveice.cfg >/dev/null 2>/dev/null & everything runs fine for a random period of time (sometimes hours, sometimes days) until which icecast loses its feeds (2) from liveice. at this point, all process still claim to be running. however, icecast also stops logging at that point. that said, i go through either with a script or by hand and killall rogue liveice and lame processes. i then run liveice (via the liveice line from the above script) and all processes look good again. however, icecast doesn't accept the feeds, nor does it log anything (as it stopped logging when it apparently lost its original feed). as such the only solution has been to kill *everything* and restart the entire combination (icecast + liveice), which is entirely too hands-on. has anyone seen this and figured out a way around? i came up with a script to check if icecast has lost it's sources and if so to kill and relaunch liveice. obviously this won't work if icecast is in some rogue state as well and not accepting any more feeds. i suppose i could increase the hack even more to have the script kill icecast as well. but isn't that a bit ridiculous :) -- ------------------------------------ Robin P. Blanchard IT Program Specialist Georgia Center for Continuing Ed. fon: 706.542.2404 fax: 706.542.6546 email: Robin_Blanchard at gactr.uga.edu ------------------------------------ --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From tre at shoko.calarts.edu Tue Oct 16 21:54:33 2001 From: tre at shoko.calarts.edu (tom erbe) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 14:54:33 -0700 Subject: [icecast] darkice - solaris binary? Message-ID: Does anyone have a Solaris (/dev/audio) binary of darkice? I am having difficulty compiling the source on my ultra5. -- ........................................................................ Tom Erbe . 608 Carla Way, La Jolla, CA, 92037 tre at shoko.calarts.edu . aim ThomasErbe http://shoko.calarts.edu/~tre ........................................................................ --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From jack at xiph.org Thu Oct 18 02:19:04 2001 From: jack at xiph.org (Jack Moffitt) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 20:19:04 -0600 Subject: [icecast] a new directory service In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010917171517.00b03e18@rfnj.org> Message-ID: <20011017201904.O10106@i.cantcode.com> I apologize for the delay in response time :) I got busy. Now I'm back :) > >Go read a basic document on Internet Standards. Encoding meta > >information (especially type) in a filename or URL is broken and wrong. > > I wasn't suggesting it be encoded in the URL.. only that if you go to the > URL (not the client-listen url, the website url) there should state what > type of streams they provide. I think most people already do this, or if > not, they have at least a short list of clients that are known to be able > to tune in. Yes your right. I also want to get people into going to these sites. There's _real_ information there. The directory is a directory, and it will never be a substitute for the broadcasters webpages. > Locking the field is fine.. but I think this goes back to separating the > front-end from the back-end. Listing it in the directory listings is just > silly IMHO. It's even sillier if the admin only wants to support > technology X, as it would just be the same redundant information repeated > over and over for every station, wasting screen real estate and bandwidth both. Ah, in general I'm not dicussing here what's shown on screen. Only how the information is stored and used. Once we lock this down, I imagine we'll ahve 101 good ideas about how to present this information in a good way. That's the hard part :) > 1. Icecast needs better metadata support, and hopefully the template idea > we return to in a bit. Icecast 2 has it. Ogg has much better metadata than mp3. Icecast passes that on just fine. it will also pull it out of the stream and use it however you want. This is the plan. There will also be another ogg substream for metadata only. This will allow you to do all kinds of wacky stuff. It's not done yet though. In the meantime you'll have much better metadata support than shoutcast to tide you over. > 2. Winamp needs Ogg support by default, or at least via a reliable plugin; > both in decoding and encoding. I'm not sure why this didn't make it into 2.77. But I've been told it's expected for 2.78. They have to get it approved or something. It'll be there. The current plugin is quite reliable now. After lots of testing on people's test icecast2 streams I think Peter has nailed most of the bugs. Also, the Windows Media Player plugins support streaming as well. And if I ever finish the RealPlayer one, it will too. > I still occasionally have problems with the metadata streaming on Icecast > if I leave the stream up for a log period of time, and Winamp is by far the > client that is most widely used to listen to the stream. I also prefer > Winamp for my source, because all of my workstation boxes are Windows > based.. that won't be changing any time soon. Icecast 1.x metadata is crap. I know it's crap. You guys know it's crap. It isn't crap in 2.x. :) > I think that at-best this TTL field should be more accurately named MAXTTL > unless you intend to disallow updates to the directory while the TTL is > still non-zero. Intent is the same, but your suggestion is certainly clearer. > Also, there are other time dependant pieces of information you seem to be > overlooking here such as Stream Title (mine changes depending on the name > of the current show), Track Title (obviously changes frequently, and at > strange intervals) and others. The only title in the directory is the title of the station. This is a constant. Show titles and song titles are transmitted in the comment headers for vorbis streams or in mp3-metadata. > What you're basically doing here in any respect is building a DoS into the > software on purpose. If you've never used something like Gnutella then it > may not be so obvious, but I guarantee it'll only be a matter of time > before software pops up that spams the server with multiple "streams" > showing music in every conceivable genre so as to get their stream listed > no matter what preferences the listener decides to sort the listing with. It's easy enough to stop this kind of attack, even automatically. Note that having every server send updates every 2 seconds is also going to be a problem. I'm trying to find some reasonable compromise. We can't 100% stop cheating. But I can certainly make cheating 'different'. Taking away the listener count removes a strong temptation to cheat. The idea is that if the temptation is weakened, cheating will not be as big of a problem. > This should without a doubt be an admin tunable knob, not something to be > set by clients. If you intend this directory lister to achieve widespread > use, especially as the software-of-choice for running public directory > servers, this must absolutely not be tuneable by the client. I'm not sure what you mean. If you mean MAXTTL, it's certainly reasonable that this be tunable by the client within some acceptable range. My current thoughts were 5 minutes to 1 day. That way sites that are very stable, can be nice about the amount udpates they do. especially since there's no time dependent data, this makes things more efficient. Certainly someone can abuse things and set the thing to 1 day and then take down there stream. But there are programmatic ways to check on people in the interest of keeping the directory content valid. > Applied Cryptography begs to differ with you. > > Sending a hash across the network is no more secure than sending a > cleartext password, if all that is required to authenticate is the > hash. What you really need is something like Diffie-Hellman to do the > negotiation, or a public-key system. This is not to protect against sniffing. This is to protect against spoofing and stealing. It is certainly adequate to do that. It would be unreasonable to bruteforce the 'password'. When I 'check' the password on the other server, I certainly won't be transmitting it :) There will be some challenge response type action going on. We don't need absolute security. We need security to protect against specific attacks. If you'd like me to outline these in detail, I can in a separate email. I have notes on the attacks and how these methods prevent them and also on which attacks are still possible. > The request-and-parse approach is horribly inefficient. It requires me to > set up some kind of cron job or server side scripting to do this step and > then convert the output to the format I wish to display on the main site > for the stream. This causes linearly increasing load on a single machine > instead of distributing that load among all the mirrors. > > I realize I can do the things you've listed, and have done them in the > past.. but it's just horribly time consuming and process consuming compared > to simply using SSI in Apache to request a URL from the remote stream and > having a template that is one row in a table. The answer to this may be XSLT. It is probably easy enough for me to put XSLT capability into icecast. This would allow you to specfy a template to transform stats.xml (or some other xml). That would give you the output you want. The downside here is that icecast is processing something. As more clients want to view this template icecast will do more processing. Request and parse, while more inefficient for a few clients, is way more efficient for many clients. In a large scale environment you wouldn't use either of these methods. You'd write a stats client that listens on teh stats port and gets hte updates in realtime (note that this _already_ works now). Then you can do processing without involving icecast, and without request/parse/output overhead. In the end, it's likely we will support all three models. There's nothing difficult about any of them. I hadn't thought about the XSLT stuff, but that is an elegant way to do it. jack. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From jack at xiph.org Thu Oct 18 02:25:59 2001 From: jack at xiph.org (Jack Moffitt) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 20:25:59 -0600 Subject: [icecast] a new directory service In-Reply-To: <3BA6BE3F.000001.01284@TTC-20625> Message-ID: <20011017202559.P10106@i.cantcode.com> I am not averse to making time-dependent information available. But it does not fit in this model. We have to change the model to accomodate time-dependent information, and I'm not willing to use the model that has been use in the past, which was to treat both types of information as identical and just accept all the inconsistencies and problems. And easy solution is to let clients query for this data from the server. It solves the problem (access to the time-dependent information) and makes sure that the information is always accurate. > I also don't like the idea of a client sending out 100 requests to all > listed servers to say, "Hey, what are you playing". Flashbacks from > RadioSpy... RadioSpy suffered from many problems unrelated to this model of doing things. What we're doing is not exactly the same. That being said, let's disucss the pros and cons. What is your objection to making the server responsible for time-dependent data? jack. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From jack at xiph.org Thu Oct 18 02:39:22 2001 From: jack at xiph.org (Jack Moffitt) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 20:39:22 -0600 Subject: [icecast] a new directory service In-Reply-To: <20010917182231.PKTY19248.femail32.sdc1.sfba.home.com@there> Message-ID: <20011017203922.Q10106@i.cantcode.com> > All of these need to be adressed - I'm all for what you are proposing Jack, > and am thrilled that such a discussion has been created on the topic.. But > these aren't little questions, and I think that finding an alternate solution > for the specific issue of popularity-at-a-glance is a worthy subject rather > than pursuing the notion that a measure of popularity or listener count can > be somehow replaced or ignored.. yes, this discussion is important, and these questions are good ones. Now, acknowledging that a quick 'what's cool' glance is desired and/or a 'what's popular' metric, is there a way to do this outside of pure listener counts? I think there is. And I think there are a few ways to do these... - reviews/ratings. you can make this so a quick glance is possible. you can certainly have 'charts' as you described without using listener count. and the charts you refer to are not done by listener counts always. - volunteer organization. someone can manually make charts. this is probably not a practical idea, but it's worth discussing. it may be possible to code enough of it to make it practical. human filtering is the best kind. :) - some metric based on clicks through to the stream. we can measure this from the directory server. we can't measure this well unless we're the primary interface, which i'm going to assume we won't be. but surely there's some implied information we can glean from logs and user habits. I think any of these things would result in a better system than one based on listener counts. Most of the impetus for internet radio and peer broadcasting is choice and selection and getting away from listening to top-40 radio or what 8 songs are cool in the whiney-bitch-rock genre this month. jack. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From jack at xiph.org Thu Oct 18 02:42:57 2001 From: jack at xiph.org (Jack Moffitt) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 20:42:57 -0600 Subject: [icecast] a new directory service In-Reply-To: <20010917150315.A17176@veris.org> Message-ID: <20011017204257.R10106@i.cantcode.com> > I'd love to see the backend connection to the directory server being > run through an SSL tunnel. Not being a programmer, though, I don't know of > the scope of effort it would take to implement that. Something for Jack to > answer. It would take a bit of effort. And it would also be totally useless. What benefit would it provide? You're publishing the information publically anyway :) jack. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From primus at veris.org Thu Oct 18 02:49:16 2001 From: primus at veris.org (Ethan Butterfield) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 19:49:16 -0700 Subject: [icecast] a new directory service In-Reply-To: <20011017204257.R10106@i.cantcode.com> Message-ID: <20011017194916.A2453@veris.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 08:42:57PM -0600, Jack Moffitt wrote: > It would take a bit of effort. And it would also be totally useless. > What benefit would it provide? You're publishing the information > publically anyway :) A fully-encrypted connection would nearly eliminate the possibility of a man-in-the-middle attack either hijacking the session or surreptitiously switching bits mid-stream and changing the traffic on the fly. - -- "Nothing's the same anymore." - Cmdr. Jeffrey Sinclair, Babylon-5, "Chrysalis" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7zkMsAmwSMwnpLHgRAsu+AJ4zqAdOl/YvLINaOq0V/w10BWOL2wCgqzSY AfgoZN1otmDH7CTHcEfDU/k= =Rei/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From jack at xiph.org Thu Oct 18 02:54:40 2001 From: jack at xiph.org (Jack Moffitt) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 20:54:40 -0600 Subject: [icecast] Newbie question - on demand streaming? In-Reply-To: <64775.194.222.87.49.1002624090.squirrel@secure.musicmine.net> Message-ID: <20011017205440.S10106@i.cantcode.com> > Well, a number of reasons. Dedicated streamers are better at streaming > audio/video than webservers, In theory. In practice this is not true. Apache is far more robust than any streaming server I've seen yet, and far more stable. Many of the scaling issues have been addressed, and the drawbacks are minimal. Streaming servers should be better for two reaosns. 1) they can be more efficient. they are serving a very specific kind of data. 2) they can use protocols like RTP to improve quality. Neither of these things is true of any server yet. Apache offers more functionality and works better than the alternatives for on demand streaming. Once more clients use RTP then there's a large case for using a streaming media server for on-demand as opposed to using apache. As right now they both use TCP and most HTTP too, it's better to use the better tool. > al. .m3u files suck (which is how I presume you feel I should be streaming > from my webserver).....I seem to remember you have to play around with mime > types et al. Use a simple cgi script or some such to autogenerate m3u's and set mimetypes correctly. This is trivial. > Dedicated streaming gives me the ability to do livek > broadcasts and thus gives me greater flexability than just using my > webserver. I wasn't talking about live streams or even simulated live streams. I'm only proposing apache for on-demand streaming of static content. Hell, it even supports seeking. > Webservers are intended for delivering markup language and are > good at it. This was true years ago. Webservers are now built for serving general data over the HTTP protocol. They commonly do serve large files, and HTTP has replace FTP in most cases for file download. Web server evolved to handle generic data more and more, and teh fact that they have been around forever, have lots of tool support, and lots of configurability makes them the right tool for the on-demand streaming job on today's internet. > Seperating duties tends to give a nicely cohesive environment...i.e. My > webserver dishes up web pages, my audio server dishes up audio. Nice > design principles in there somewhere. etc etc.....I could go on. You can use the same argument a different way to argue for keeping them together. They both travel over HTTP. Use a common server. When audio data starts getting pumped over RTP or some other non-HTTP protocol, then there is a strong case for not using a web server. > The reason I wanna go Icecast is that I'd like a truly GPL'd environment, > not some pseudo one like Shoutcast. Apache is also Free Software. > So lets just take it for given that I'm mad and that I'm gonna use a > dedicated streamer such as Icecast. Can I make it behave like Shoutcast's > on demand feature detailed in my original mail? Yes. The support is there, but it's not great. The staticdir config option points to a dir of files. And then you can access these at http://url:port/files/blah.mp3. Note that it probably won't generate m3u's for you. I have forgotten if it does that or not. jack. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From jack at xiph.org Thu Oct 18 02:57:13 2001 From: jack at xiph.org (Jack Moffitt) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 20:57:13 -0600 Subject: [icecast] a new directory service In-Reply-To: <20011017194916.A2453@veris.org> Message-ID: <20011017205713.T10106@i.cantcode.com> > A fully-encrypted connection would nearly eliminate the possibility of a > man-in-the-middle attack either hijacking the session or surreptitiously > switching bits mid-stream and changing the traffic on the fly. A man-in-the-middle attack is not easy to pull off. If you can show me why some person would be incented to attack someone like this, then maybe there is a case for it. As it stands, if you want to change the data, it's much easier to break into the directory server itself than it would be to perform a man in the middle attack in my opinion. Or easier to break into the source computer and do it there. I see no reason why anyone would go to such great lengths to alter the data in question. jack. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From all at biosys.net Thu Oct 18 03:23:13 2001 From: all at biosys.net (Allen Landsidel) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 23:23:13 -0400 Subject: [icecast] a new directory service In-Reply-To: <20011017201904.O10106@i.cantcode.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011017230640.00ab9f70@rfnj.org> At 08:19 PM 10/17/2001 -0600, you wrote: >I apologize for the delay in response time :) > >I got busy. Now I'm back :) Cool, and you replied to me first! ;) > > over and over for every station, wasting screen real estate and > bandwidth both. > >Ah, in general I'm not dicussing here what's shown on screen. Only how >the information is stored and used. Once we lock this down, I imagine >we'll ahve 101 good ideas about how to present this information in a >good way. That's the hard part :) Roger that. >There will also be another ogg substream for metadata only. This will >allow you to do all kinds of wacky stuff. It's not done yet though. In >the meantime you'll have much better metadata support than shoutcast to >tide you over. Right on. >I'm not sure why this didn't make it into 2.77. But I've been told it's >expected for 2.78. They have to get it approved or something. It'll be >there. Hopefully.. considering their DSP guy and a handful of others were laid off.. the new DSP they have really blows too so I'm forced into using the old one.. oh well. >The current plugin is quite reliable now. After lots of testing on >people's test icecast2 streams I think Peter has nailed most of the >bugs. Also, the Windows Media Player plugins support streaming as well. >And if I ever finish the RealPlayer one, it will too. Oh that's cool.. and I assume the WMP plugin is available through the wacky MS codec plugin thing, so that it can automagically find and download it if it needs to? That's just as good as default support, if not plain better. >Icecast 1.x metadata is crap. I know it's crap. You guys know it's >crap. It isn't crap in 2.x. :) Consider yourself quoted on that. ;) >Intent is the same, but your suggestion is certainly clearer. Ah ok cool. >The only title in the directory is the title of the station. This is a >constant. Show titles and song titles are transmitted in the comment >headers for vorbis streams or in mp3-metadata. Well since this was cleared up with the (max)TTL discussion paragraph just before this, it's a non-issue. >It's easy enough to stop this kind of attack, even automatically. Note >that having every server send updates every 2 seconds is also going to >be a problem. I'm trying to find some reasonable compromise. We can't >100% stop cheating. But I can certainly make cheating 'different'. >Taking away the listener count removes a strong temptation to cheat. >The idea is that if the temptation is weakened, cheating will not be as >big of a problem. True enough, but I would still like to see it there.. If it's not listed in this directory in particular that's not a big deal I suppose, as long as Icecast maintains the capability of connecting to multiple servers and types of servers simultaneously. I've actually been looking for some YP "out there" to run myself for some of the reasons that went back and forth in this thread. The most compelling one being that I want to get nice, homogenous statistics from all my servers, be they Icecast, Shoutcast, or something else, without mucking around with template files for each one. I figured if I could just get them all on the same YP, by configuring Icecast and faking out Shoutcast via some ipfw/natd trickery, that I could generate the page fragments I want off the YP and stop worrying about the server software doing it.. but listener counts is one thing I really need here if just for my station homepage. If you could point me in the direction of where I can find one of these I'd appreciate it.. unless you'd rather I wait until the new project we're discussing is ready. ;) > > This should without a doubt be an admin tunable knob, not something to be > > set by clients. If you intend this directory lister to achieve widespread > > use, especially as the software-of-choice for running public directory > > servers, this must absolutely not be tuneable by the client. > >I'm not sure what you mean. If you mean MAXTTL, it's certainly I was talking about listener counts, not MAXTTL. > > Applied Cryptography begs to differ with you. > > > > Sending a hash across the network is no more secure than sending a > > cleartext password, if all that is required to authenticate is the > > hash. What you really need is something like Diffie-Hellman to do the > > negotiation, or a public-key system. > >This is not to protect against sniffing. This is to protect against >spoofing and stealing. It is certainly adequate to do that. It would >be unreasonable to bruteforce the 'password'. Well it's not protecting against spoofing either. Someone can sniff the hash and then they don't have to spoof, they can connect and send the hash without ever knowing the password that it was before it was hashed. What you really need for reliable client-server authentication is a challenge-response system (like NT password authentication or Kerberos) or an encrypted transport layer (like SSL or SSH). >When I 'check' the password on the other server, I certainly won't be >transmitting it :) There will be some challenge response type action >going on. There we go.. challenge response. :) >We don't need absolute security. We need security to protect against >specific attacks. If you'd like me to outline these in detail, I can in >a separate email. I have notes on the attacks and how these methods >prevent them and also on which attacks are still possible. I'm always interested in this sort of thing, and as you've probably guessed, very forthcoming with my technical critique. ;) >In the end, it's likely we will support all three models. There's >nothing difficult about any of them. I hadn't thought about the XSLT >stuff, but that is an elegant way to do it. Cool enough. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From all at biosys.net Thu Oct 18 03:34:37 2001 From: all at biosys.net (Allen Landsidel) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 23:34:37 -0400 Subject: [icecast] a new directory service In-Reply-To: <20011017205713.T10106@i.cantcode.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011017232616.00b0fcb0@rfnj.org> At 08:57 PM 10/17/2001 -0600, you wrote: > > A fully-encrypted connection would nearly eliminate the possibility of a > > man-in-the-middle attack either hijacking the session or surreptitiously > > switching bits mid-stream and changing the traffic on the fly. > >A man-in-the-middle attack is not easy to pull off. If you can show me >why some person would be incented to attack someone like this, then >maybe there is a case for it. I have (of course) two things to add here.. ;) #1 To the first fella.. encrypted data transfer does not prevent a man in the middle attack if there is any kind of authentication going on. At some point the client and server have to trade keys. At this point the data can be snooped (in the case of an exchange of plaintext, passwords for instance) or hijacked (in the case of something like diffie-hellman). The only way to really stop a MitM attack is to use some form of public key cryptography, and verify that you have the correct key through multiple, independant sources.. say call Jack on the phone and verify the key fingerprint; this is only truely secure however if you know Jacks voice and can be sure he doesn't have a gun to his head.. ;) #2 To Jack.. Anyone who has an interest in promoting their station above others has an interest in this. If they can either (as currently) lie about listener counts to rocket to the top of the list, or (in a listener count-less system) do something like hijack or fake out other connections to say.. blank out the correct URL, or update the server with meaningless data, they'll do it. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From jack at xiph.org Thu Oct 18 03:33:23 2001 From: jack at xiph.org (Jack Moffitt) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 21:33:23 -0600 Subject: [icecast] a new directory service In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20011017230640.00ab9f70@rfnj.org> Message-ID: <20011017213323.V10106@i.cantcode.com> > Hopefully.. considering their DSP guy and a handful of others were laid > off.. the new DSP they have really blows too so I'm forced into using the > old one.. oh well. The ogg plugin author was not an employee. He was a contractor. He's still working on the plugin regardless. > Oh that's cool.. and I assume the WMP plugin is available through the wacky > MS codec plugin thing, so that it can automagically find and download it if > it needs to? That's just as good as default support, if not plain better. I doubt microsoft will do that, but you never know. For now it's a download (but it's a very nice and easy installer. a no brainer). We're trying to find a way to make this automatic when you hit a webpage possibly. We'll see. It only gets better from here :) > >I'm not sure what you mean. If you mean MAXTTL, it's certainly > > I was talking about listener counts, not MAXTTL. It doesn't matter whether listener counts are configurable by the user. users will cheat anyway. Certainly shoutcast does not allow you to change these, and you can still cheat in numerous ways. If you mean controlling whether it's displayed on the server, then certainly those are server-configurable only :) That's the only logical way for them to be :) > Well it's not protecting against spoofing either. Yes it is. To spoof the address you'd have to guess the password. That is reasonable difficult. > Someone can sniff the > hash and then they don't have to spoof, Sniffing is quite difficult. If you can sniff, you've likely gotten onto the box anyway and can cause other michief. The chances of someone on your network wanting to muck with you is slim, and even so, challenge response prevents this. You can still sniff the transmission to the directory server, since it will need to receive the password. But like I said, this isn't perfect, just quite adequate for our purposes and very easy to implement and manage. jack. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From jack at xiph.org Thu Oct 18 03:43:48 2001 From: jack at xiph.org (Jack Moffitt) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 21:43:48 -0600 Subject: [icecast] a new directory service In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20011017232616.00b0fcb0@rfnj.org> Message-ID: <20011017214348.X10106@i.cantcode.com> > #2 To Jack.. Anyone who has an interest in promoting their station above > others has an interest in this. If they can either (as currently) lie > about listener counts to rocket to the top of the list, or (in a listener > count-less system) do something like hijack or fake out other connections > to say.. blank out the correct URL, or update the server with meaningless > data, they'll do it. Performing a man-in-the-middle attack is quite difficult, certainly out of the range of many broadcasters. Maybe some one could do it, but it's easily noticeable. The chances of someone sucessfully attacking a target of their choice is quite slim in this system, unless they can assume control of the server machine or assume control of the source machine. In either of those situations, it would matter little what security method was used. The chances of randomly finding an attackable server (say by sniffing on your dorm network) is also slim. If this becomes a practical problem, there are certainly practical solutions. We can address it when we get there. If changing data on your own stream is easy (which it always is) and it affects your listing, people will do it; I agree with you. There is little incentive (besides random mischief) to alter others. And doing so is sufficiently difficult for practical purposes and so I feel this is an effective measure. It's certainly far improved from what's being commonly used now, and if needed, we can add more. Public keys are not really as easy to use as everyone would like. If needed it can be done. And I have no doubts that at some point something like this will get in there, but there's little reason to do so right now. But like I said, these decisions and thoughts are based on common scenarios, both that I've seen happen, and that I have figured out on my own. Preventing those scenarios is my goal, not absolute security. If you think there are scenarios that aren't being considered, or you feel strongly that sniffing attacks are sufficiently dangerous, then by all means speak up :) But I feel that for now we have 'enough' for current purposes. We can always change the amount. jack. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From primus at veris.org Thu Oct 18 03:44:45 2001 From: primus at veris.org (Ethan Butterfield) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 20:44:45 -0700 Subject: [icecast] a new directory service In-Reply-To: <20011017205713.T10106@i.cantcode.com> Message-ID: <20011017204445.B2507@veris.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 08:57:13PM -0600, Jack Moffitt wrote: > A man-in-the-middle attack is not easy to pull off. If you can show me > why some person would be incented to attack someone like this, then > maybe there is a case for it. > Two easy motivations. #1 is deliberate sabotage. Let's say my station is not doing so well in the listings. I go after those who are doing well, and mess with their streamed information. Maybe re-point their URLs to me in order to hijack new users. #2 would just be wanton vandalism. If an exploit is found, you can be sure the s'kiddies will use it just because they're s'kiddies. > As it stands, if you want to change the data, it's much easier to break > into the directory server itself than it would be to perform a man in > the middle attack in my opinion. Or easier to break into the source > computer and do it there. > Oh, I concur. Personally, I'd go after whoever is hosting the directory server and attempt to social engineer my way into access. But remember, that's actual work. My fear is the exploit-s'kiddie problem. > I see no reason why anyone would go to such great lengths to alter the > data in question. I see no reason why anyone would constantly scan huge netblocks of cable modem users, looking for the occasional target to haX0r. But that doesn't stop the people who do. And to Allen, yes, I know that it wouldn't stop all MitM attacks. That's why I said "nearly eliminate". Hell, I'd rather all traffic be fully IPSec'd (ESP + AH) all the time, but that's just not feasible. Frankly, I don't know if the data involved is worth the overhead of even an SSL connection, much less some full key-exchange method. In the end, I'm just tossing out some ideas. I'm not the one who's actually going to code this, after all. :) - -- "Nothing's the same anymore." - Cmdr. Jeffrey Sinclair, Babylon-5, "Chrysalis" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7zlAsAmwSMwnpLHgRAmEQAJ9HO9FOIEHkYjTHGqYN+9oMpFP3ZQCaAxwL Dchd5fHXKvzMUzikXbS7+mc= =quuS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From all at biosys.net Thu Oct 18 03:49:03 2001 From: all at biosys.net (Allen Landsidel) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 23:49:03 -0400 Subject: [icecast] a new directory service In-Reply-To: <20011017213323.V10106@i.cantcode.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011017234001.00b0f580@rfnj.org> At 09:33 PM 10/17/2001 -0600, you wrote: >The ogg plugin author was not an employee. He was a contractor. He's >still working on the plugin regardless. Ah ok.. and is this plugin a general winamp plugin or a codec to plugin to the DSP? That's why I am concerned.. if it's a winamp plugin, that's cool. If it's a codec plugin then it's bogus, because the last version of the DSP doesn't support different codecs.. you're forced into using LAME and that's it. As I said, the new DSP sucks. ;) >possibly. We'll see. It only gets better from here :) Ah ok.. cool enough. > > I was talking about listener counts, not MAXTTL. >If you mean controlling whether it's displayed on the server, then >certainly those are server-configurable only :) That's the only logical >way for them to be :) Yes.. you were so vehemently against the idea of listener counts that I was thinking that you weren't going to have support for them in any way, shape or form in this new project.. that's why I mentioned it. ;) >Sniffing is quite difficult. If you can sniff, you've likely gotten >onto the box anyway and can cause other michief. The chances of someone >on your network wanting to muck with you is slim, and even so, challenge >response prevents this. Well to sniff they just have to compromise any box on the network, not just one. Even if it's switched, they can blow through the switch with bogus ARP storms.. most (if not all) switches fail-open if their table fills up. Anyway, point taken about challenge response. There still are ways of course, but there always are, short of meeting in a dark alley and exchanging cd's with keys on them. ;) As you said.. not perfect, but adequate. As long as there is some sort of challenge-response. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From jack at xiph.org Thu Oct 18 03:51:35 2001 From: jack at xiph.org (Jack Moffitt) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 21:51:35 -0600 Subject: [icecast] a new directory service In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20011017234001.00b0f580@rfnj.org> Message-ID: <20011017215135.Z10106@i.cantcode.com> > Ah ok.. and is this plugin a general winamp plugin or a codec to plugin to > the DSP? That's why I am concerned.. if it's a winamp plugin, that's > cool. If it's a codec plugin then it's bogus, because the last version of > the DSP doesn't support different codecs.. you're forced into using LAME > and that's it. As I said, the new DSP sucks. ;) It's an input plugin to be specific. Oddsock has created a winamp dsp plugin that supports ogg streaming (and has a good one for mp3 streaming too). Those are actively maintained, right Oddsock? :) > > > I was talking about listener counts, not MAXTTL. > >If you mean controlling whether it's displayed on the server, then > >certainly those are server-configurable only :) That's the only logical > >way for them to be :) > > Yes.. you were so vehemently against the idea of listener counts that I was > thinking that you weren't going to have support for them in any way, shape > or form in this new project.. that's why I mentioned it. ;) I haven't decided yet. I still don't see a value in that specific piece of data, but I agree the uses people have for them are important. I'm just trying to find an alternative. jack. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From jack at xiph.org Thu Oct 18 03:54:13 2001 From: jack at xiph.org (Jack Moffitt) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 21:54:13 -0600 Subject: [icecast] a new directory service In-Reply-To: <20011017204445.B2507@veris.org> Message-ID: <20011017215413.A10106@i.cantcode.com> > My fear is the exploit-s'kiddie problem. Are there common exploits for man-in-the-middle? I've never seen one. I've seen rootkits, crackers, DoS tools, etc. But never anything as sophisticated as mitm. > I see no reason why anyone would constantly scan huge netblocks of cable > modem users, looking for the occasional target to haX0r. But that doesn't > stop the people who do. This is different from mitm. Scanning and trying rootkits is trivial. mitm is not. It's a different kind of attack. It's probably one of the most sophisticated, and the most dangerous if pulled off in the right situations. jack. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From all at biosys.net Thu Oct 18 04:00:24 2001 From: all at biosys.net (Allen Landsidel) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 00:00:24 -0400 Subject: [icecast] a new directory service In-Reply-To: <20011017214348.X10106@i.cantcode.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011017235004.00b1fe88@rfnj.org> At 09:43 PM 10/17/2001 -0600, you wrote: >The chances of someone sucessfully attacking a target of their choice is >quite slim in this system, unless they can assume control of the server >machine or assume control of the source machine. In either of those >situations, it would matter little what security method was used. Well they can also attack any system in between to set up a Mallory (as the guy in the middle is called) and dupe you. It's just a matter of intercepting the packets bound for the directory server, connecting them to your own, and then connecting from your directory server to the real one. Then you're altering things in real time, and it's totally transparent.. This is a "big" problem no matter what sort of double-blind system you use however. >Public keys are not really as easy to use as everyone would like. If >needed it can be done. And I have no doubts that at some point >something like this will get in there, but there's little reason to do >so right now. Well I beg to differ on the first point. A simple method is to just have the server generate it's keypair on initial startup/installation and then serve up the public key when requested. It's a little harder on machines on both ends to do the encryption, but horsepower is disgustingly cheap these days. Consider the following simple protocol: 1) Client connects to server and downloads the servers public key. 2) Client encrypts it's own public key (or a private per-session key) with the key it downloaded in step #1 and sends it. 3) Both ends initiate encrypted communication. This is simple and perfectly secure so long as the client trusts that it indeed got the actual servers public key. This can be accomplished by using multiple methods of key verification, or by using a known-good public key server which signs the key transfer with it's own known-good key. There are several packages out there that can automate a great deal of this in code.. it's just a matter of using a wrapper for all your socket calls that has an internal "encrypted=true|false" state. This isn't foolproof itself to a determined adversary, but it would stop all but the most determined and sophisticated attacks. >If you think there are scenarios that aren't being considered, or you >feel strongly that sniffing attacks are sufficiently dangerous, then by >all means speak up :) I just did. ;) I don't think that the situation currently warrants this level of paranoia; However, I don't think it would add any harm or much effort to add it in. Kind of like not limiting ourselves to 640K like someone once did for us.. still haunting us in some ways to this very day. ;) --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From primus at veris.org Thu Oct 18 04:34:40 2001 From: primus at veris.org (Ethan Butterfield) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 21:34:40 -0700 Subject: [icecast] a new directory service In-Reply-To: <20011017215413.A10106@i.cantcode.com> Message-ID: <20011017213440.A2671@veris.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 09:54:13PM -0600, Jack Moffitt wrote: > Are there common exploits for man-in-the-middle? I've never seen one. > MitMs used to be pretty uncommon. The ARP & WEP vulnerabilities that came out at Blackhat in July, though, have started to change that. - -- "Nothing's the same anymore." - Cmdr. Jeffrey Sinclair, Babylon-5, "Chrysalis" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7zlvfAmwSMwnpLHgRArIlAJ4/UOk9M5ZNGcuVVdnmVf1vYbZg+gCfSwOf 0siMxZAZtgU3Nw2bF7RfZa0= =Q/9L -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From darkeye at tyrell.hu Thu Oct 18 06:21:11 2001 From: darkeye at tyrell.hu (Akos Maroy) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 09:21:11 +0300 Subject: [icecast] Newbie question - on demand streaming? In-Reply-To: <20011017205440.S10106@i.cantcode.com> Message-ID: <3BCE74D7.70987105@tyrell.hu> Jack Moffitt wrote: > Once more clients use RTP then there's a large case for using a > streaming media server for on-demand as opposed to using apache. As > right now they both use TCP and most HTTP too, it's better to use the > better tool. Any chance of seeing a UDP-based transport for icecast in the near future? Also, downscaling in case of degrading bandwith? Akos --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From jack at xiph.org Thu Oct 18 06:25:07 2001 From: jack at xiph.org (Jack Moffitt) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 00:25:07 -0600 Subject: [icecast] Newbie question - on demand streaming? In-Reply-To: <3BCE74D7.70987105@tyrell.hu> Message-ID: <20011018002507.E10106@i.cantcode.com> > Any chance of seeing a UDP-based transport for icecast in the near > future? Also, downscaling in case of degrading bandwith? Icecast 3 :) It's a bit off, but will will have some stuff to play with soon. Erik Kruus has been working on multicast vorbis, and is almost done. As for downscaling, or peeling as we call it, that should come shortly before/after vorbis 1.0. Hopefully before, but the tools will be crude for a bit. jack. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From darkeye at tyrell.hu Thu Oct 18 06:48:11 2001 From: darkeye at tyrell.hu (Akos Maroy) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 09:48:11 +0300 Subject: [icecast] question on downsampling Message-ID: <3BCE7B2B.6489C691@tyrell.hu> Hi, Maybe a bit off topic for this list, bt anyway. I have received several feature requests for DarkIce to support downsampling of the audio input before passing it to lame or ogg vorbis. For example the audio read from the soundcard would be 44.1kHz, and lame would get it at 22.05kHz. I figure two ways of doing this: 1. For lame, one can specify the input and the desired mp3 sampling rate, and lame will downsample the data as needed. I didn't find such possibility for vorbis. For lame, this increases the processing need quite a lot (almost double as I measure). 2. Downsample in DarkIce, by simple means. For example, from 44.1kHz -> 22.05kHz, simply send one sample for every two imput samples, taking their average value. This shouldn't result in large computing overhead, and I could also do it for vorbis. As there are people on the list more clever than me, I'd like to know what downsides are there for point 2? Thanks, Akos --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From jack at xiph.org Thu Oct 18 07:16:03 2001 From: jack at xiph.org (Jack Moffitt) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 01:16:03 -0600 Subject: [icecast] question on downsampling In-Reply-To: <3BCE7B2B.6489C691@tyrell.hu> Message-ID: <20011018011603.F10106@i.cantcode.com> > 2. Downsample in DarkIce, by simple means. For example, from 44.1kHz -> > 22.05kHz, simply send one sample for every two imput samples, taking > their average value. This shouldn't result in large computing overhead, > and I could also do it for vorbis. This isn't good enough. Just rip out lame's downsampling code (or sox's) and use that (as long as your also under a compatible license). Those are both pretty good. Averaging every two samples just doesn't cut it :) jack. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From jaromil at dyne.org Thu Oct 18 07:45:17 2001 From: jaromil at dyne.org (jaromil) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 09:45:17 +0200 Subject: [icecast] question on downsampling In-Reply-To: <3BCE7B2B.6489C691@tyrell.hu> Message-ID: <20011018094517.A508@dyne.org> On Thu, Oct 18, 2001 at 09:48:11AM +0300, Akos Maroy wrote: > 2. Downsample in DarkIce, by simple means. For example, from 44.1kHz -> > 22.05kHz, simply send one sample for every two imput samples, taking > their average value. This shouldn't result in large computing overhead, > and I could also do it for vorbis. > > As there are people on the list more clever than me, I'd like to know > what downsides are there for point 2? you can have a look into the resampling code of MuSE, in particular audioproc.cpp which contains different procedures for resampling while mixing (for better efficiency, we don't want to process all the bytes twice, better do both operations in once). the core algorithm plays with resolution by doing bitshift of array indexes, resulting in a better interpolation than the procedure you describe here. i.e: int mixxx_stereo_22(int *dest, short *chan, int num, float volume) { int c, off,tnum = (num<<1); int delta = (num << 16) / tnum; for(c=0,off=0;c> 16]*volume)); this resamples 22 to 44 while also adding it to the mixing buffer dest[]. alltough there are more exact ways to do it, this looks to me the better compromise in performance and accuracy. i found this algo into the speed resampling plugin of xmms, by jammet-at-lionking.org, which originally was formulated to resample at any frequency: #define DO_PITCH(type, length, newlength, buffer, newbuffer) \ { \ int delta = (length << 16) / newlength, i, off; \ type *ptr = (type *)buffer, *newptr = (type *)newbuffer; \ for(i = 0, off = 0; i < newlength; i++, off += delta) \ *newptr++ = ptr[off >> 16]; \ } by using this you just need to calculate lenght proportions into your resampling. greetings -- jaromil //dyne.org - GPG fingerprint and ___id____ 6EEE 4FB2 2555 7ACD 8496 AB99 E2A2 93B4 6C62 4800 --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From darkeye at tyrell.hu Thu Oct 18 07:54:55 2001 From: darkeye at tyrell.hu (Akos Maroy) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 10:54:55 +0300 Subject: [icecast] question on downsampling In-Reply-To: <20011018011603.F10106@i.cantcode.com> Message-ID: <3BCE8ACF.80801@tyrell.hu> Jack Moffitt wrote: > This isn't good enough. Just rip out lame's downsampling code (or > sox's) and use that (as long as your also under a compatible license). DarkIce is GPL, should be OK. > Those are both pretty good. Averaging every two samples just doesn't > cut it :) I thought so :( But I wouldn't need to rip out the code, if vorbis supported downsampling as well. Thanks anyway, Akos --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From harvey at buskers.org Thu Oct 18 08:35:00 2001 From: harvey at buskers.org (harvey smith) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 04:35:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [icecast] question on downsampling In-Reply-To: <3BCE7B2B.6489C691@tyrell.hu> Message-ID: On Thu, 18 Oct 2001, Akos Maroy wrote: > I have received several feature requests for DarkIce to support > downsampling of the audio input before passing it to lame or ogg vorbis. > For example the audio read from the soundcard would be 44.1kHz, and lame > would get it at 22.05kHz. I just a poor boy and only have a p233. But I just open my sound card at 22.05 to begin with and then don't need to resample. I guess this wouldn't work if you need the 44.1 for something else too (like when doing both a HQ stream and a Low-fi one) Last I checked ogg vorbis only did 44.1kHz, this question implies it can do 22.05kHz now... must be time to go get the latest ; - ) harvey --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From darkeye at tyrell.hu Thu Oct 18 08:48:57 2001 From: darkeye at tyrell.hu (Akos Maroy) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 11:48:57 +0300 Subject: [icecast] question on downsampling In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3BCE9779.9030308@tyrell.hu> harvey smith wrote: > I just a poor boy and only have a p233. But I just open my sound > card at 22.05 to begin with and then don't need to resample. I > guess this wouldn't work if you need the 44.1 for something else too > (like when doing both a HQ stream and a Low-fi one) This is the exact nature of the feature request :) > Last I checked ogg vorbis only did 44.1kHz, this question implies it > can do 22.05kHz now... must be time to go get the latest ; - ) The sound quality is quite bad at 22.05kHz, I suppose you stick to 44.1. Also they say this in the documentation... Akos --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From Robin_Blanchard at gactr.uga.edu Thu Oct 18 12:19:42 2001 From: Robin_Blanchard at gactr.uga.edu (Robin P. Blanchard) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 08:19:42 -0400 Subject: [icecast] question on downsampling In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3BCEC8DE.D76B5FE6@gactr.uga.edu> > I just a poor boy and only have a p233. But I just open my sound > card at 22.05 to begin with and then don't need to resample. I > guess this wouldn't work if you need the 44.1 for something else too > (like when doing both a HQ stream and a Low-fi one) well, a poor boy like me uses a dual pentium pro 200 running both icecast and liveice... currently i use a liveice.cfg as follows without coming close to overloading the system. darkice on the other hand has no way of accomplishing this, nor does it's quality match liveices. this is what Akos is attempting to get into darkice. i personally am looking forward to it due to the frequent problems i have with icecast/liveice combo. Another 'feature' suggestion for darkice: allow darkice to be built *without* ogg/vorbis. ENCODER_STREAM_SET 1 SAMPLE_RATE 44100 BITRATE 128000 STEREO MOUNTPOINT hi ENCODER_STREAM_SET 0 SAMPLE_RATE 22050 BITRATE 16000 MONO MOUNTPOINT lo -- ------------------------------------ Robin P. Blanchard IT Program Specialist Georgia Center for Continuing Ed. fon: 706.542.2404 fax: 706.542.6546 email: Robin_Blanchard at gactr.uga.edu ------------------------------------ --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From oddsock at oddsock.org Thu Oct 18 13:57:39 2001 From: oddsock at oddsock.org (Oddsock) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 08:57:39 -0500 Subject: [icecast] a new directory service In-Reply-To: <20011017202559.P10106@i.cantcode.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20011018083255.02a10488@oddsock.org> At 09:25 PM 10/17/2001, you wrote: >I am not averse to making time-dependent information available. But it >does not fit in this model. > > >That being said, let's disucss the pros and cons. What is your >objection to making the server responsible for time-dependent data? ok, I'll bite... I interpret what you mean by "server responsible for time-dependent data" to mean, in order to find out what is currently playing on a particular streaming server listed on the YP (without actually listening to the stream) you will need to request this info from the streaming server itself. o, assuming that to be true, then consider the following scenario : 5 streams listed on the YP, 10 people browsing the YP. (another big assumption here : all people browsing the YP want to know what is playing on the 5 stations before choosing what to listen to and cannot determine from the station titles alone) if "server responsible for time-dependent data" is the method, then each stream will recieve 10 requests for "What's playing" (in addition to the 10 requests to the YP for the static station info) if "YP responsible for time-dependent data" is the method, then there is no requests sent to the actual streams, and you only incur the 10 requests to the YP. So, from a streamer's point of view, I now have to calculate bandwidth required for my stream + bandwidth required for a possibly indeterminate number of client requests. Also, I don't see this scaling very well from a streamer's point of view...if I am running on a modem connection then how many YP browsers will it take to occupy all the available bandwidth answering the "What's Playing" request ? ok, so a logical counter-points would be : ***make the model such that YP browsers only request this info for streams that they are interested in. That would reduce the amount of "What's Playing" information that is redundant and not really used.*** I would consider this a very tough thing to do effectively. Obviously you can't just have a YP client that makes you click on a station and tell it to "refresh song titles"...That's just not the way people leaf through the YP info (my opinion). People want to search for "The Rolling Stones" and come up with a list of stations that are currently playing the Stones...This kind of request would be almost impossible in the "server responsible for time-dependent data" model. if you want to find out what browsing through a time-dependent-less directory is like, force yourself to use the Live365 directory (no song titles, no listener counts)...they have no time-dependent information, and if you want to know what's playing, you can find out (making a client request) by clicking on the stream....This is a wholly useless directory in my opinion... ok, enough for now.. oddsock >jack. > >--- >8 ---- >List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ >icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ >To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' >containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. >Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From bogus@does.not.exist.com Thu Oct 18 15:54:24 2001 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com (Contact @ musicmine.net) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 16:54:24 +0100 (BST) Subject: [icecast] Newbie question - on demand streaming? In-Reply-To: <20011017205440.S10106@i.cantcode.com> Message-ID: <61483.194.222.87.49.1003420464.squirrel@secure.musicmine.net> Hi Jack, Thnx for the feedback....a strong argument and I'll consider it. Somewhat puzzled you're making a case for using Apache for on-demand streaming though....since Icecast is your baby. Is Icecast so inferior here? And I agree that RTP will be a big leap forward. There IS a server on the way for this....check out http://www.danubio.org. Rgds, Steve Huckle >> Well, a number of reasons. Dedicated streamers are better at >> streaming audio/video than webservers, > > In theory. In practice this is not true. Apache is far more robust > than any streaming server I've seen yet, and far more stable. Many of > the scaling issues have been addressed, and the drawbacks are minimal. > > Streaming servers should be better for two reaosns. 1) they can be > more efficient. they are serving a very specific kind of data. 2) > they can use protocols like RTP to improve quality. > > Neither of these things is true of any server yet. Apache offers more > functionality and works better than the alternatives for on demand > streaming. > > Once more clients use RTP then there's a large case for using a > streaming media server for on-demand as opposed to using apache. As > right now they both use TCP and most HTTP too, it's better to use the > better tool. > >> al. .m3u files suck (which is how I presume you feel I should be >> streaming from my webserver).....I seem to remember you have to play >> around with mime types et al. > > Use a simple cgi script or some such to autogenerate m3u's and set > mimetypes correctly. This is trivial. > >> Dedicated streaming gives me the ability to do livek >> broadcasts and thus gives me greater flexability than just using my >> webserver. > > I wasn't talking about live streams or even simulated live streams. > I'm only proposing apache for on-demand streaming of static content. > Hell, it even supports seeking. > >> Webservers are intended for delivering markup language and are >> good at it. > > This was true years ago. Webservers are now built for serving general > data over the HTTP protocol. They commonly do serve large files, and > HTTP has replace FTP in most cases for file download. Web server > evolved to handle generic data more and more, and teh fact that they > have been around forever, have lots of tool support, and lots of > configurability makes them the right tool for the on-demand streaming > job on today's internet. > >> Seperating duties tends to give a nicely cohesive environment...i.e. >> My webserver dishes up web pages, my audio server dishes up audio. >> Nice design principles in there somewhere. etc etc.....I could go on. > > You can use the same argument a different way to argue for keeping them > together. They both travel over HTTP. Use a common server. When > audio data starts getting pumped over RTP or some other non-HTTP > protocol, then there is a strong case for not using a web server. > >> The reason I wanna go Icecast is that I'd like a truly GPL'd >> environment, not some pseudo one like Shoutcast. > > Apache is also Free Software. > >> So lets just take it for given that I'm mad and that I'm gonna use a >> dedicated streamer such as Icecast. Can I make it behave like >> Shoutcast's on demand feature detailed in my original mail? > > Yes. The support is there, but it's not great. The staticdir config > option points to a dir of files. And then you can access these at > http://url:port/files/blah.mp3. Note that it probably won't generate > m3u's for you. I have forgotten if it does that or not. > > jack. > > --- >8 ---- > List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ > icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ > To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to > 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in > the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list > will be ignored/filtered. -- Imagine a world with no hypothetical situations.... ----------------------------------------- This email was sent using SquirrelMail. "Webmail for nuts!" http://squirrelmail.org/ --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From jack at xiph.org Thu Oct 18 16:37:56 2001 From: jack at xiph.org (Jack Moffitt) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 10:37:56 -0600 Subject: [icecast] question on downsampling In-Reply-To: <3BCE8ACF.80801@tyrell.hu> Message-ID: <20011018103756.G10106@i.cantcode.com> > But I wouldn't need to rip out the code, if vorbis supported > downsampling as well. It will eventually. Michael Smith is the maintainer of oggenc and will probably be the one doing it. I would still suggest that he take code from sox/lame since that code is good and it's not really in a spot to be factored out. Maybe we can make it reusable for others at the same time :) jack. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From adam at baz.org Thu Oct 18 16:40:18 2001 From: adam at baz.org (Adam Hirsch) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 12:40:18 -0400 Subject: [icecast] web-based playlist manager Message-ID: <20011018124018.C8284@baz.org> Before I went out to potentialy reinvent this particular wheel, I figured I'd check to see whether anyone had or could recommend a web-based playlist manager for ices/icecast. The one I've got in mind would take requests, play random tracks in the absence of requests, keep a very limited history and look-ahead... This must have been done before, right? If not, I'll take a stab at writing one. Adam -- Ideology, politics, and journalism, which luxuriate in failure, are impotent in the face of hope and joy. - P.J. O'Rourke Adam Hirsch --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From jack at xiph.org Thu Oct 18 16:47:13 2001 From: jack at xiph.org (Jack Moffitt) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 10:47:13 -0600 Subject: [icecast] web-based playlist manager In-Reply-To: <20011018124018.C8284@baz.org> Message-ID: <20011018104713.J10106@i.cantcode.com> > This must have been done before, right? If not, I'll take a stab at > writing one. Many, many times. It's a complicated enough type of UI that few of them are very good, and none of them may be to your liking. Search on freshmeat :) And I'm sure respective authors who hang out here will push their wares as well. jack. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From pharkawik at hampshire.edu Thu Oct 18 16:51:27 2001 From: pharkawik at hampshire.edu (pharkawik at hampshire.edu) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 12:51:27 -0400 Subject: [icecast] web-based playlist manager In-Reply-To: <20011018124018.C8284@baz.org> Message-ID: actually, there are quite a few programs out there that do this. i'm looking for something like this myself, but i don't know what works with icecast. go to freshmeat or sourceforge and do a search for mp3 or mp3 and php and you'll find a whole bunch. -peter > From: Adam Hirsch > Reply-To: icecast at xiph.org > Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 12:40:18 -0400 > To: icecast at xiph.org > Subject: [icecast] web-based playlist manager > > Before I went out to potentialy reinvent this particular wheel, I figured > I'd check to see whether anyone had or could recommend a web-based playlist > manager for ices/icecast. The one I've got in mind would take requests, > play random tracks in the absence of requests, keep a very limited history > and look-ahead... > > This must have been done before, right? If not, I'll take a stab at > writing one. > > Adam > > -- > Ideology, politics, and journalism, which luxuriate > in failure, are impotent in the face of hope and joy. - P.J. O'Rourke > Adam Hirsch > > --- >8 ---- > List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ > icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ > To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' > containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. > Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From alet at unice.fr Thu Oct 18 16:57:20 2001 From: alet at unice.fr (Jerome Alet) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 18:57:20 +0200 Subject: [icecast] web-based playlist manager In-Reply-To: <20011018124018.C8284@baz.org> Message-ID: <20011018185720.A1013@nordine.ateur> On Thu, Oct 18, 2001 at 12:40:18PM -0400, Adam Hirsch wrote: > Before I went out to potentialy reinvent this particular wheel, I figured > I'd check to see whether anyone had or could recommend a web-based playlist > manager for ices/icecast. The one I've got in mind would take requests, > play random tracks in the absence of requests, keep a very limited history > and look-ahead... > > This must have been done before, right? If not, I'll take a stab at > writing one. Not sure, but maybe you could try "Radio Free Pete" (or something like that) which is a Zope product which can even control the icecast server. earch for "icecast" on zope.org hth. Jerome Alet --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From didierp at drifter.sanity1971.com Thu Oct 18 17:58:28 2001 From: didierp at drifter.sanity1971.com (Didier) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 19:58:28 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [icecast] web-based playlist manager In-Reply-To: <20011018104713.J10106@i.cantcode.com> Message-ID: <20011018175828.7C3542EA70@drifter.sanity1971.com> > > > This must have been done before, right? If not, I'll take a stab at > > writing one. > > Many, many times. It's a complicated enough type of UI that few of them > are very good, and none of them may be to your liking. Search on > freshmeat :) And I'm sure respective authors who hang out here will > push their wares as well. > The real problem is that this type of ap is very personal, not just in interface terms but what for instance you consider random. Cause I have knowledge of PHP and mysql but ICES uses perl I ended up writing a simple scan tool in php that read my music dir. A php webpage for selecting the next song to be played, and a very short perl script to get either the first requested song or a random song from the database. Sadly as with many many versions I have found this lacks a lot but for me it does what I want, serve a reasonable random (pure random means that the same song can beplayed twice in a row) music stream for me to listen to while at work. Of course I want to add features, auto restart of ICES on crash, marking of corrupt mp3 files, mood selection, seeded random play and so on.... one day :) I am sure there are ppl out there who have better more worked out programs but the beauty of this little one is that it is all mine, and considering the huge personal requirements of such an application perhaps you're just best starting you're own project. Then again I enjoy this kinda stuff. Didier --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From tygris at cablespeed.com Thu Oct 18 17:17:05 2001 From: tygris at cablespeed.com (Kelly `STrRedWolf` Price) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 13:17:05 -0400 Subject: [icecast] question on downsampling In-Reply-To: <3BCE7B2B.6489C691@tyrell.hu> Message-ID: <3BCF0E91.B5819DD4@cablespeed.com> Akos Maroy wrote: > 1. For lame, one can specify the input and the desired mp3 sampling > rate, and lame will downsample the data as needed. I didn't find such > possibility for vorbis. For lame, this increases the processing need > quite a lot (almost double as I measure). > I use this technique for this: http://perlmonks.org/index.pl?node_id=55445 However, I found that Lame doesn't handle broadcasts to well for some MP3's. I have MPG123 pull and play them, and then have Lame reencode the piped sound data. -- eval join"",map{chomp;s/^.+>\s*//;$_}grep{/>/}; __DATA__ .' .' Kelly "STrRedWolf" Price -- WolfSkunk Designs xX xX .' http://stalag99.keenspace.com "X "X X .' tygris at cablespeed dot com _____. X" X NO UNSOLICITED COMMERCIAL E-MAIL ACCEPTED XXXXXXXx. X".' > 0; '"XXXXXX| X > 0; "XXX| X" > 0; 'XX' > 0; --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From pharkawik at hampshire.edu Thu Oct 18 17:18:06 2001 From: pharkawik at hampshire.edu (pharkawik at hampshire.edu) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 13:18:06 -0400 Subject: [icecast] web-based playlist manager In-Reply-To: <20011018175828.7C3542EA70@drifter.sanity1971.com> Message-ID: since we're on the subject, i'm working on a small web based radio station and media project in amherst, MA. during the day, we will be running liveice for djs, live stuff, and mp3s coming in as an analog source. during scheduled off-hours, we're going to kill liveice and run a streaming mp3 client on the server which will handle playlists in a much more sophisticated way than our imac and which will provide icecast with actual artist and track info for each song. the server is going to handle excessive requests with a 100mbit slave server, assuming that we can get that to work (am i correct in thinking that that what icecast's alias feature is for?) on our webpages, we want people to be able to browse the mp3 library and request songs, see what was just played, and have access to our scheduling database (which we also need software for) which will link to saved shows, tell what's currently on the air (either an entry in the db or what actual song is playing) and show what will be on the air in the future. we need this software to: have advanced playlist options, ie take tracks from different lists, with adjustable frequency have a web "admin" interface for controlling what's currently playing, edit playlists, configure options, etc with multiple users and options create its library of available songs dynamically from a folder on the server, taking artist and track information from the files' ID3 tags downsample mp3s from 160 to 128k with decent quality take requests and allow non-admin access to the library etc etc etc does anyone know of anything this fully-featured, or any system for scheduling as described above?? thanks, peter --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From nkohari at neo.rr.com Thu Oct 18 17:20:52 2001 From: nkohari at neo.rr.com (Nate Kohari) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 13:20:52 -0400 Subject: [icecast] RIAA's new take on MP3 Message-ID: <000701c157f9$3d653280$6401a8c0@highspire> Sorry, I know it's marginally unrelated to icecast, but it most certainly affects all American citizens interested in MP3/Ogg Vorbis: http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/zd/20011018/tc/why_the_riaa_owes_us_all_an_apology_1.html What the hell do they think they're doing? -- Nate "sublime" Kohari --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From DT at Z13.org Thu Oct 18 17:24:29 2001 From: DT at Z13.org (Darrell Turner) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 13:24:29 -0400 Subject: [icecast] web-based playlist manager In-Reply-To: <20011018124018.C8284@baz.org> Message-ID: If your interested in something Java/xml based, try out: http://www.xtcast.org, an actual running station is: http://www.xtcast.org:8080, i still need to get up the download section and such, but I plan on releasing as open source. Darrell > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-icecast at xiph.org [mailto:owner-icecast at xiph.org]On Behalf Of > Adam Hirsch > Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 12:40 PM > To: icecast at xiph.org > Subject: [icecast] web-based playlist manager > > > Before I went out to potentialy reinvent this particular wheel, I figured > I'd check to see whether anyone had or could recommend a > web-based playlist > manager for ices/icecast. The one I've got in mind would take requests, > play random tracks in the absence of requests, keep a very limited history > and look-ahead... > > This must have been done before, right? If not, I'll take a stab at > writing one. > > Adam > > -- > Ideology, politics, and journalism, which luxuriate > in failure, are impotent in the face of hope and joy. - P.J. O'Rourke > Adam Hirsch > > > --- >8 ---- > List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ > icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ > To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to > 'icecast-request at xiph.org' > containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. > Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. > --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From sublime at lagfactory.net Thu Oct 18 17:28:49 2001 From: sublime at lagfactory.net (Nate) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 13:28:49 -0400 Subject: [icecast] web-based playlist manager In-Reply-To: <20011018124018.C8284@baz.org> Message-ID: <001801c157fa$596de7a0$6401a8c0@highspire> Adam (and everyone else that is interested), I'm currently developing one called Livewire Radio. It's written in PHP4/MySQL, and currently supports a user-based system, plays random tracks when no requests are queued, and keeps solid statistics on what songs have been requested and played. It also has the beginnings of a credit system (which can be turned on or off) to keep the queue of songs to a managable size. As far as I know, it's the only full-featured listener radio station written that uses IceS as a streamer. (Please correct me if I'm wrong -- I'd be interested to see others' work!) If you're interested in an example, I have one set up on my development machine, but for my own sake, I think it's best not to post the URL to the mailing list. If you'd like to see the example that I have set up, please email me and I'll give you more information. I'd just rather not get sued for broadcasting without a license. I've been promising a beta for a long time now. I just need to finish what I'm working on now -- specifically, caching a user's last search request -- and then I'll release the beta. If you'd like more information, feel free to email me. The project will be completely open-source under the GNU GPL, and my development team and I plan to offer complete technical support. -- Nate "sublime" Kohari ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adam Hirsch" To: Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 12:40 PM Subject: [icecast] web-based playlist manager > Before I went out to potentialy reinvent this particular wheel, I figured > I'd check to see whether anyone had or could recommend a web-based playlist > manager for ices/icecast. The one I've got in mind would take requests, > play random tracks in the absence of requests, keep a very limited history > and look-ahead... > > This must have been done before, right? If not, I'll take a stab at > writing one. > > Adam > > -- > Ideology, politics, and journalism, which luxuriate > in failure, are impotent in the face of hope and joy. - P.J. O'Rourke > Adam Hirsch > > --- >8 ---- > List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ > icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ > To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' > containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. > Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. > > --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From Robin_Blanchard at gactr.uga.edu Thu Oct 18 18:00:10 2001 From: Robin_Blanchard at gactr.uga.edu (Robin P. Blanchard) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 14:00:10 -0400 Subject: [icecast] web-based playlist manager In-Reply-To: <001801c157fa$596de7a0$6401a8c0@highspire> Message-ID: <3BCF18AA.F2A8733B@gactr.uga.edu> I'd take a look at the following projects: 1) otto (http://www.cardhouse.com/otto/) -- uses ices as a streamer, albeit in a "hacky" fasion. 2) globecom juxebox (http://www.globecom.net/jukebox/) -- perhaps overkill feature set. personally, I use otto for home and work. it has its limitations (as do all of these types of progs). > I'm currently developing one called Livewire Radio. It's written in PHP4/MySQL, > and currently supports a user-based system, plays random tracks when no requests > are queued, and keeps solid statistics on what songs have been requested and played. > It also has the beginnings of a credit system (which can be turned on or off) to keep the queue of songs to a managable > size. As far as I know, it's the only full-featured listener radio station written that uses IceS as a streamer. (Please > correct me if I'm wrong -- I'd be interested to see others' work!) > > If you're interested in an example, I have one set up on my development machine, > but for my own sake, I think it's best not to post the URL to the mailing list. > If you'd like to see the example that I have set up, please email me and I'll give > you more information. I'd just rather not get sued for broadcasting without a license. > > I've been promising a beta for a long time now. I just need to finish what I'm > working on now -- specifically, caching a user's last search request -- and then > I'll release the beta. > > If you'd like more information, feel free to email me. The project will be > completely open-source under the GNU GPL, and my development team and I plan to > offer complete technical support. -- ------------------------------------ Robin P. Blanchard IT Program Specialist Georgia Center for Continuing Ed. fon: 706.542.2404 fax: 706.542.6546 email: Robin_Blanchard at gactr.uga.edu ------------------------------------ --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From adam at baz.org Thu Oct 18 19:53:11 2001 From: adam at baz.org (Adam Hirsch) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 15:53:11 -0400 Subject: [icecast] web-based playlist manager In-Reply-To: <20011018104713.J10106@i.cantcode.com> Message-ID: <20011018155311.G9894@baz.org> Jack Moffitt (jack at xiph.org) wrote: > Search on freshmeat :) And I'm sure respective authors who hang out here > will push their wares as well. Grabbed the first one I found on freshmeat, and after a small amount of struggle (and a fair amount more aesthetic tweaking -- why are geeks always picky about how things look? You'd think skins were going to save the world, the rate at which they're coming out) I've got one up and working. Now I'll spend twice as much time as I'd have spent writing one rewriting this one. Ah, well. Good advice, though. :) Adam -- Money means nothing and brings not happiness, but it can be translated so quickly into such interesting things. --Mark Helprin, "Memoir From Antproof Case" Adam Hirsch --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From alet at unice.fr Thu Oct 18 21:18:48 2001 From: alet at unice.fr (Jerome Alet) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 23:18:48 +0200 Subject: [icecast] feature wish for ices and a question Message-ID: <20011018231848.B1889@nordine.ateur> Hi, wouldn't it be nice for ices configuration file to be able to handle multiple playlists sections ? Is it limited on purpose ? this would allow the same ices instance to stream different things to different servers. Actually one has to create several configuration files, and launch several different ices process. any comment ? and now an important question: What is the best tool to stream live audio to an icecast server ? I know liveice (not used yet) and darkice, is there any other ? thanks in advance. Jerome Alet --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From fredy1 at kuenzler.ch Thu Oct 18 21:28:15 2001 From: fredy1 at kuenzler.ch (Fredy Kuenzler) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 23:28:15 +0200 ((MEZ) - Mitteleurop. Sommerzeit) Subject: [icecast] web-based playlist manager In-Reply-To: <20011018124018.C8284@baz.org> Message-ID: <3BCF496F.000001.84213@focus.kuenzler.ch> > Before I went out to potentialy reinvent this particular wheel, I figured > I'd check to see whether anyone had or could recommend a web-based playlist > manager for ices/icecast. The one I've got in mind would take requests, > play random tracks in the absence of requests, keep a very limited history > and look-ahead... What about obs? http://obs.freeamp.org/ works fine for me ... HTH Fredy --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From gtgbr at gmx.net Thu Oct 18 23:24:21 2001 From: gtgbr at gmx.net (Moritz Grimm) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 01:24:21 +0200 Subject: [icecast] OT?: RIAA's new take on MP3 In-Reply-To: <000701c157f9$3d653280$6401a8c0@highspire> Message-ID: <3BCF64A5.3AB1B474@gmx.net> here's a supplemental article: http://www.wired.com/news/conflict/0,2100,47552,00.html this is upsetting Nate Kohari wrote: > Sorry, I know it's marginally unrelated to icecast, but it most > certainly affects all American citizens interested in MP3/Ogg Vorbis: > > http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/zd/20011018/tc/why_the_riaa_owes_us_all_an_apology_1.html > > What the hell do they think they're doing? --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From jack at xiph.org Fri Oct 19 02:46:33 2001 From: jack at xiph.org (Jack Moffitt) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 20:46:33 -0600 Subject: [icecast] a new directory service In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20011018083255.02a10488@oddsock.org> Message-ID: <20011018204633.Z10106@i.cantcode.com> > if "YP responsible for time-dependent data" is the method, then there is no > requests sent to the actual streams, and you only incur the 10 requests to > the YP. But we're also managing time-dependent data. Which means _everyone_ will need to update constantly. So there's much more load from the streaming servers. Also, since the yp directory handles the time-dependent data, if you want to find out what's playing on your favorite stations, you incur load on the yp infrastructure as opposed to just asking those few servers. There is certainly traffic both ways. Sure it's nice to cache all that data for lots of clients, but it's also not as accurate, nor as flexible. > So, from a streamer's point of view, I now have to calculate bandwidth > required for my stream + bandwidth required for a possibly indeterminate > number of client requests. Bah. This has not been a problem in all the years that quake has worked this way. The amount of data in these requests vs. the actual stream data is negligible. It's doubtful you'll even notice. > Also, I don't see this scaling very well from a > streamer's point of view...if I am running on a modem connection then how > many YP browsers will it take to occupy all the available bandwidth > answering the "What's Playing" request ? Considering you could only have _one_ listener, this is a pointless example. No one is going to be streaming from a modem. And if they are, they aren't going to be advertising themselves on YP. > ok, so a logical counter-points would be : > ***make the model such that YP browsers only request this info for streams > that they are interested in. That would reduce the amount of "What's > Playing" information that is redundant and not really used.*** > I would consider this a very tough thing to do effectively. ... > Obviously you > can't just have a YP client that makes you click on a station and tell it > to "refresh song titles"...That's just not the way people leaf through the > YP info (my opinion). People want to search for "The Rolling Stones" and > come up with a list of stations that are currently playing the > Stones...This kind of request would be almost impossible in the "server > responsible for time-dependent data" model. There are a few ways to control this. Some are pretty easy. Your suggestion of only request info for a subset of streams is quite easy. You suggest for each stream to refresh, but that's isn't very nice. You could easy limit filter the streams and update only those. This is what Quake servers do. There's no point updating all of them everytime, when you're only going to be interested in a few of them. You assumption that people will want to search all streams for a keyword is also somewhat flawed. If the yp server is caching the data, this search is mostly pointless. If you found the stream that was playing the rolling stones, it's as likely to be at the end of the song or past the song than at the beginning :) However, this kind of search would be quite easy on a subset when the data was coming right from teh servers. So there are other ways too. One way is to limit the speed of the update on the client side. And also make it unordered (so that two clients will make requests in different orders). The other solution is to limit it on the server side. Certainly there should be an option that says "I do not answer requests" for those servers who don't have useful time-dependent data or dont' wish to share it. I think this is a quite effective solution, especially if the server admins can configure it. > if you want to find out what browsing through a time-dependent-less > directory is like, force yourself to use the Live365 directory (no song > titles, no listener counts)...they have no time-dependent information, and > if you want to know what's playing, you can find out (making a client > request) by clicking on the stream....This is a wholly useless directory in > my opinion... Their directory is bad for many reasons. Besides, nothing says that we can't also try and cache the time-dependent data somehow too. I just don't think it should be done in the same way. Also, I'm not trying to build the be all end all directory website here. I'm trying to build a generic infrastructure for this. I hope to facilitate _many_ interfaces, and _many_ separate directories (LDAP supports heirarchies). It's possible these issues wont' be big issues in that kind of structure. And if dir.oddsock.com caches the timedependent data and _looks_ like current directories, why does the users care what the architecture is like? jack. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From wolfgangebneter at os-net.de Fri Oct 19 13:49:25 2001 From: wolfgangebneter at os-net.de (Wolfgang Ebneter) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 15:49:25 +0200 Subject: [icecast] web-based playlist manager In-Reply-To: <001801c157fa$596de7a0$6401a8c0@highspire> Message-ID: <01101915492500.09082@pandora> Am Donnerstag 18 Oktober 2001 19:28 schrieb Nate: > Adam (and everyone else that is interested), > > I'm currently developing one called Livewire Radio. It's written in > PHP4/MySQL, and currently supports a user-based system, plays random tracks > when no requests are queued, and keeps solid statistics on what songs have > been requested and played. It also has the beginnings of a credit system > (which can be turned on or off) to keep the queue of songs to a managable > size. As far as I know, it's the only full-featured listener radio station > written that uses IceS as a streamer. (Please correct me if I'm wrong -- > I'd be interested to see others' work!) > > If you're interested in an example, I have one set up on my development > machine, but for my own sake, I think it's best not to post the URL to the > mailing list. If you'd like to see the example that I have set up, please > email me and I'll give you more information. I'd just rather not get sued > for broadcasting without a license. Hi Nate, as I'm using php and mysql on our server and ices to stream mp3's I'm very interested in your work. Could you please send it over to the address below. Cheers Wolfgang -- Wolfgang Ebneter M.Sc. Data Engineering Medienzentrum Osnabr?ck eb at medienzentrum-osnabrueck.de --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From darkeye at tyrell.hu Fri Oct 19 19:02:57 2001 From: darkeye at tyrell.hu (Akos Maroy) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 22:02:57 +0300 Subject: [icecast] icecast2 log - why lower case? Message-ID: <3BD078E1.8E141DFD@tyrell.hu> I have set up icecast2 with darkice 0.7 today (if anyone is interested, http://yp.tilos.hu:9000/tilos96.ogg). I found a funny thing when looking at the icecast2 log file. Entries look like: 195.228.229.118 - - [19/Oct/2001:20:49:28 +0200] "get /tilos96.ogg http/1.0" 200 1536633 "-" "WinampMPEG/2.7" 228 the strange thing is that get and http are lower case, whereas these keywords are upper case and case sensitive according to the HTTP spec. I had to modify the configuration of my log analyser (analog) to eat these files. What is the reason of deviating from the HTTP spec? Especially as there are no advantages... Akos --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From darkeye at tyrell.hu Sat Oct 20 11:01:24 2001 From: darkeye at tyrell.hu (Akos Maroy) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 14:01:24 +0300 Subject: [icecast] vorbis bitrates - offtopic Message-ID: <3BD15984.11C4B90E@tyrell.hu> Hi, I'm experimenting with IceCast2, using DarkIce to generate the stream. I have found some peculiarities with the vorbis bitrates. In DarkIce, I call vorbis_encode_init() with about the following values: vorbis_encode_init( &vorbisInfo, 2, 44100, 96, 96, 96); which by all reasons should generate a 96 kb/s stream, as all max_bitrate, nominal_bitrate and min_bitrate are set to 96. Strangely enough, the generated stream's bitrate (according to XMMS and WinAmp) varies between 49 and 59. If I try to set the same bitrate to a low 24, I never get a stream below about 44 kb/s. Could anyone enlighten me on these strange behaviours? It would be quite important to be able to produce a stream that still fits 33.6 kb/s modem users... Akos --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From buggz at america.net Sat Oct 20 14:35:51 2001 From: buggz at america.net (buggz) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 10:35:51 -0400 Subject: [icecast] livestreams, anyone have good success ? In-Reply-To: <3BD15984.11C4B90E@tyrell.hu> Message-ID: <3BD18BC6.F44F535B@america.net> Hi, Anyone get livestreaming to work w/ massive choppiness ? I've tried both livecast & darkice. xmms_livecast works, as do playlist. But when I do live soundcard streaming, I see this: Oct 20 10:30:43 buggz1 kernel: Sound: Recording overrun Oct 20 10:31:14 buggz1 last message repeated 345 times Oct 20 10:32:11 buggz1 last message repeated 601 times Anyway to correct this ? -- Ed June -o) /\ buggz at america dot net _\_v Linux: An open choice for free people worldwide. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From darkeye at tyrell.hu Sat Oct 20 14:59:18 2001 From: darkeye at tyrell.hu (Akos Maroy) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 17:59:18 +0300 Subject: [icecast] livestreams, anyone have good success ? In-Reply-To: <3BD18BC6.F44F535B@america.net> Message-ID: <3BD19146.B3665CA4@tyrell.hu> buggz wrote: > Oct 20 10:30:43 buggz1 kernel: Sound: Recording overrun > Oct 20 10:31:14 buggz1 last message repeated 345 times > Oct 20 10:32:11 buggz1 last message repeated 601 times > > Anyway to correct this ? yes, your system is too slow, and can not keep up with the sound card input. are you running darkice as root? what is the system load when you run darkice or liveice? --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From buggz at america.net Sat Oct 20 15:30:39 2001 From: buggz at america.net (buggz) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 11:30:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [icecast] livestreams, anyone have good success ? In-Reply-To: <3BD19146.B3665CA4@tyrell.hu> Message-ID: On Sat, 20 Oct 2001, Akos Maroy wrote: /me cries, bummer deal. Yes, running as root. The load was in the 'teens as I remember, I looked @ that too. One CPU was like 15% and the other 11%, something like that. 2.2.19ext3 #2 SMP, 200nhz ppros, 128mb ram. Yeah, I know it's an old boxen, but it has been very good to me so far. What system should I be looking at to get this to work ? > buggz wrote: > > Oct 20 10:30:43 buggz1 kernel: Sound: Recording overrun > > Oct 20 10:31:14 buggz1 last message repeated 345 times > > Oct 20 10:32:11 buggz1 last message repeated 601 times > > > > Anyway to correct this ? > > yes, your system is too slow, and can not keep up with the sound card > input. are you running darkice as root? what is the system load when you > run darkice or liveice? > -- Ed June -o) /\ buggz at america dot net _\_v Linux: An open choice for free people worldwide. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From jack at xiph.org Sat Oct 20 15:32:45 2001 From: jack at xiph.org (Jack Moffitt) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 09:32:45 -0600 Subject: [icecast] vorbis bitrates - offtopic In-Reply-To: <3BD15984.11C4B90E@tyrell.hu> Message-ID: <20011020093245.Q28755@i.cantcode.com> > vorbis_encode_init( &vorbisInfo, 2, 44100, 96, 96, 96); > > which by all reasons should generate a 96 kb/s stream, as all > max_bitrate, nominal_bitrate and min_bitrate are set to 96. Strangely > enough, the generated stream's bitrate (according to XMMS and WinAmp) > varies between 49 and 59. Currently min and max are ignored by the library, since bounded bitrates aren't going in until rc3. Also, if you pick 96kbps, that picks the 96kbps mode (if there is a 96kbps mode. It might be picking the 80kbps mode. You'll have to look at the vorbisml to figure out which mode that's actually using). In any case, unlike mp3, which must be at a fixed bitrate, Vorbis won't use more bits than it needs. So often you'll get streams that are less or more than what you picked. That's the nature of VBR. It tries to keep the average at 96. What was the average of the entire encoded piece? > If I try to set the same bitrate to a low 24, I never get a stream below > about 44 kb/s. In rc2 there are no modes below 64kbps. So this sounds correct. > Could anyone enlighten me on these strange behaviours? It would be quite > important to be able to produce a stream that still fits 33.6 kb/s modem > users... If you downsample to 22.05kHz, that mode will produce much smaller files. It will also get way smaller if you use mono input rather than stereo. Vorbis currently does not do this processing for you. I believe the lowest mode that 1.0 will support at 44.1kHz is 48kbps. In any case, you really should re-ask this question on the Vorbis list, where many more people can offer you input. Once more tunings are in, and the tools do things like downsampling and downmixing for you, you'll probably not notice a big difference from what you are used to, except now and then if a song is easy to encode, it'll use less bits than you asked. For streaming applications you'll also be able to specify how much the bitrate can vary, how low and high it can go, etc. That will be quite useful. And finally, you want VBR because it sounds better. People just aren't used to VBR yet. jack. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From wildbill at kpig.com Sat Oct 20 15:41:53 2001 From: wildbill at kpig.com (William Goldsmith) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 08:41:53 -0700 Subject: [icecast] livestreams, anyone have good success ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1c4b01c1597d$be5637b0$9865fea9@laptop> Sounds like a sound driver issue. Might want to try the SMP version of OSS (www.opensound.com). Do other sound apps work OK? -bg > On Sat, 20 Oct 2001, Akos Maroy wrote: > > /me cries, bummer deal. > Yes, running as root. > The load was in the 'teens as I remember, I looked @ that too. > One CPU was like 15% and the other 11%, something like that. > 2.2.19ext3 #2 SMP, 200nhz ppros, 128mb ram. > Yeah, I know it's an old boxen, but it has been very good to me so far. > What system should I be looking at to get this to work ? > > > buggz wrote: > > > Oct 20 10:30:43 buggz1 kernel: Sound: Recording overrun > > > Oct 20 10:31:14 buggz1 last message repeated 345 times > > > Oct 20 10:32:11 buggz1 last message repeated 601 times > > > > > > Anyway to correct this ? > > > > yes, your system is too slow, and can not keep up with the sound card > > input. are you running darkice as root? what is the system load when you > > run darkice or liveice? > > > -- > Ed June -o) > /\ > buggz at america dot net _\_v > Linux: An open choice for free people worldwide. > > > > --- >8 ---- > List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ > icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ > To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' > containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. > Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. > --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From buggz at america.net Sat Oct 20 15:41:48 2001 From: buggz at america.net (buggz) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 11:41:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [icecast] livestreams, anyone have good success ? In-Reply-To: <1c4b01c1597d$be5637b0$9865fea9@laptop> Message-ID: Yes, everything else has always worked great. I'm lisrening to EpiphanyRadio sream via xmms right now. *8^) I've tried the commercial OSS stuffs long ago, haven't had need of them. Oh, my soundcard is a SB AWE 64 Gold, maybe I should get a diff. card? But really, I think I'll build a new boxen next year... On Sat, 20 Oct 2001, William Goldsmith wrote: > Sounds like a sound driver issue. Might want to try the SMP version of OSS > (www.opensound.com). > > Do other sound apps work OK? > > > On Sat, 20 Oct 2001, Akos Maroy wrote: > > > > /me cries, bummer deal. > > Yes, running as root. > > The load was in the 'teens as I remember, I looked @ that too. > > One CPU was like 15% and the other 11%, something like that. > > 2.2.19ext3 #2 SMP, 200nhz ppros, 128mb ram. > > Yeah, I know it's an old boxen, but it has been very good to me so far. > > What system should I be looking at to get this to work ? > > > > > buggz wrote: > > > > Oct 20 10:30:43 buggz1 kernel: Sound: Recording overrun > > > > Oct 20 10:31:14 buggz1 last message repeated 345 times > > > > Oct 20 10:32:11 buggz1 last message repeated 601 times > > > > > > > > Anyway to correct this ? > > > > > > yes, your system is too slow, and can not keep up with the sound card > > > input. are you running darkice as root? what is the system load when you > > > run darkice or liveice? > > > -- Ed June -o) /\ buggz at america dot net _\_v Linux: An open choice for free people worldwide. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From 5551212 at email.com Sat Oct 20 15:56:23 2001 From: 5551212 at email.com (5551212 at email.com) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 08:56:23 -0700 Subject: [icecast] Advertisement Message-ID: <20011020155903.2DE4218D04A@motherfish.xiph.org> Dear Future Millionaire: I'll make you a promise. READ THIS E-MAIL TO THE END! - follow what it says to the letter - and you will not worry whether a RECESSION is coming or not, who is President, or whether you keep your current job or not. Yes, I know what you are thinking. I never responded to one of these before either. One day though, something just said "you throw away $25.00 going to a movie for 2 hours with your wife". "What the heck." Believe me, no matter where you believe "those feelings" come from, I thank goodness every day that I had that feeling. I cannot imagine where I would be or what I would be doing had I not. Read on. It's true. Every word of it. 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Fred Dellaca, Westport, New Zealand ================================================= ORDER YOUR REPORTS TODAY AND GET STARTED ON YOUR ROAD TO FINANCIAL FREEDOM ! ================================================= If you have any questions of the legality of this program, contact the Office of Associate Director for Marketing Practices, Federal Trade Commission, Bureau of Consumer Protection, Washington, D.C. ================================================= ONE TIME MAILING, NO NEED TO REMOVE ================================================= This message is sent in compliance of the proposed bill SECTION 301, paragraph (a)(2)(C) of S. 1618. Further transmission to you by the sender of this email may be stopped at no cost to you by sending a reply to: coho2 at ziplip.com with the word REMOVE in the subject line. This message is not intended for residents in the State of Washington, screening of addresses has been done to the best of our technical ability. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From alet at unice.fr Sat Oct 20 16:07:33 2001 From: alet at unice.fr (Jerome Alet) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 18:07:33 +0200 Subject: [icecast] bad quality, important buffering, etc... Message-ID: <20011020180733.A780@nordine.ateur> Hi, I'm trying to set up an icecast 1.3.11 server for our Medicine School. It's on a PIII 1Ghz, with 256 Mb RAM on a BiPro board (single proc yet), and a 3 COM 10/100 NIC. Unfortunately the NIC is plugged in a 10 Mbits/s hub for now. It's under GNU/Linux (Debian Woody) + a 2.4.10 kernel. The load of the server is very low, because there's almost only icecast running + ices which streams a playlist in 32 Kbps, 32 KHz mono, here's the output of free + uptime: total used free shared buffers cached Mem: 256360 252544 3816 0 5788 189748 -/+ buffers/cache: 57008 199352 Swap: 256968 0 256968 17:58:49 up 1 day, 2:32, 0 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 Our School is plugged to the Net with a 10 Mbits/s dedicated line, and the network load is low: on the LAN part it's around 400 Kbits/s. I encounter several buffering problems with several tools: realplayer, xmms, mpg123, WinAMP, reported by people outside our Network, but even seen by me from the LAN. Often these tools stop to play and fill their buffers, and this filling is very slow... On the same LAN I've got 2 web servers with several virtual hosts with no problem so far (I understand it's easier to encounter any problem when streaming) I'm sure it's not an icecast problem because I've set up my own icecast server (same version, same playlist) on an ISP's server and all is OK, nevertheless maybe some of you had encountered the same problems and could tell me where to look at. Could this be a faulty router somewhere or something else ? Thanks in advance. Jerome Alet - alet at unice.fr Medicine School of Nice, France --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From jack at xiph.org Sat Oct 20 16:11:09 2001 From: jack at xiph.org (Jack Moffitt) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 10:11:09 -0600 Subject: [icecast] bad quality, important buffering, etc... In-Reply-To: <20011020180733.A780@nordine.ateur> Message-ID: <20011020101109.T28755@i.cantcode.com> > I'm sure it's not an icecast problem because I've set up my > own icecast server (same version, same playlist) on an ISP's server > and all is OK, nevertheless maybe some of you had encountered the > same problems and could tell me where to look at. You didn't say what you were originating the stream with. What tool are you using for that (it might be the culprit)? > Could this be a faulty router somewhere or something else ? The first thing that came to mind was the 10/100 - 10 mix. Most of your switches and hubs will autodetect, but none of them (that i know of) do it well. Check the duplex. If the duplex is half on one side and full on the other, you will have major problems :) jack. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From alet at unice.fr Sat Oct 20 16:20:13 2001 From: alet at unice.fr (Jerome Alet) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 18:20:13 +0200 Subject: [icecast] bad quality, important buffering, etc... In-Reply-To: <20011020101109.T28755@i.cantcode.com> Message-ID: <20011020182013.B780@nordine.ateur> On Sat, Oct 20, 2001 at 10:11:09AM -0600, Jack Moffitt wrote: > > I'm sure it's not an icecast problem because I've set up my > > own icecast server (same version, same playlist) on an ISP's server > > and all is OK, nevertheless maybe some of you had encountered the > > same problems and could tell me where to look at. > > You didn't say what you were originating the stream with. What tool are > you using for that (it might be the culprit)? Sorry for that. the test streams are streamed to icecast 1.3.11 from ices-0.2.2. They were all made or downsampled (from 128 Kbps,44KHz stereo to 32kbs, 32khz, mono) with Lame 3.89beta1. > > Could this be a faulty router somewhere or something else ? > > The first thing that came to mind was the 10/100 - 10 mix. Most of your > switches and hubs will autodetect, but none of them (that i know of) do > it well. Check the duplex. If the duplex is half on one side and full > on the other, you will have major problems :) Thanks a lot. That's exactly the idea I missed ! I'll test again on Monday and let you know. bye, Jerome Alet --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From tre at shoko.calarts.edu Sat Oct 20 17:06:32 2001 From: tre at shoko.calarts.edu (tom erbe) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 10:06:32 -0700 Subject: [icecast] livestreams, anyone have good success ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: You might try mixice, it has been working for me on a 233MHz box. http://www.lns.com/papers/mixice/ The stream is at http://kcia.calarts.edu At 11:30 AM -0400 10/20/01, buggz wrote: >On Sat, 20 Oct 2001, Akos Maroy wrote: > >/me cries, bummer deal. >Yes, running as root. >The load was in the 'teens as I remember, I looked @ that too. >One CPU was like 15% and the other 11%, something like that. >2.2.19ext3 #2 SMP, 200nhz ppros, 128mb ram. >Yeah, I know it's an old boxen, but it has been very good to me so far. >What system should I be looking at to get this to work ? > >> buggz wrote: >> > Oct 20 10:30:43 buggz1 kernel: Sound: Recording overrun >> > Oct 20 10:31:14 buggz1 last message repeated 345 times >> > Oct 20 10:32:11 buggz1 last message repeated 601 times >> > >> > Anyway to correct this ? >> >> yes, your system is too slow, and can not keep up with the sound card >> input. are you running darkice as root? what is the system load when you >> run darkice or liveice? >> >-- > Ed June -o) > /\ > buggz at america dot net _\_v > Linux: An open choice for free people worldwide. > > > >--- >8 ---- >List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ >icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ >To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' >containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. >Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. -- ........................................................................ Tom Erbe . 608 Carla Way, La Jolla, CA, 92037 tre at shoko.calarts.edu . aim ThomasErbe http://shoko.calarts.edu/~tre ........................................................................ --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From jack at xiph.org Sat Oct 20 18:50:45 2001 From: jack at xiph.org (Jack Moffitt) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 12:50:45 -0600 Subject: [icecast] directory organization Message-ID: <20011020125045.Z28755@i.cantcode.com> Hello all, I've collected my thoughts on directory organization and am presenting them here for your comments. This does not address what kinds of data are stored in the directory (except for the obvious things needed to fulfill these requirements) nor does it really address how the directory is maintained, implemented or accessed. This is meant to be a general overview of what our how our new directory system will be organized, and there's a short blurb at the end that should give you some idea (based on the ideas presented) of why we need a new directory and why I am taking my time and much care to bring a new (and better!) one about. I will be writing up some other things similar to this. One on directory maintenance (which is of interest to broadcasters and of some interest to users) and probably something on how I am thinking to implement this system. Please read and comment. jack. ===================== How the directory is organized ------------------------------ going from simple to complex, here are several examples of how the directory should be organized. Type 1: one stream (simplest case) -------------------------- this is probably the simplest case. a person has one stream they are broadcasting and would like to list in the directory. there are no relationships to anything else in the directory at all. this is currently how the directory works. Type 2: one stream with organized relays -------------------------------- A person has one stream, which they have several relays (mirrors) of. All of these mirrors are grouped under this one stream, and should not appear as separate entities in their own right. This is somewhat similar to the Shoutcast directory's clustering. From ryan at celloboy.net Sat Oct 20 15:16:40 2001 From: ryan at celloboy.net (Ryan Child) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 15:16:40 +0000 Subject: [icecast] winamp shout Message-ID: <20011020151640.A22765@celloboy.net> i am using icecast v1.3.11 my friend streams music to my server with the shout plugin for winamp. there are a couple of problems. 1. icecast doesn't seem to recognize when a client disconnects. i enabled the shoutcast and icecast directory servers, and they were both saying that i had around 400 listeners last night, when in fact i only had 8. the only lines in the icecast configuration file that seem to have anything to do with managing client connections are set like this: ########################### Client Timeout #################################### # (How to deal with clients when no encoder is connected) # A negative value means keep them forever # 0 (zero) means kick them out instantly # X > 0 means keep them X seconds ########################### client_timeout 0 ######################### Kicking clients ##################################### # If set to 1, then clients whose source has disconnected will # be kicked. If set to 0, they will simply be moved to another # stream. This only has an effect if client_timeout is <= 0. ######################### kick_clients 1 has anybody else had this problem, or know how to fix it? 2. this shoutcast streamer seems to send the meta data and actual audio stream to random mountpoints. usually it's icy_0/icy_1, but sometimes icecast will refuse the encoder saying "invalid mountpoint". there don't seem to be any obvious configuration options on this streamer. my meta data options are set like this: ########################## Stream Meta Data ##################################### This is a experimental feature, at best. # When it does not work, it will put the whole stream out of synk on the client # side, and you will get a big mess. # use_meta_data controls whether this icecast server will use title streaming at# all. It's turned off by default, cause it creates chirps in the # stream if you're not careful. # streamtitletemplate is a the template for creating the title that gets sent to# the client and the directory server. %s will be # substituted for the actual filename. # streamurl is the default url for each stream. # nametemplate is a template for the name of each stream. # desctemplate is a template for the description of each stream. ########################## use_meta_data 1 streamurllock 0 streamtitletemplate %s streamurl http://radio.celloboy.net nametemplate %s desctemplate %s i used to have use_meta_data set to 0, but i set it to 1 hoping it would clean this up a bit. does anybody know what's going on? thanks for your help, ryan --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From jack at xiph.org Sat Oct 20 20:47:16 2001 From: jack at xiph.org (Jack Moffitt) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 14:47:16 -0600 Subject: [icecast] winamp shout In-Reply-To: <20011020151640.A22765@celloboy.net> Message-ID: <20011020144716.A28755@i.cantcode.com> > > 1. icecast doesn't seem to recognize when a client disconnects. i enabled the shoutcast and icecast directory servers, and they were both saying that i had around 400 listeners last night, when in fact i only had 8. the only lines in the icecast configuration file that seem to have anything to do with managing client connections are set like this: Could be a bug in icecast, though I wouldn't think so. I would keep kick_clients at it's default value, in case there is a bug with non-standard values. > 2. this shoutcast streamer seems to send the meta data and actual audio stream to random mountpoints. usually it's icy_0/icy_1, but sometimes icecast will refuse the encoder saying "invalid mountpoint". there don't seem to be any obvious configuration options on this streamer. my meta data options are set like this: Dont' use that lame dsp plugin :) Use oddsocks at www.oddsock.org. It supports mountpoints properly. > i used to have use_meta_data set to 0, but i set it to 1 hoping it would clean this up a bit. does anybody know what's going on? Not sure what you mean. jack. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From all at biosys.net Sat Oct 20 21:58:32 2001 From: all at biosys.net (Allen Landsidel) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 17:58:32 -0400 Subject: [icecast] directory servers? Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011020175717.00b2d398@rfnj.org> Any of y'all out there know of a place to get a directory server currently? I'm talking about running my own, not just one to connect to.. I want to use it to collect stats locally. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From wildbill at kpig.com Sun Oct 21 00:14:56 2001 From: wildbill at kpig.com (William Goldsmith) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 17:14:56 -0700 Subject: [icecast] livestreams, anyone have good success ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001301c159c5$6ac1f510$9865fea9@laptop> I've seen that before with the combo of AWE 64, liveice, & 2.4.x kernel. I've always just swapped in a PCI card & all is well. -bg > > Yes, everything else has always worked great. > I'm lisrening to EpiphanyRadio sream via xmms right now. *8^) > I've tried the commercial OSS stuffs long ago, haven't had need of them. > Oh, my soundcard is a SB AWE 64 Gold, maybe I should get a diff. card? > But really, I think I'll build a new boxen next year... > > On Sat, 20 Oct 2001, William Goldsmith wrote: > > > Sounds like a sound driver issue. Might want to try the SMP version of OSS > > (www.opensound.com). > > > > Do other sound apps work OK? > > > > > On Sat, 20 Oct 2001, Akos Maroy wrote: > > > > > > /me cries, bummer deal. > > > Yes, running as root. > > > The load was in the 'teens as I remember, I looked @ that too. > > > One CPU was like 15% and the other 11%, something like that. > > > 2.2.19ext3 #2 SMP, 200nhz ppros, 128mb ram. > > > Yeah, I know it's an old boxen, but it has been very good to me so far. > > > What system should I be looking at to get this to work ? > > > > > > > buggz wrote: > > > > > Oct 20 10:30:43 buggz1 kernel: Sound: Recording overrun > > > > > Oct 20 10:31:14 buggz1 last message repeated 345 times > > > > > Oct 20 10:32:11 buggz1 last message repeated 601 times > > > > > > > > > > Anyway to correct this ? > > > > > > > > yes, your system is too slow, and can not keep up with the sound card > > > > input. are you running darkice as root? what is the system load when you > > > > run darkice or liveice? > > > > > -- > Ed June -o) > /\ > buggz at america dot net _\_v > Linux: An open choice for free people worldwide. > > > > --- >8 ---- > List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ > icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ > To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' > containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. > Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. > --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From ryan at celloboy.net Sat Oct 20 19:25:02 2001 From: ryan at celloboy.net (Ryan Child) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 19:25:02 +0000 Subject: [icecast] winamp shout In-Reply-To: <20011020144716.A28755@i.cantcode.com> Message-ID: <20011020192502.A23248@celloboy.net> > > 1. icecast doesn't seem to recognize when a client disconnects. i enabled the shoutcast and icecast directory servers, and they were both saying that i had around 400 listeners last night, when in fact i only had 8. the only lines in the icecast configuration file that seem to have anything to do with managing client connections are set like this: > > Could be a bug in icecast, though I wouldn't think so. I would keep > kick_clients at it's default value, in case there is a bug with > non-standard values. > i restored the defaults so we'll see how that turns out. i read the BUGS file in the source package for 1.3.11, and it says something about a client count bug in 1.3.7.. "* Sometimes the client count is not correct." does this ring any bells for anybody? --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From jack at xiph.org Sun Oct 21 00:29:23 2001 From: jack at xiph.org (Jack Moffitt) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 18:29:23 -0600 Subject: [icecast] winamp shout In-Reply-To: <20011020192502.A23248@celloboy.net> Message-ID: <20011020182923.E28755@i.cantcode.com> > i restored the defaults so we'll see how that turns out. i read the BUGS file in the source package for 1.3.11, and it says something about a client count bug in 1.3.7.. "* Sometimes the client count is not correct." > does this ring any bells for anybody? Yes. Sometimes it will go to -1. It shouldn't ever be off by 400 :) jack. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From wildbill at kpig.com Sun Oct 21 03:03:46 2001 From: wildbill at kpig.com (William Goldsmith) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 20:03:46 -0700 Subject: [icecast] Liveice & RedHat 7.1 In-Reply-To: <3BCF64A5.3AB1B474@gmx.net> Message-ID: <009a01c159dd$0086e710$9865fea9@laptop> Help!! I compiled liveice on a more-or-less stock RH 7.1 (2.4.2-2) server install. It starts, appears to connect (to a Shoutcast server), lame runs using an appropriate CPU %, lists OK on yp.shoutcast.com - but clients can't connect properly (ICY 200 OK then stalls) - & the liveice console "vu display" is blank. With VERBOSE 10 I get: l3_side->main_data_begin: 1064 Resvoir size: 1176 resv drain (post) 7 resv drain (pre) 0 header and sideinfo: 104 data bits: 658 total bits: 769 (remainder: 1) bitsperframe: 832 Internal buffer inconsistency. flushbits <> ResvSizeInternal buffer inconsistency. flushbits <> ResvSizebit reservoir error : repeated a few zillion times. Any ideas? thanks -bg --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From ryan at celloboy.net Sat Oct 20 22:22:28 2001 From: ryan at celloboy.net (Ryan Child) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 22:22:28 +0000 Subject: [icecast] winamp shout In-Reply-To: <20011020182923.E28755@i.cantcode.com> Message-ID: <20011020222228.A23397@celloboy.net> hehe, ok. thanks for your help, i'll keep experimenting. ryan On Sat, Oct 20, 2001 at 06:29:23PM -0600, Jack Moffitt wrote: > > i restored the defaults so we'll see how that turns out. i read the BUGS file in the source package for 1.3.11, and it says something about a client count bug in 1.3.7.. "* Sometimes the client count is not correct." > > does this ring any bells for anybody? > > Yes. Sometimes it will go to -1. It shouldn't ever be off by 400 :) > > jack. > > --- >8 ---- > List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ > icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ > To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' > containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. > Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From darkeye at tyrell.hu Sun Oct 21 07:24:12 2001 From: darkeye at tyrell.hu (Akos Maroy) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 10:24:12 +0300 Subject: [icecast] Liveice & RedHat 7.1 In-Reply-To: <009a01c159dd$0086e710$9865fea9@laptop> Message-ID: <3BD2781C.D2E69DA@tyrell.hu> William Goldsmith wrote: > Internal buffer inconsistency. flushbits <> ResvSizeInternal buffer > inconsistency. flushbits <> ResvSizebit reservoir error > : > repeated a few zillion times. you have compiled lame with the stock RedHat 7.1 gcc compiler, which produces such broken code. Use the compatibility gcc (package kgcc) for RH 7.1, or gcc3. Akos --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From wildbill at kpig.com Sun Oct 21 07:54:28 2001 From: wildbill at kpig.com (William Goldsmith) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 00:54:28 -0700 Subject: [icecast] Liveice & RedHat 7.1 In-Reply-To: <3BD2781C.D2E69DA@tyrell.hu> Message-ID: <010f01c15a05$9d3d9680$9865fea9@laptop> Thanks! That's the culprit, all right. > you have compiled lame with the stock RedHat 7.1 gcc compiler, which > produces such broken code. Use the compatibility gcc (package kgcc) for > RH 7.1, or gcc3. > > > Akos --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From darkeye at tyrell.hu Sun Oct 21 13:28:20 2001 From: darkeye at tyrell.hu (Akos Maroy) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 16:28:20 +0300 Subject: [icecast] vorbis bitrates - offtopic In-Reply-To: <20011020093245.Q28755@i.cantcode.com> Message-ID: <3BD2CD74.C28F06FB@tyrell.hu> Jack Moffitt wrote: > > vorbis_encode_init( &vorbisInfo, 2, 44100, 96, 96, 96); > > Currently min and max are ignored by the library, since bounded bitrates > aren't going in until rc3. Also, aNa|0Gue pointed it out that the values need to be in b/s, so 96000 instead of 96. > In rc2 there are no modes below 64kbps. So this sounds correct. Actually I found that the minimum for 44.1kHz is 32 kb/s. Thanks for the help. I think I'm gonna put some downsampling code into DarkIce soon.. Akos --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From mystica at darktech.org Mon Oct 22 05:59:01 2001 From: mystica at darktech.org (Mike hodson) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 23:59:01 -0600 Subject: [icecast] libpthread and icecast2 Message-ID: <20011021235710.98B7.MYSTICA@darktech.org> Heres a question for anyone awake at this hour, does icecast2 require libpthread? I'm trying to build it on a freebsd 4.3 box, and it wants to link against libpthread. If this is not required on the freebsd platform, then is it safe to just take out of the makefile? Thanks Mike -- --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From jack at xiph.org Mon Oct 22 06:07:39 2001 From: jack at xiph.org (Jack Moffitt) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 00:07:39 -0600 Subject: [icecast] libpthread and icecast2 In-Reply-To: <20011021235710.98B7.MYSTICA@darktech.org> Message-ID: <20011022000739.B1312@i.cantcode.com> > Heres a question for anyone awake at this hour, does icecast2 require > libpthread? I'm trying to build it on a freebsd 4.3 box, and it wants to > link against libpthread. If this is not required on the freebsd > platform, then is it safe to just take out of the makefile? It needs pthreads. FreeBSD provides this in the reentrant c library. For FreeBSD, you should remove -lpthread from LIBS and add -pthread to CFLAGS. I believe this should be the only change required. I will fix FreeBSD building in the next few days (or at least this is my intention) as well as Win32 building. Once this is done, I'm planning an alpha1 release of icecast 2.0 to give people something to concretely test, etc. jack. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From mystica at darktech.org Mon Oct 22 06:19:52 2001 From: mystica at darktech.org (Mike hodson) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 00:19:52 -0600 Subject: [icecast] libpthread and icecast2 In-Reply-To: <20011022000739.B1312@i.cantcode.com> Message-ID: <20011022001928.98BD.MYSTICA@darktech.org> On Mon, 22 Oct 2001 00:07:39 -0600 Jack Moffitt wrote: > It needs pthreads. FreeBSD provides this in the reentrant c library. > > For FreeBSD, you should remove -lpthread from LIBS and add -pthread to > CFLAGS. I believe this should be the only change required. > > I will fix FreeBSD building in the next few days (or at least this is my > intention) as well as Win32 building. > > Once this is done, I'm planning an alpha1 release of icecast 2.0 to give > people something to concretely test, etc. > > jack. That worked, but I do get a few linking warnings. Are these serious? /usr/lib/libc.so.4: WARNING! setkey(3) not present in the system! /usr/lib/libc.so.4: warning: this program uses gets(), which is unsafe. /usr/lib/libc.so.4: warning: mktemp() possibly used unsafely; consider using mkstemp() /usr/lib/libc.so.4: WARNING! des_setkey(3) not present in the system! /usr/lib/libc.so.4: WARNING! encrypt(3) not present in the system! /usr/lib/libc.so.4: warning: tmpnam() possibly used unsafely; consider using mkstemp() /usr/lib/libc.so.4: warning: this program uses f_prealloc(), which is stupid. /usr/lib/libc.so.4: WARNING! des_cipher(3) not present in the system! /usr/lib/libc.so.4: warning: tempnam() possibly used unsafely; consider using mkstemp() Mike -- --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From jack at xiph.org Mon Oct 22 06:53:07 2001 From: jack at xiph.org (Jack Moffitt) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 00:53:07 -0600 Subject: [icecast] libpthread and icecast2 In-Reply-To: <20011022001928.98BD.MYSTICA@darktech.org> Message-ID: <20011022005307.D1312@i.cantcode.com> > That worked, but I do get a few linking warnings. Are these serious? > > /usr/lib/libc.so.4: WARNING! setkey(3) not present in the system! > /usr/lib/libc.so.4: warning: this program uses gets(), which is unsafe. > /usr/lib/libc.so.4: warning: mktemp() possibly used unsafely; consider using mkstemp() > /usr/lib/libc.so.4: WARNING! des_setkey(3) not present in the system! > /usr/lib/libc.so.4: WARNING! encrypt(3) not present in the system! > /usr/lib/libc.so.4: warning: tmpnam() possibly used unsafely; consider using mkstemp() > /usr/lib/libc.so.4: warning: this program uses f_prealloc(), which is stupid. > /usr/lib/libc.so.4: WARNING! des_cipher(3) not present in the system! > /usr/lib/libc.so.4: warning: tempnam() possibly used unsafely; consider using mkstemp() I considering this a bug in FreeBSD. To my knowledge icecast uses none of these functions directly. Nor really anything resembling them. I'm not sure how to get rid of them :) If you find a way, I will be intereted to know how, since these are annoying and succeed in nothing more than scaring everyone. I suppose that something I'm linking uses these, but that basically comes down to libxml or vorbis. Vorbis doesn't uses these functions, so I have no idea. I think that the reentrant c library or some other standard thing uses these, adn the linker just always outputs this message. Who knows. jack. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From mystica at darktech.org Mon Oct 22 07:10:41 2001 From: mystica at darktech.org (Mike hodson) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 01:10:41 -0600 Subject: [icecast] libpthread and icecast2 In-Reply-To: <20011022005307.D1312@i.cantcode.com> Message-ID: <20011022010039.98C3.MYSTICA@darktech.org> On Mon, 22 Oct 2001 00:53:07 -0600 Jack Moffitt wrote: > I considering this a bug in FreeBSD. To my knowledge icecast uses none > of these functions directly. Nor really anything resembling them. > > I'm not sure how to get rid of them :) If you find a way, I will be > intereted to know how, since these are annoying and succeed in nothing > more than scaring everyone. > > I suppose that something I'm linking uses these, but that basically > comes down to libxml or vorbis. Vorbis doesn't uses these functions, so > I have no idea. > > I think that the reentrant c library or some other standard thing uses > these, adn the linker just always outputs this message. Who knows. > > jack. Ok, sounds good BTW, I've got the stream up at http://media.mystica.cx:8000/crap.ogg It's on a decent connect, 64kbit (well, almost 64kbit, its hovering at 80 now..) ogg stream of just about anything you can think of. Im not kidding here :) Anyone with a fast enough connect, feel free to take a listen. Max clients at 10 right now. Provided my encoder box at home doesn't die it'll just sit and stream for the next day or 2. Mike -- --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From mystica at darktech.org Mon Oct 22 23:44:46 2001 From: mystica at darktech.org (Mike hodson) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 17:44:46 -0600 Subject: [icecast] Another icecast2 question Message-ID: <20011022174138.407F.MYSTICA@darktech.org> Well, I just keep coming back for more Here's one for ya: how much CPU should icecast2 consume? Its been sitting on the server for a while now, and its running full CPU. I recently restarted it, thinking it might have had a problem with me connecting/disconnecting the source a bit, and it shot right back uip once it was reloaded. here's what top currently shows it as. Also for reference, a process that I expect to take up the full cpu hasnt even been getting a chance (though it is niced to 20) PID USERNAME PRI NICE SIZE RES STATE TIME WCPU CPU COMMAND 7706 mike 64 0 3784K 1764K RUN 2:09 97.00% 96.88% icecast 184 root 68 20 912K 576K RUN 73.1H 0.00% 0.00% dnetc Let me know if I should be seeing different numbers than these Mike -- --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From msmith at labyrinth.net.au Tue Oct 23 00:39:01 2001 From: msmith at labyrinth.net.au (Michael Smith) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 10:39:01 +1000 Subject: [icecast] Another icecast2 question In-Reply-To: <20011022174138.407F.MYSTICA@darktech.org> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20011023103901.418a87c0@mail.labyrinth.net.au> At 05:44 PM 10/22/01 -0600, you wrote: >Well, I just keep coming back for more >Here's one for ya: how much CPU should icecast2 consume? Its been >sitting on the server for a while now, and its running full CPU. >I recently restarted it, thinking it might have had a problem with me >connecting/disconnecting the source a bit, and it shot right back uip >once it was reloaded. >here's what top currently shows it as. Also for reference, a process >that I expect to take up the full cpu hasnt even been getting a chance >(though it is niced to 20) > > PID USERNAME PRI NICE SIZE RES STATE TIME WCPU CPU COMMAND > 7706 mike 64 0 3784K 1764K RUN 2:09 97.00% 96.88% icecast > 184 root 68 20 912K 576K RUN 73.1H 0.00% 0.00% dnetc > >Let me know if I should be seeing different numbers than these > It should take little to no cpu (I haven't yet tested it with enough users to take it above... 0.1% cpu?), so there's a serious problem here. Michael --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From mystica at darktech.org Tue Oct 23 01:00:21 2001 From: mystica at darktech.org (Mike hodson) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 19:00:21 -0600 Subject: [icecast] Another icecast2 question In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20011023103901.418a87c0@mail.labyrinth.net.au> Message-ID: <20011022184954.4085.MYSTICA@darktech.org> On Tue, 23 Oct 2001 10:39:01 +1000 Michael Smith wrote: > It should take little to no cpu (I haven't yet tested it with enough users > to take it above... 0.1% cpu?), so there's a serious problem here. > > Michael Ok, That's not good then.. Hmm.. Here's my setup currently. libogg-1.0rc2, libvorbis-1.0rc2, (both from the vorbis.com unix download page) icecast2 cvs from last night, running on FreeBSD 4.3. It might not matter much, but I am also using libao-0.80 and vorbis-tools-1.0rc2 from vorbis.com as well. Hardware is a pentium-3/550mhz, 768 megs of ram, not doing much more than serving about 10 smaller websites. (between 10-20 megs a piece, minimal php/perl scripting). If anyone wants to know a bit more about the hardware its running on or the software it has, let me know. Also, as previously stated, the only change i've made so far with the Makefiles for icecast (to make it work) was removing -lpthread from LIBS, and adding -pthread to CFLAGS. Everything else was installed the 'normal' way: tar zxvf file.tar.gz ./configure --prefix=/usr (couldnt get the thing to pick up the libs in /usr/local) && make && make install Mike -- --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From mystica at darktech.org Tue Oct 23 01:04:12 2001 From: mystica at darktech.org (Mike hodson) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 19:04:12 -0600 Subject: [icecast] Another icecast2 question In-Reply-To: <20011022184954.4085.MYSTICA@darktech.org> Message-ID: <20011022190224.408B.MYSTICA@darktech.org> On Mon, 22 Oct 2001 19:00:21 -0600 Mike hodson wrote: > Hardware is a pentium-3/550mhz, 768 megs of ram, not doing much more > than serving about 10 smaller websites. I guess I should also mention that the server doesn't do any encoding. The encoder I'm using is at my house, using Oddsock's Oddcast DSP b27 for Winamp (which uses ~10% of cpu on my amd-duron 750 win2k box) Mike -- --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From jack at xiph.org Tue Oct 23 01:33:39 2001 From: jack at xiph.org (Jack Moffitt) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 19:33:39 -0600 Subject: [icecast] Another icecast2 question In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20011023103901.418a87c0@mail.labyrinth.net.au> Message-ID: <20011022193339.R1312@i.cantcode.com> > > PID USERNAME PRI NICE SIZE RES STATE TIME WCPU CPU COMMAND > > 7706 mike 64 0 3784K 1764K RUN 2:09 97.00% 96.88% icecast > > 184 root 68 20 912K 576K RUN 73.1H 0.00% 0.00% dnetc > > > >Let me know if I should be seeing different numbers than these > > > > It should take little to no cpu (I haven't yet tested it with enough users > to take it above... 0.1% cpu?), so there's a serious problem here. Do a fresh checkout. One of the bugs that Oddsock found was a sleep related one that would cause something like this possibly. What platform? FreeBSD? jack. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From leo.currie at strath.ac.uk Tue Oct 23 14:02:47 2001 From: leo.currie at strath.ac.uk (Leo Currie) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 15:02:47 +0100 Subject: [icecast] Win32 not relaying ogg Message-ID: <001401c15bcb$64e32120$0a629f82@fusion1> Hi - This is my first post, so please excuse me if I screw up in any way :) I have been trying to get icecast to relay an Ogg Vorbis stream. I have the 1.3.7 win32 version and in the icecast.conf file i have alias radiofg.ogg http://ra.voila.fr:8000/radiofg.ogg I think that this should allow me to point a client at http://fusion1.studio.strath.ac.uk:8000/radiofg and the server will connect to ra.voila.fr and then relay the stream. However it seems that icecast ren-names the resource, adding a .mp3 extension, and so my client (winamp) connects, but won't play it properly. Can anyone suggest a way of correcting this? --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From Robin_Blanchard at gactr.uga.edu Tue Oct 23 14:28:51 2001 From: Robin_Blanchard at gactr.uga.edu (Robin P. Blanchard) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 10:28:51 -0400 Subject: [icecast] Another icecast2 question In-Reply-To: <20011022184954.4085.MYSTICA@darktech.org> Message-ID: <3BD57EA3.5542DE5D@gactr.uga.edu> you may also need to add -D_REENTRANT -D_THREAD_SAFE to your CFLAGS. > Also, as previously stated, the only change i've made so far with the > Makefiles for icecast (to make it work) was removing -lpthread from LIBS, > and adding -pthread to CFLAGS. Everything else was installed the 'normal' > way: > tar zxvf file.tar.gz > ./configure --prefix=/usr (couldnt get the thing to pick up the libs in > /usr/local) && make && make install > > Mike -- ------------------------------------ Robin P. Blanchard IT Program Specialist Georgia Center for Continuing Ed. fon: 706.542.2404 fax: 706.542.6546 email: Robin_Blanchard at gactr.uga.edu ------------------------------------ --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From gtgbr at gmx.net Tue Oct 23 14:46:44 2001 From: gtgbr at gmx.net (Moritz Grimm) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 16:46:44 +0200 Subject: [icecast] Win32 not relaying ogg In-Reply-To: <001401c15bcb$64e32120$0a629f82@fusion1> Message-ID: <3BD582D4.FA675DB5@gmx.net> Leo Currie wrote: > Hi - This is my first post, so please excuse me if I screw up in any way :) > I have been trying to get icecast to relay an Ogg Vorbis stream. I have the > 1.3.7 win32 version and in the icecast.conf file i have 1st problem is that only Icecast 2.0 supports OGG streams, while older servers are restricted to MP3 streaming. I don't know of any Win32 binaries of Icecast 2.0 (which is still beta). Maybe someone else can help you out. > alias radiofg.ogg http://ra.voila.fr:8000/radiofg.ogg > > I think that this should allow me to point a client at > > http://fusion1.studio.strath.ac.uk:8000/radiofg On an Icecast 2.0 server, you'd have a relay URL "http://fusion1.studio.strath.ac.uk:8000/radiofg.ogg" . The extension ".ogg" is currently needed to let clients distinguish between MP3 and OGG streams. Moritz -- _______________________________________________________________________ "They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security" - Benjamin Franklin --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From reuben at fishB8.dns2go.com Tue Oct 23 15:03:27 2001 From: reuben at fishB8.dns2go.com (Reuben Martin) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 10:03:27 -0500 Subject: [icecast] Win32 not relaying ogg In-Reply-To: <[icecast] Win32 not relaying ogg> Message-ID: <000f01c15bd3$debbc800$b5ab9cd0@cua8001> >I don't know of any Win32 binaries of Icecast 2.0 (which is still beta). > Maybe someone else can help you out. There's a win32 beta maintained by oddsock. (It was just updated to beta2 yeasterday.) http://www.oddsock.org/icecast2/Icecast2_win32_beta2_setup.exe Oddsock also has a winamp plugin used to encode the stream, but if you plan on using something besides winamp, (like myself) then use this stream encoder http://141.54.172.28/ostream/ostream_0.7.1.zip -Reuben --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From bcm at maz.org Wed Oct 24 10:24:08 2001 From: bcm at maz.org (brian moseley) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 20:24:08 +1000 (EST) Subject: [icecast] a few ices/icecast questions Message-ID: hiya. i'm using ices 0.2.2 with icecast 1.3.10 and otto 1.0 (a web/db playlist mgmt tool). overall, i'm very pleased with the setup, but i'm having a few problems. 1) whenever otto plays a track (by exec'ing ices), that same track keeps playing over and over. i have to direct otto to kill the track (and the ices process) in order to get it to play the next track. i notice this comment in the source for ottojockeyd (the program that actually execs ices): # note: you may need to hack the ices source code so that it will # exit after playing one song (instead of looping forever) is there any real way to tell make ices play a single track from its playlist and then exit? or do i truly have to modify the source? if so, what's the right place to make the change? 2) at any given time, there are two identical ices processes: root 29336 0.0 1.6 3096 1012 pts/2 S< 20:11 0:00 /usr/bin/ices -s -S builtin -h localhost -p 8001 -P xxxxxx -n Nirvana Jukebox -u http://10.0.0.1/ -m / -F /tmp/playlist.1 root 29339 0.0 1.6 3096 1012 pts/2 S< 20:11 0:00 /usr/bin/ices -s -S builtin -h localhost -p 8001 -P xxxxxx -n Nirvana Jukebox -u http://10.0.0.1/ -m / -F /tmp/playlist.1 does ices fork or something? if not, maybe otto is keeping two alive for some reason. maybe if the ices processes were exiting after playing a single track re above, i wouldn't see this. 3) whenever i have the system play tracks encoded at 160, they sound great. but when one of my few 224 tracks is played, it's majorly skippy and crap. from my reading of the icecast and ices manuals, it seems that they will just stream at the file's bitrate if reencoding is not configured (i have not). so what could be wrong? 4) what clients support title streaming? thanks for your help! :) --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From Robin_Blanchard at gactr.uga.edu Wed Oct 24 12:12:48 2001 From: Robin_Blanchard at gactr.uga.edu (Robin P. Blanchard) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 08:12:48 -0400 Subject: [icecast] a few ices/icecast questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3BD6B040.28FA08D6@gactr.uga.edu> I've been through this on the list a while back. Unfortunately what you are asking is not possible, nor are the authors of ices interested in solving your problem :) I'd recommend ices-0.0.1.beta5.tar.gz (as recommended by otto's author) and seeing otto/misc/icecast/ices.readme. I use the recommended setup things run great. brian moseley wrote: > > hiya. i'm using ices 0.2.2 with icecast 1.3.10 and otto 1.0 > (a web/db playlist mgmt tool). overall, i'm very pleased > with the setup, but i'm having a few problems. > > 1) whenever otto plays a track (by exec'ing ices), that same > track keeps playing over and over. i have to direct otto to > kill the track (and the ices process) in order to get it to > play the next track. > > i notice this comment in the source for ottojockeyd (the > program that actually execs ices): > > # note: you may need to hack the ices source code so that it will > # exit after playing one song (instead of looping forever) > > is there any real way to tell make ices play a single track > from its playlist and then exit? or do i truly have to > modify the source? if so, what's the right place to make the > change? > -- ------------------------------------ Robin P. Blanchard IT Program Specialist Georgia Center for Continuing Ed. fon: 706.542.2404 fax: 706.542.6546 email: Robin_Blanchard at gactr.uga.edu ------------------------------------ --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From un at aporee.org Wed Oct 24 12:45:59 2001 From: un at aporee.org (udo noll) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 14:45:59 +0200 Subject: [icecast] launching icecast/ices from webinterface Message-ID: <20011024144559.A24992@aporee.org> hello, i'm starting/stopping icecast (1.3.11) & ices (0.2.2) from a web interface. fine so far, but now i see strange things: both ices & icecast, once started , (ices -B ... , icecast -b ...), both processes and their childs are listening also to port 80, besides their normal operation. i've found out because apache didn't restart (Address already in use: make_sock: could not bind to port 80). "fuser -n tcp 80" tells me the processes listening to that port. this only happens when starting ices/icecast from the webinterface (with php4 exec()) i'm not sure, but since i've restarted apache often before without problems, i assume that it has to do with my latest updates for redhat 7.1, system is a linux SMP, kernel 2.4.13, glibc-2.2.4-19. nothing special, it's only an up2date system. this problem didn't occure before. any idea?? thanks, udo --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From pharkawik at hampshire.edu Wed Oct 24 13:34:38 2001 From: pharkawik at hampshire.edu (pharkawik at hampshire.edu) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 09:34:38 -0400 Subject: [icecast] "switcher" Message-ID: does anyone know of a utility out there that will simply tell me what icecast is getting its input from and allow me to kill/start sources really fast?? i want to be able to switch from shout to liveice without resulting in too much dead air. -peter --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From brendan at icecast.org Wed Oct 24 14:04:40 2001 From: brendan at icecast.org (Brendan Cully) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 10:04:40 -0400 Subject: [icecast] launching icecast/ices from webinterface In-Reply-To: <20011024144559.A24992@aporee.org> Message-ID: <20011024100439.A428@xanadu.bpc.kublai.com> On Wednesday, 24 October 2001 at 14:45, udo noll wrote: > > hello, > > i'm starting/stopping icecast (1.3.11) & ices (0.2.2) from a > web interface. fine so far, but now i see strange things: > both ices & icecast, once started , (ices -B ... , icecast -b ...), > both processes and their childs are listening also > to port 80, besides their normal operation. > i've found out because apache didn't restart (Address already in use: > make_sock: could not bind to port 80). > "fuser -n tcp 80" tells me the processes listening to that port. > this only happens when starting ices/icecast from the webinterface > (with php4 exec()) Probably this is because exec() is keeping 80 open as stdin/stdout for the child processes. You could try adding > /dev/null &1 to the end of your exec argument and see if that helps... -b --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From brendan at icecast.org Wed Oct 24 14:13:58 2001 From: brendan at icecast.org (Brendan Cully) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 10:13:58 -0400 Subject: [icecast] a few ices/icecast questions In-Reply-To: <3BD6B040.28FA08D6@gactr.uga.edu> Message-ID: <20011024101357.B428@xanadu.bpc.kublai.com> On Wednesday, 24 October 2001 at 08:12, Robin P. Blanchard wrote: > I've been through this on the list a while back. Unfortunately what you > are asking is not possible, nor are the authors of ices interested in > solving your problem :) I'd recommend ices-0.0.1.beta5.tar.gz (as > recommended by otto's author) and seeing otto/misc/icecast/ices.readme. > I use the recommended setup things run great. I remember this discussion. I wasted a bunch of time proposing different simple ways to solve otto's problem (like having ices read from a fifo and having otto cat to the fifo) which were a lot nicer than connecting and disconnecting to the icecast server every track (which is bad). I also remember reading over a patch to have ices exit at the end. but between your hostile, demanding email and the demands of real life (like being evacuated from my downtown NYC apartment for a couple of weeks last month), I haven't had either the time or, honestly, the inclination to add this code. -b --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From brendan at icecast.org Wed Oct 24 14:17:51 2001 From: brendan at icecast.org (Brendan Cully) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 10:17:51 -0400 Subject: [icecast] a few ices/icecast questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20011024101749.C428@xanadu.bpc.kublai.com> On Wednesday, 24 October 2001 at 20:24, brian moseley wrote: > > hiya. i'm using ices 0.2.2 with icecast 1.3.10 and otto 1.0 > (a web/db playlist mgmt tool). overall, i'm very pleased > with the setup, but i'm having a few problems. > > 1) whenever otto plays a track (by exec'ing ices), that same > track keeps playing over and over. i have to direct otto to > kill the track (and the ices process) in order to get it to > play the next track. > > i notice this comment in the source for ottojockeyd (the > program that actually execs ices): > > # note: you may need to hack the ices source code so that it will > # exit after playing one song (instead of looping forever) > > is there any real way to tell make ices play a single track > from its playlist and then exit? or do i truly have to > modify the source? if so, what's the right place to make the > change? You should search the archives for 'otto' to see a good summary of your options here. Running ices to read from a FIFO and having ottojockeyd simply cat each song to that fifo should work fine. > 2) at any given time, there are two identical ices > processes: > > root 29336 0.0 1.6 3096 1012 pts/2 S< 20:11 > 0:00 /usr/bin/ices -s -S builtin -h localhost -p 8001 -P > xxxxxx -n Nirvana Jukebox -u http://10.0.0.1/ -m / -F > /tmp/playlist.1 > root 29339 0.0 1.6 3096 1012 pts/2 S< 20:11 > 0:00 /usr/bin/ices -s -S builtin -h localhost -p 8001 -P > xxxxxx -n Nirvana Jukebox -u http://10.0.0.1/ -m / -F > /tmp/playlist.1 > > does ices fork or something? if not, maybe otto is keeping > two alive for some reason. maybe if the ices processes were > exiting after playing a single track re above, i wouldn't > see this. ices is threaded. Presumably one of those processes is the metadata update thread. > 3) whenever i have the system play tracks encoded at 160, > they sound great. but when one of my few 224 tracks is > played, it's majorly skippy and crap. from my reading of the > icecast and ices manuals, it seems that they will just > stream at the file's bitrate if reencoding is not configured > (i have not). so what could be wrong? icecast 1.3.10 had some problems with bitrates higher than 160. You might want to try 1.3.11, which had a fix specifically for this. > 4) what clients support title streaming? on which platforms? I think just about everything but mpg123 does these days, but xmms does have some bugs in shoutcast-style streaming which may cause it to chew up the stream after a while. I sent in a bug-report and a half-assed patch to bugs.xmms.org about this... -b --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From un at aporee.org Wed Oct 24 15:05:47 2001 From: un at aporee.org (udo noll) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 17:05:47 +0200 Subject: [icecast] launching icecast/ices from webinterface In-Reply-To: <20011024100439.A428@xanadu.bpc.kublai.com> Message-ID: <20011024170547.A25674@aporee.org> Brendan Cully: > > both processes and their childs are listening also > > to port 80, besides their normal operation. > > i've found out because apache didn't restart (Address already in use: > > make_sock: could not bind to port 80). > > "fuser -n tcp 80" tells me the processes listening to that port. > > this only happens when starting ices/icecast from the webinterface > > (with php4 exec()) > > Probably this is because exec() is keeping 80 open as stdin/stdout for > the child processes. You could try adding > /dev/null &1 to > the end of your exec argument and see if that helps... no effect. i've tested this also with some other programs, e.g. i start esd with a script. same thing. this is weird, but obviously not related to ices or icecast... the only thing i've done is updating my redhat7.1, so i guess that this will happen for any daemon or prog which is started by a webscript. however, thanks, udo > -b that's cool, detaching from the console... ;) --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From bcm at maz.org Wed Oct 24 22:07:24 2001 From: bcm at maz.org (brian moseley) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 08:07:24 +1000 (EST) Subject: [icecast] a few ices/icecast questions In-Reply-To: <20011024101749.C428@xanadu.bpc.kublai.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Oct 2001, Brendan Cully wrote: > You should search the archives for 'otto' to see a good > summary of your options here. Running ices to read from > a FIFO and having ottojockeyd simply cat each song to > that fifo should work fine. whoops, sorry. i searched for a few other things, but should have thought of that. duh. i patched stream.c to exit instead of looping. it's an ok workaround. i like the fifo idea tho. i'd come up with a real patch for ices but i'm not a c coder. i can however write a patch for otto, if you make the change to ices :) > ices is threaded. Presumably one of those processes is > the metadata update thread. oh, duh. yesterday was a headhole day for me. > icecast 1.3.10 had some problems with bitrates higher > than 160. You might want to try 1.3.11, which had a fix > specifically for this. good to know. 1.3.10 is bundled with my distro (suse 7.2). i'll upgrade and see what happens. > on which platforms? I think just about everything but > mpg123 does these days, but xmms does have some bugs in > shoutcast-style streaming which may cause it to chew up > the stream after a while. I sent in a bug-report and a > half-assed patch to bugs.xmms.org about this... hmm, i'm using xmms (1.2.4) and xaudiocast streaming. xmms only seems to display the title of the first song in the stream; it never updates. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From lists at lastonepicked.com Wed Oct 24 23:59:12 2001 From: lists at lastonepicked.com (Hunter Hillegas) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 16:59:12 -0700 Subject: [icecast] Authenticated Icecast Message-ID: Is there any way to have clients authenticate before being able to listen to an Icecast stream? --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From leo.currie at strath.ac.uk Thu Oct 25 09:38:03 2001 From: leo.currie at strath.ac.uk (Leo Currie) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 10:38:03 +0100 Subject: [icecast] Win32 not relaying ogg In-Reply-To: <000f01c15bd3$debbc800$b5ab9cd0@cua8001> Message-ID: <001101c15d38$be722d30$0300a8c0@Jukebox> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Reuben Martin" Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 4:03 PM > There's a win32 beta maintained by oddsock. (It was just updated to beta2 > yesterday.) Cool... > Oddsock also has a winamp plugin used to encode the stream, Even cooler :) I was looking for a winamp streaming encoder, but none were to be found.. This is *exactly* what I wanted. Thank you very much =) Leo --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From jack at babyjesus.babyjesus Thu Oct 25 17:13:30 2001 From: jack at babyjesus.babyjesus (Jack Moffitt) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 11:13:30 -0600 Subject: [icecast] Authenticated Icecast In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20011025111330.C25075@babyjesus.cantcode.com> > Is there any way to have clients authenticate before being able to listen to > an Icecast stream? In icecast 1.x this is done with the .aut config files. Works roughly like the apache system.. jack. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From gshang at uq.net.au Fri Oct 26 15:55:04 2001 From: gshang at uq.net.au (Geoff Shang) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 01:55:04 +1000 Subject: [icecast] Vorbis streems, old and new Message-ID: Hi all: Well, after making the change to make use of the CVS trees and switching to ices2 (as opposed to the libshout example streamer), the icecast server at bumpy.braille.uwo.ca:9000 is back up. I've put my old 22khz mono files (encoded with beta4) back up on test.ogg. In addition, we've implemented a vorbis subset of Kirk Reiser's egoplay MP3 stream. You can now hear all the vorbis encoded songs in his collection at http://bumpy.braille.uwo.ca:9000/egoplay.ogg (these were encoded at 128kbps mode). There is also a re-encode at http://bumpy.braille.uwo.ca:9000/egoplay64.ogg (the usual re-encode quality issues apply here). The playlist is growing daily, so check it out. Of course, if you want to hear the entire collection using MP3 (icecast 1.x and ices 1.x CVS), you can connect to: 128kbps http://bumpy.braille.uwo.ca:8000/egoplay 56kbps http://bumpy.braille.uwo.ca:8000/egoplay56 24kbps http://bumpy.braille.uwo.ca:8000/egoplay24 We do have some bandwidth, so anyone wanting to do some vorbis streaming with icecast2, let me or Kirk know and we'll see what we can do. Geoff. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From un at aporee.org Fri Oct 26 19:15:35 2001 From: un at aporee.org (udo noll) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 21:15:35 +0200 Subject: [icecast] mixing streams? Message-ID: <20011026211535.B19656@aporee.org> hi all, short question: is there something out which makes it possible to mix two or more streams? like e.g. 'muse' perfectly does for playlists of files? thanks, udo --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From alet at unice.fr Mon Oct 29 08:13:41 2001 From: alet at unice.fr (Jerome Alet) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 09:13:41 +0100 (MET) Subject: [icecast] ices dies Message-ID: Hi, I'm using icecast 1.3.11 with ices-0.2.2 on the server I launch 2 ices process on two different mountpoints, at a five seconds interval: the first streams a stupid welcome message on /default which is the single entry in the playlist, and it lasts approximately 30 seconds. the second, which starts 5 seconds later, streams music and talks on another mountpoint (/linux), there's approximately 10 entries in the playlist, some of which last for one hour or more. from time to time I've got lots of errors in ices.log saying that one of the mountpoints is already taken or invalid: "Errors encountered while transfering xxx.mp3: Mount failed on http://127.0.0.1:8000/default, error: Could not login on server. Server message: ERROR - Mount Point Taken or Invalid" then after ten such errors ices dies. could this be related to the fact that all my mp3 are in /static and someone tries to listen to one of them from list.cgi ? or is it something else ? thanks in advance. Jerome Alet - alet at unice.fr - http://cortex.unice.fr/~jerome Fac de Medecine de Nice http://wwwmed.unice.fr Tel: (+33) 4 93 37 76 30 Fax: (+33) 4 93 53 15 15 28 Avenue de Valombrose - 06107 NICE Cedex 2 - FRANCE --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From thomas at arkena.com Tue Oct 30 10:18:00 2001 From: thomas at arkena.com (Thomas Kirk) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 11:18:00 +0100 Subject: [icecast] Authenticated Icecast In-Reply-To: <20011025111330.C25075@babyjesus.cantcode.com> Message-ID: <20011030111759.B19634@mmstreaming.dk> On Thu, Oct 25, 2001 at 11:13:30AM -0600, Jack Moffitt wrote: > In icecast 1.x this is done with the .aut config files. Works roughly > like the apache system.. Will this feature be available in icecast2? -- Venlig hilsen/Kind regards Thomas Kirk ARKENA thomas(at)arkena(dot)com http://www.arkena.com Dijkstra probably hates me (Linus Torvalds, in kernel/sched.c) --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. From reuben at fishB8.dns2go.com Tue Oct 30 23:14:11 2001 From: reuben at fishB8.dns2go.com (Reuben Martin) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 17:14:11 -0600 Subject: [icecast] Icecast Relay Message-ID: <000701c16198$955d5690$b5ab9cd0@cua8001> Is there a means to relay an incoming stream from an encoder to multiple icecast servers on a network so that you can set up a load balanced streaming network without requiring the encoder to send a copy of the stream to each server? -Reuben --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.