From orion at internexo.co.cr  Fri Jun  1 21:09:14 2001
From: orion at internexo.co.cr (Carlos Pravia)
Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 16:09:14 -0500
Subject: [icecast] A lot of live streams at the same time
Message-ID: <3B18047A.7ADD09A3@internexo.co.cr>



How can i have several live streams in the same machine ? Using icecast
under FreeBSD 4.3 ?

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From joly at dti.net  Fri Jun  1 03:01:55 2001
From: joly at dti.net (WWWhatsup)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 23:01:55 -0400
Subject: [icecast] Videolan.org
In-Reply-To: <20010531163830.B945@ebb.org>
Message-ID: <3B1705A3.C0F3E5BF@dti.net>



"Bradley M. Kuhn" wrote:
> 
> Here's some Free Software for video streaming software that might be of
> help to you.
> 
> http://www.videolan.com
> 
> 

I see it - http://www.videolan.org/doc.html - mainly used a DVD player

> The future
> 
>  Will VideoLAN support ogg/Vorbis ? Yes. 
> 
>   Will VideoLAN support VCDs? Yes. 

but there is a server, here's a search on it..
http://google.yahoo.com/bin/query?p=VideoLAN+Server&hc=0&hs=0
worth looking into, definately.


-- 
**************cut when replying*****************   
___________________________________________
  WWWhatsup  NYC  -  http://pinstand.com      
 http://punkcast.com - http://streamola.com
___________________________________________

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From kevin1a at socal.rr.com  Fri Jun  1 04:34:55 2001
From: kevin1a at socal.rr.com (Kevin Brouelette)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 21:34:55 -0700
Subject: [icecast] Admin question[s]
Message-ID: <3B171B6F.ACA39AF5@socal.rr.com>



Hello,

I'm brand new to this streaming stuff so please bear with me.
I have installed and am running icecast 1.3.10,  ices latest version:
0.0.1 beta5
and/or   shout  0.8.0.   No major problems with the exception of the
clients like to drop off
[and I see this problem posted before but didn't see any fix for it].
Btw... this is on Linux Slackware 7 operating system.

My question is regarding accessing the 'admin' console via telnet.
I can 'telnet localhost 8000' from the same terminal and type in my
admin
'password' and  I get this:

OK2
icy-caps:11

Then I hit <enter> 2 times and see:

OK

So I'm in but can't get any response to any command I give [not even
'help'].
Now what I do see when I browse http://localhost:8000/test.cgi
when I connect this way is a new mount called /icy_0

 /icy_0       localhost               8
seconds
0                                            - Brian Setzer Orchestra -
Bodhi

That's as far as I get with the admin stuff.  Can anyone give me some
guidance?
I did setup user.aut, group.aut, mounts.aut and the basic config files
per the doc'/README's/FAQ's/ and Manuals
to get this far.

Anyhelp is appreciated.

Thanks
Kevin

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From dennisd at best.com  Fri Jun  1 15:24:59 2001
From: dennisd at best.com (David Dennis)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 08:24:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [icecast] Admin question[s]
In-Reply-To: <3B171B6F.ACA39AF5@socal.rr.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0106010818200.10192-100000@shell5.ba.best.com>



welcome to the list.  

Check the archives.

There you will find about one newbie a month minimum discovering that the
widely distributed and still available shout package version 0.8.0
is actually deprecated and highly broken in exactly the manner you
describe.

                        

On Thu, 31 May 2001, Kevin Brouelette wrote:

> Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 21:34:55 -0700
> From: Kevin Brouelette <kevin1a at socal.rr.com>
> Reply-To: icecast at xiph.org
> To: icecast at xiph.org
> Subject: [icecast] Admin question[s]
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> 
> I'm brand new to this streaming stuff so please bear with me.
> I have installed and am running icecast 1.3.10,  ices latest version:
> 0.0.1 beta5
> and/or   shout  0.8.0.   No major problems with the exception of the
> clients like to drop off
> [and I see this problem posted before but didn't see any fix for it].
> Btw... this is on Linux Slackware 7 operating system.
> 
> 
> My question is regarding accessing the 'admin' console via telnet.
> I can 'telnet localhost 8000' from the same terminal and type in my
> admin
> 'password' and  I get this:
> 
> OK2
> icy-caps:11
> 
> Then I hit <enter> 2 times and see:
> 
> OK
> 
> So I'm in but can't get any response to any command I give [not even
> 'help'].
> Now what I do see when I browse http://localhost:8000/test.cgi
> when I connect this way is a new mount called /icy_0
> 
> 
>  /icy_0       localhost               8
> seconds
> 0                                            - Brian Setzer Orchestra -
> Bodhi
> 
> 
> That's as far as I get with the admin stuff.  Can anyone give me some
> guidance?
> I did setup user.aut, group.aut, mounts.aut and the basic config files
> per the doc'/README's/FAQ's/ and Manuals
> to get this far.
> 
> Anyhelp is appreciated.
> 
> Thanks
> Kevin
> 
> 
> 
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From arr at gweep.net  Fri Jun  1 16:06:45 2001
From: arr at gweep.net (arr at gweep.net)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 12:06:45 -0400
Subject: [icecast] different play lists on different ports?
In-Reply-To: <15126.32764.966964.337224@sekrit.office.oceanwave.com>
Message-ID: <15127.48533.732789.116617@sekrit.office.oceanwave.com>



> I'm running icecast 3.1.10 (from the ports collection) on a freebsd 4.3 

jack> First of all, I hope you meant 1.3.10. If there's an icecast 3.1.10
jack> floating around, there are bigger problems.

Yes, pardon, finger dyslexia.

jack> 1.3.10 definately works with multiple mounts (what you called instances)
jack> without problems. 

No, what I meant by instances was multiple non-forked instances of the
executable in the process table, ie icecast run multiple times with different
port options.  I see from your answer below that this is no longer possible.

jack> You likely are using the wrong option to iceplay (god knows why you are
jack> using that really outdated and inadequate tool).

Because the version I'm using is neither outdated nor inadequate.  It's been
improved by other people and it works great.  The version I'm using has mysql
as a back end for keeping album and playlist information (and everything is
handled via a web interface for creating, editing, and choosing playlists,
requesting songs, etc, but that's not part of iceplay, that's just the stuff
that wraps around it.  Very similar to dj lizard).

jack> We do everything on one port, but you can specify multiple ports. Each
jack> port is the saem as the others.  However, requestings different
jack> mountpoints on the any port should get you the different streams.

I'll see what I can do with that mount points instead of using different
ports.  Thanks for the info.

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From jack at icecast.org  Fri Jun  1 16:30:06 2001
From: jack at icecast.org (Jack Moffitt)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 10:30:06 -0600
Subject: [icecast] different play lists on different ports?
In-Reply-To: <15127.48533.732789.116617@sekrit.office.oceanwave.com>
Message-ID: <20010601103006.E12150@i.cantcode.com>



> No, what I meant by instances was multiple non-forked instances of the
> executable in the process table, ie icecast run multiple times with different
> port options.  I see from your answer below that this is no longer possible.

If you run multiple copies of icecast, they will be completely separate,
and work as two separate entities.  I have run many instances of icecast
on the same box all on different ports, with little problems.  For each
single instance, you can ask it to listen on multiple ports, which all
act the same.  But two instances ports are separate. And the icecast
instances won't even know about each other.

> jack> You likely are using the wrong option to iceplay (god knows why you are
> jack> using that really outdated and inadequate tool).
> 
> Because the version I'm using is neither outdated nor inadequate.  It's been
> improved by other people and it works great.  The version I'm using has mysql
> as a back end for keeping album and playlist information (and everything is
> handled via a web interface for creating, editing, and choosing playlists,
> requesting songs, etc, but that's not part of iceplay, that's just the stuff
> that wraps around it.  Very similar to dj lizard).

I would suggest replacing the send loop in iceplay with the Shout perl
module, which uses C code for timing. Perl is just not good enough to do
accurate timing, and you'll get artifacts and skips and disconnects more
often than with something that's using the reliable code.  In any case,
if it works for you great :)  At a certain point, I could no longer get
reliable streams out of it.  My testing showed perl to be just a bit to
course grained to do what it needed to do.

> I'll see what I can do with that mount points instead of using different
> ports.  Thanks for the info.

The different ports will work across multiple instances.  But they are
equivalent on a single instance.

For example:

icecast isntance one, running on ports 8000, 8001, 8002

icecast instance two, running on ports 9000, 9001, 9002

8000,8001,8002 will all act identically with no difference.

9000,9001,9002 will all act identically with no difference

8000,1,2 and 9000,1,2 will not be anything alike.  They will not share
sources or anything else, unless you've explicitly done this.  (eg,
sending the same stream to both servers).

Running two icecast's on one box is functionally the same as two
icecasts on two different boxes.

Hopefully this clears things up a bit.

jack.

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From lists at lastonepicked.com  Fri Jun  1 16:34:39 2001
From: lists at lastonepicked.com (Hunter Hillegas)
Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 09:34:39 -0700
Subject: [icecast] different play lists on different ports?
In-Reply-To: <20010601103006.E12150@i.cantcode.com>
Message-ID: <B73D122E.19724%lists@lastonepicked.com>



Is it better to run multiple icecasts on different ports or several mount
points under one icecast from a performance standpoint?

Hunter

> From: Jack Moffitt <jack at icecast.org>
> Reply-To: icecast at xiph.org
> Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 10:30:06 -0600
> To: icecast at xiph.org
> Subject: Re: [icecast] different play lists on different ports?
> 
> For example:
> 
> icecast isntance one, running on ports 8000, 8001, 8002
> 
> icecast instance two, running on ports 9000, 9001, 9002
> 
> 8000,8001,8002 will all act identically with no difference.
> 
> 9000,9001,9002 will all act identically with no difference
> 
> 8000,1,2 and 9000,1,2 will not be anything alike.  They will not share
> sources or anything else, unless you've explicitly done this.  (eg,
> sending the same stream to both servers).
> 
> Running two icecast's on one box is functionally the same as two
> icecasts on two different boxes.
> 
> Hopefully this clears things up a bit.

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From jack at icecast.org  Fri Jun  1 16:59:21 2001
From: jack at icecast.org (Jack Moffitt)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 10:59:21 -0600
Subject: [icecast] different play lists on different ports?
In-Reply-To: <B73D122E.19724%lists@lastonepicked.com>
Message-ID: <20010601105921.A13043@i.cantcode.com>



> Is it better to run multiple icecasts on different ports or several mount
> points under one icecast from a performance standpoint?

IMO (I haven't tested this theory) it is by far less resource intensive
to use mountpoints.

- mountpoints are a thread, not a whole process.  it shares memory and
other context with the others.

The real problem comes with scaling. Due to some architecture flaws
(these are addressed in 2.0) icecast can only reliable handle about
50-75 mountpoints on one server.  Most people won't even get near this,
but when we were broadcasting close to 500 stations, it was an issue.
Above about 50 mountpoints, I find it's best to break into multiple
servers, with 50 mountpoints on each.  With icecast 2.0, I'm hoping that
this problem goes away.

The _only_ reason to use multiple instances over multiple ports is
geenrally if you feel you must use multiple copies of teh winamp dsp
plugin from the same machine.  Or, if you must list more than one
station in yp.shoutcast.com (since it only supports one per port, and
has no concept of mountpoints).

Personally, I find that limitation unbearable.  It's like having a web
server than can only serve one file.  Or a search engine that only lets
you list one file.

In any case, if you have a choice, go with mountpoints.

jack.

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From kirk at braille.uwo.ca  Fri Jun  1 17:46:10 2001
From: kirk at braille.uwo.ca (Kirk Reiser)
Date: 01 Jun 2001 13:46:10 -0400
Subject: [icecast] need help/ideas please, oh and answers
In-Reply-To: <B73D122E.19724%lists@lastonepicked.com>
Message-ID: <x7ae3s855p.fsf@speech.braille.uwo.ca>



Hi Folks:  I have had need to write a streamer and scripts to stream
audio content on demand.  Basically a person browses through a
directory tree and selects a file to listen to at which point a stream
is created and pushed to the listener through the icecast server.

My questions start with is there anyway in the server to set a
variable to kill/terminate a source when it has no listener anymore? I
have sifted through the manual.html fairly well and don't see anything
which exactly relates to my need.  I am aware of the feature to kill a
relayed source when there are no more listeners.

If this feature isn't available would it be worth me or someone else
modifying icecast to provide the setting.  Is there any other way
people can think to accomplish the same result?  I have been
considering a script to grep through netstat and then kill the
streamer if it's listening socket is no longer connected but this
seems like a bit of a kludge.

Secondly, I wish this to eventually work with vorbis and was wondering
what mime type I should return for a .ogg stream?

I have many other questions but I think I will start with these.  If
anyone else is interested in this suite when I am finished, I will
happily make it available.

  Kirk


-- 

Kirk Reiser				The Computer Braille Facility
e-mail: kirk at braille.uwo.ca		University of Western Ontario
phone: (519) 661-3061

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From jack at icecast.org  Fri Jun  1 20:29:57 2001
From: jack at icecast.org (Jack Moffitt)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 14:29:57 -0600
Subject: [icecast] need help/ideas please, oh and answers
In-Reply-To: <x7ae3s855p.fsf@speech.braille.uwo.ca>
Message-ID: <20010601142957.A13060@i.cantcode.com>



Um, why wouldn't you just use apache for this?

jack.

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From miah at miah.org  Fri Jun  1 21:11:21 2001
From: miah at miah.org (Jeremiah Stanley)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 15:11:21 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [icecast] need help/ideas please, oh and answers
In-Reply-To: <20010601142957.A13060@i.cantcode.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0106011509090.23066-100000@dhcp239.area31.viawest.net>



> Um, why wouldn't you just use apache for this?

Exactaly, I would recommend the mod_mp3 project for something like that.

http://media.tangent.org/

They are doing almost exactaly what sound like you are looking for. There
is also the project 'ampache' that takes this one step further and adds a
MySQL database backend to a PHP front.

JStanley

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From jack at icecast.org  Fri Jun  1 21:34:53 2001
From: jack at icecast.org (Jack Moffitt)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 15:34:53 -0600
Subject: [icecast] need help/ideas please, oh and answers
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0106011509090.23066-100000@dhcp239.area31.viawest.net>
Message-ID: <20010601153453.B13060@i.cantcode.com>



> Exactaly, I would recommend the mod_mp3 project for something like that.

mod_mp3 is even a bit overkill.  Just dump your mp3s under docroot, put
some m3u files pointing to them, and you're done.  On demand mp3 is the
same as on demand html.

mod_mp3 and icecast are built for live and simulated-live streaming.

jack.

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From kirk at braille.uwo.ca  Fri Jun  1 21:46:51 2001
From: kirk at braille.uwo.ca (Kirk Reiser)
Date: 01 Jun 2001 17:46:51 -0400
Subject: [icecast] need help/ideas please, oh and answers
In-Reply-To: <20010601153453.B13060@i.cantcode.com>
Message-ID: <x7elt350vo.fsf@speech.braille.uwo.ca>



Um, I need to recode to different bitrates depending on the listeners
network connection speed.  I can check out the mod_mp3 stuff but I
didn't realize it existed.  If I did, I'd of saved myself a fair chunk
of coding.  Why didn't you just tell me before I started? 'grin'

  Kirk


-- 

Kirk Reiser				The Computer Braille Facility
e-mail: kirk at braille.uwo.ca		University of Western Ontario
phone: (519) 661-3061

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From kirk at braille.uwo.ca  Fri Jun  1 22:17:47 2001
From: kirk at braille.uwo.ca (Kirk Reiser)
Date: 01 Jun 2001 18:17:47 -0400
Subject: [icecast] need help/ideas please, oh and answers
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0106011509090.23066-100000@dhcp239.area31.viawest.net>
Message-ID: <x7ae3r4zg4.fsf@speech.braille.uwo.ca>



Jeremiah Stanley <miah at miah.org> writes:

> Exactaly, I would recommend the mod_mp3 project for something like that.
> 
> http://media.tangent.org/
> 
> They are doing almost exactaly what sound like you are looking for. There
> is also the project 'ampache' that takes this one step further and adds a
> MySQL database backend to a PHP front.

Thank you for these links.  I have looked at them and neither of them
seem to provide re-encoding on the fly.  I suppose I should have been
more clear about what I was doing but I didn't expect the flack.  If
someone else has something which will do what I am wanting I will
greatefully use it.  Although I pretty much have it working currently
except for the questions in my first message.

My system works thusly:  Drop an index.html into a directory.  When
someone browses into the directory they receive a standard looking
index.  Any mp3 files have another link below them called listening
booth.  Selecting that link give the user a pulldown bit rate menu and
a start button.  When they select start my streamer re-encodes the
file to the chosen bit rate makes a connection to the icecast server
and starts their browser streaming.

The reason I did this is because a number of users have indicated that
they would appreciate having the ability to stream because either they
have slow modem connections or don't have the disk space to download
the file and listen to it.  Most of my content is over 20mb per file.
As I said earlier, if there is something else which does this I will
happily use it.  My system works pretty well except for a number of
small issues I am still working on.

Any ideas, help or suggestions are certainly appreciated.

  Kirk


-- 

Kirk Reiser				The Computer Braille Facility
e-mail: kirk at braille.uwo.ca		University of Western Ontario
phone: (519) 661-3061

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From rusty at hodge.com  Fri Jun  1 22:36:18 2001
From: rusty at hodge.com (Rusty H. Hodge)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 15:36:18 -0700
Subject: [icecast] problems with relay pull syntax (repeating shoutcast)
In-Reply-To: <20010601153453.B13060@i.cantcode.com>
Message-ID: <200106012236.f51MaHW22748@hip.soma.net>



I'm not able to get icecast to repeat a shoutcast stream. More 
specifically, I'm trying to repeat a specific shoutcsat stream to a 
unique mount point on the icecast server.  Any help would be 
appreciated.

I've tried:

-> relay pull -m /stream http://stream.somafm.com:8000
Relay added
>  relay list
Listing relays:
Remote: [:9000/] Local: [-m] Connected: [no] Type: [pull] Reconnects: [0]
End of relay listing

It doesn't seem that the -m is being respected, and I don't know why 
it shows the remote as being port 9000.

Tried reversing the syntax:

-> relay pull http://stream.somafm.com:8000 -m /stream
Relay added
>  relay list
Listing relays:
Remote: [:9000/] Local: [-m] Connected: [no] Type: [pull] Reconnects: [1]
Remote: [stream.somafm.com:8000/] Local: [stream.somafm.com:8000/] 
Connected: [no] Type: [pull] Reconnects: [0]
End of relay listing
-> [01/Jun/2001:15:31:25] Accepted encoder on mountpoint 
stream.somafm.com:8000/ from 67.mubd.snfc.snfccafj.dsl.att.net. 1 
sources connected
-> relay list
Listing relays:
Remote: [:9000/] Local: [-m] Connected: [no] Type: [pull] Reconnects: [1]
Remote: [stream.somafm.com:8000/] Local: [stream.somafm.com:8000/] 
Connected: [yes] Type: [pull] Reconnects: [0]
End of relay listing
>  [01/Jun/2001:15:32:10] ERROR: sock_connect() called with NULL or 
>empty hostname

Here's my conf file in case that helps...

#icecast.conf

location San Francisco
rp_email rusty at hodge.com
server_url http://www.soma.net/
max_clients 9
max_clients_per_source 9
max_sources 10
max_admins 5
throttle 10.0
use_meta_data 0
streamurllock 0
streamtitletemplate %s
streamurl http://yp.icecast.org
nametemplate %s
desctemplate %s
mount_fallback 0
encoder_password xxx
admin_password xxx
oper_password xxx
touch_freq 5
port 9000
port 9001
server_name hip.soma.net
force_servername 0
logfile icecast.log
accessfile access.log
usagefile usage.log
logfiledebuglevel 0
consoledebuglevel 0
reverse_lookups 1
console_mode 0
client_timeout 30
kick_clients 0
staticdir /usr/local/icecast/static
templatedir /usr/local/icecast/templates
logdir /usr/local/icecast/logs
stats_log stats.log
statshtml_log stats.html
stats_time 60
kick_relays 10
transparent_proxy 0
acl_policy 1

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From miah at miah.org  Fri Jun  1 22:43:33 2001
From: miah at miah.org (Jeremiah Stanley)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 16:43:33 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [icecast] need help/ideas please, oh and answers
In-Reply-To: <x7ae3r4zg4.fsf@speech.braille.uwo.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0106011633010.23521-100000@dhcp239.area31.viawest.net>



> happily use it.  My system works pretty well except for a number of
> small issues I am still working on.

It is my understanding that you have the highest bitrate stored and you
just want to re-encode the files on the fly over a stream. You do this
rather than just store all the different enc rates.

Correct my assumption, but can't ices create playlists from perl scripts?
Couldn't you just set the playlist/connections to icecast up by using
custom mountpoints that are dynamically assigned to the user. I would do
this by having them login to the website and then 'their' stream is just a
md5 hash of their username. When the pick a file to stream their bitrate
is then sent to ices to stream to their 'mountpoint'. Looking similar to
this:

http://mp3.yourdomain.com:8000/aWNlY2FzdHJvY2tz

I guess this is just a question of what limits what you can do with the
ices perl playlist generation. Is there any documentation on the subject?

JStanley

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From kirk at braille.uwo.ca  Fri Jun  1 23:50:28 2001
From: kirk at braille.uwo.ca (Kirk Reiser)
Date: 01 Jun 2001 19:50:28 -0400
Subject: [icecast] need help/ideas please, oh and answers
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0106011633010.23521-100000@dhcp239.area31.viawest.net>
Message-ID: <x766ef4v5n.fsf@speech.braille.uwo.ca>



Jeremiah Stanley <miah at miah.org> writes:

> It is my understanding that you have the highest bitrate stored and you
> just want to re-encode the files on the fly over a stream. You do this
> rather than just store all the different enc rates.

Basically yes.  The material I have available is currently over 30gb
and growing.  If I stored all the various combinations of bit rates
the storage needed would go up significantly.

> Correct my assumption, but can't ices create playlists from perl scripts?

I'm not exactly sure what ices can and cannot do.  I compiled it once
and have updated cvs a couple of times and have not managed to compile it
since.  Now, I haven't spent a lot of time on it exactly either.

> Couldn't you just set the playlist/connections to icecast up by using
> custom mountpoints that are dynamically assigned to the user. I would do
> this by having them login to the website and then 'their' stream is just a
> md5 hash of their username. When the pick a file to stream their bitrate
> is then sent to ices to stream to their 'mountpoint'. Looking similar to
> this:

I do something similar although easier.  I use /mnt- and attach the
pid of the running script to create the mount
points. http://www.my.domain:8000/mnt-21453. I pass that into my
streamer from the script and then make the return url have it as well.

> I guess this is just a question of what limits what you can do with the
> ices perl playlist generation. Is there any documentation on the subject?

I will have to check.  Probably there is in ices/doc.  The icecast
group tend to be very good at documentation.

That raises another question though, what would ices do in the event
of a listener disconnecting before the source finished streaming,
Which is my main difficulty.

  Kirk


-- 

Kirk Reiser				The Computer Braille Facility
e-mail: kirk at braille.uwo.ca		University of Western Ontario
phone: (519) 661-3061

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From jack at icecast.org  Sat Jun  2 00:05:47 2001
From: jack at icecast.org (Jack Moffitt)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 18:05:47 -0600
Subject: [icecast] need help/ideas please, oh and answers
In-Reply-To: <x766ef4v5n.fsf@speech.braille.uwo.ca>
Message-ID: <20010601180547.C13060@i.cantcode.com>



> > It is my understanding that you have the highest bitrate stored and you
> > just want to re-encode the files on the fly over a stream. You do this
> > rather than just store all the different enc rates.
> 
> Basically yes.  The material I have available is currently over 30gb
> and growing.  If I stored all the various combinations of bit rates
> the storage needed would go up significantly.

Not really.  Maybe about 50% for all the extra bitrates.  Depends on
what your master bitrate is.

Icecast is still not the right tool for the job here.  You would just be
building a lot of glue to make it do something it was just not meant to
do.

What you want is a perl script.

http://www.server.com/music?file=blah.mp3&bitrate=24

which would set up a pipe with lame and send the reencoding file back to
the client.

You'll still need the m3u files, or at least an m3u generator:

http://www.server.com/music?file=blah.mp3&bitrate=24&mode=m3u

etc.

You could even use apache rewrite rules to turn those into:

http://www.server.com/music/24/blah.m3u

etc.

jack.

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From kevin1a at socal.rr.com  Sat Jun  2 00:55:34 2001
From: kevin1a at socal.rr.com (Kevin Brouelette)
Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 17:55:34 -0700
Subject: [icecast] Admin question[s]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0106010818200.10192-100000@shell5.ba.best.com>
Message-ID: <3B183986.928B668@socal.rr.com>



David Dennis wrote:

> welcome to the list.
>
> Check the archives.
>
> There you will find about one newbie a month minimum discovering that the
> widely distributed and still available shout package version 0.8.0
> is actually deprecated and highly broken in exactly the manner you
> describe.
>
>

Thanks but one point I can make is I get the same results when not using shout.
[using ices]
I did rtfm before posting and I will try to search the archives again.

Thanks
KEvin

>
> On Thu, 31 May 2001, Kevin Brouelette wrote:
>
> > Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 21:34:55 -0700
> > From: Kevin Brouelette <kevin1a at socal.rr.com>
> > Reply-To: icecast at xiph.org
> > To: icecast at xiph.org
> > Subject: [icecast] Admin question[s]
> >
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> >
> > I'm brand new to this streaming stuff so please bear with me.
> > I have installed and am running icecast 1.3.10,  ices latest version:
> > 0.0.1 beta5
> > and/or   shout  0.8.0.   No major problems with the exception of the
> > clients like to drop off
> > [and I see this problem posted before but didn't see any fix for it].
> > Btw... this is on Linux Slackware 7 operating system.
> >
> >
> > My question is regarding accessing the 'admin' console via telnet.
> > I can 'telnet localhost 8000' from the same terminal and type in my
> > admin
> > 'password' and  I get this:
> >
> > OK2
> > icy-caps:11
> >
> > Then I hit <enter> 2 times and see:
> >
> > OK
> >
> > So I'm in but can't get any response to any command I give [not even
> > 'help'].
> > Now what I do see when I browse http://localhost:8000/test.cgi
> > when I connect this way is a new mount called /icy_0
> >
> >
> >  /icy_0       localhost               8
> > seconds
> > 0                                            - Brian Setzer Orchestra -
> > Bodhi
> >
> >
> > That's as far as I get with the admin stuff.  Can anyone give me some
> > guidance?
> > I did setup user.aut, group.aut, mounts.aut and the basic config files
> > per the doc'/README's/FAQ's/ and Manuals
> > to get this far.
> >
> > Anyhelp is appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Kevin
> >
> >
> >
> > --- >8 ----
> > List archives:  http://www.xiph.org/archives/
> > icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/
> > To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org'
> > containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body.  No subject is needed.
> > Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
> >
>
> --- >8 ----
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From kirk at braille.uwo.ca  Sat Jun  2 01:02:58 2001
From: kirk at braille.uwo.ca (Kirk Reiser)
Date: 01 Jun 2001 21:02:58 -0400
Subject: [icecast] need help/ideas please, oh and answers
In-Reply-To: <20010601180547.C13060@i.cantcode.com>
Message-ID: <x7wv6v3d8d.fsf@speech.braille.uwo.ca>



Thanx Jack.  I'll look this over closer and see if I can devine
exactly what you're doing.  I'll let you know how it goes.

  Kirk


-- 

Kirk Reiser				The Computer Braille Facility
e-mail: kirk at braille.uwo.ca		University of Western Ontario
phone: (519) 661-3061

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From jack at icecast.org  Sat Jun  2 01:15:52 2001
From: jack at icecast.org (Jack Moffitt)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 19:15:52 -0600
Subject: [icecast] Admin question[s]
In-Reply-To: <3B183986.928B668@socal.rr.com>
Message-ID: <20010601191552.E13060@i.cantcode.com>



To answer your admin question, it's case sensitive.

ADMIN password
<enter>
<enter>

jack.

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From jer at sidehack.sat.gweep.net  Sat Jun  2 01:25:25 2001
From: jer at sidehack.sat.gweep.net (Jer Johnson)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 21:25:25 -0400
Subject: [icecast] different play lists on different ports?
In-Reply-To: <20010601103006.E12150@i.cantcode.com>
Message-ID: <20010601212525.A77229@sidehack.sat.gweep.net>



On Fri, Jun 01, 2001 at 10:30:06AM -0600, Jack Moffitt wrote:
> I would suggest replacing the send loop in iceplay with the Shout perl
> module, which uses C code for timing. Perl is just not good enough to do
> accurate timing, and you'll get artifacts and skips and disconnects more
> often than with something that's using the reliable code.  In any case,
> if it works for you great :)  At a certain point, I could no longer get
> reliable streams out of it.  My testing showed perl to be just a bit to
> course grained to do what it needed to do.

in adding VBR support, I must've fixed the timing issues that
send loop was having. instead of having a preset time-to-sleep based
on a preset bandwidth, I have iceplay calculating the time-to-sleep
based on the leftover time after building up a second's worth of
VBR MP3 packets.

arr is using my code, which I submitted a while ago, but after
iceplay had been tossed out in favor of Shout.

                        -jer


-- 
jer at sidehack.gweep.net         Programmer / Sysadmin / Gweep
mpython at gnu.org          -><-  Author of Xtacy, an X11 Graphics Hack
jer_johnson at real.life.edu      http://www.gweep.net/~jer/index.html
ICQ#: 19599864  AIM: DruelChaos  MSN: Nope

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From kevin1a at socal.rr.com  Sat Jun  2 01:36:51 2001
From: kevin1a at socal.rr.com (Kevin Brouelette)
Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 18:36:51 -0700
Subject: [icecast] Admin question[s]
In-Reply-To: <20010601191552.E13060@i.cantcode.com>
Message-ID: <3B184333.A781CD22@socal.rr.com>



Jack Moffitt wrote:

  I tried that and then it tells me 'bad password' but my password is set
properly in
icecast.conf.

If I leave 'ADMIN' out it let's me in with the password.  So maybe my
icecast.conf is wrong[?]
 [attached]  BTW, this is not on a public machine,  just my private "radio
station" run on my lan.

Thanks
Kevin

> To answer your admin question, it's case sensitive.
>
> ADMIN password
> <enter>
> <enter>
>
> jack.
>
> --- >8 ----
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# This be a comment, I like comments.
# To use this file, copy it to etc/icecast.conf in the icecast base directory

################################################################################
# I suggest you read this file carefully, and don't do anything silly
# cause the configuration file parser is pretty lame.
# If not stated otherwize, you can change these while the server is 
# running (through the admin console). Or by changing this file
# and using the rehash command (or (if supported) sending SIGHUP)
# Please use the admin console though, cause that's what its there for :)
################################################################################

#####Attempting to add WWW admin support  [Kevin]   #####
#http_admin 1

############### Server Location and Resposible Person ##########################
# Server meta info, please fill out these.  
# They get displayed when listing directories, streams, and 
# if the client supports it, among the other stream headers.
# You can put anything here, it's just for show.
###############

location Inside_lan 
rp_email kevin at simplycolor.com
server_url http://192.168.1.12

########################### Server Limits ######################################
# These describe the maximum number of simultaneous connections allowed.
# When reached, the server will refuse access.
# There is a builtin bandwidth measuring tool inside the icecast server,
# and when icecast thinks that it is using more than "throttle" MB/s, then
# no clients or sources will be allowed until the bandwidth usage goes back
# down below the limit. Use this with caution, since the bandwidth measurement
# is in no way an exact science.
###########################

max_clients 100
max_clients_per_source 100
max_sources 10
max_admins 5
throttle 10.0
sleep_ratio 0

########################## Stream Meta Data ####################################
# This is a experimental feature, at best. 
# When it does not work, it will put the whole stream out of synk on the client
# side, and you will get a big mess.
# use_meta_data controls whether this icecast server will use title streaming at
# 	        all. It's turned off by default, cause it creates chirps in the
#               stream if you're not careful.
# streamtitletemplate is a the template for creating the title that gets sent to
#                     the client and the directory server. %s will be
#		      substituted for the actual filename.
# streamurl is the default url for each stream.
# nametemplate is a template for the name of each stream.
# desctemplate is a template for the description of each stream.
##########################
use_meta_data 0
streamurllock 0
streamtitletemplate %s
streamurl http://yp.icecast.org
nametemplate %s
desctemplate %s

######################## Mountpoint fallback ###################################
# By default, if a user requests a stream that is not found, this user will be
# given the default stream instead. The default stream is per default the oldest
# stream on the server, but this can be changed with the priority value in the
# 'modify' command. 
# If you don't want the user to get the default mount, but instead a
# HTTP 404 Stream Not Found, then set this to 0
########################

mount_fallback 1

######################### Server passwords #####################################
# Unless you've compiled icecast with crypt support,
# i.e with --with-crypt as an argument to the configure script,
# then these are in cleartext. If you _do_ have crypt support, then
# you have to create a crypted version of the password. You can do this
# with the included mkpasswd.c program. Just compile it with
# "gcc -o mkpasswd mkpasswd.c", perhaps with the -lcrypt option.
#########################

encoder_password linuxcast
admin_password linuxcast
oper_password linuxcast

######################## Directory servers #####################################
# A directory server is a "meta-server" where you, for free, can list
# your own icecast server. This is a great way of getting more listeners.
# The touch_freq is how often to "update" the directory server with information
# from your server. (e.g number of listeners, stream info, etc..)
########################

#icydir yp.shoutcast.com
#icydir yp.breakfree.com
#icydir yp.musicseek.net
#icydir yp.van-pelt.com
#icydir yp.radiostation.de
#directory yp.icecast.org
#directory yp.mp3.de
touch_freq 5

############# Server IP/port configuration (IMPORTANT) #########################
# If no hostname is specified, icecast will listen on all available interfaces,
# i.e INADDR_ANY. This is probably what you want.
# If you want icecast to _only_ listen on a specified ip, then change the 
# "hostname" parameter. The "port" parameter is rather self-explanatory. 
# As of icecast 1.3, all connections use port 8000. Admins, encoders, clients, 
# the whole thing. So no more messing with 3 different ports in the firewall 
# rules.
# The server_name can currently ONLY be specified here, and ONLY when you start
# the server. Changing it later on will not have the desired effect.
# The server_name specifies the hostname of the server, don't set it to an ip, 
# and don't even THINK about setting it to a hostname not pointing to your ip.
# - WARNING - WARNING - WARNING - (important, get it?)
# It is VERY important that this server_name does actually resolv to the ip you
# are running your server at. If not, BAD THINGS<tm> will happen.
# E.g localhost is definately probably not what you want :)
# Using your ip will probably work.. but it will look nicer with your hostname.
# The problem is that if you specify something that doesn't resolve to yourself,
# then virtual host support will get fscked up, and default server action
# might not work either.
# Also, changing the port here will not affect the server when doing a 'rehash'
# since binding to a port is done only once, when the server is started.
# server is started.
# Users on dialup connections with dynamic ip:s are in trouble here, I know.
# You will just have to live without the virtual hosts support, cause there is
# no portable way of getting all the ip:s the process is binding to. Either
# edit this file before starting icecast and fill in the current ip, or just
# live with it. Setting the value to "dynamic", will tell the icecast server
# that there is no reliable hostname for this machine.
#
# you can now use multiple ports.  the default port is the first one defined.
# define PORT, and PORT+1 for shoutcast compatibility.
#############

#hostname 192.168.1.1

port 8000
port 8001

erver_name celeron

####################### Directory server options ##############################
# You can now force the directory server to use the server_name value instead
# of the originating ip. For most people this is unnecessary, since it is the
# same. But for people behind proxies, this should be very useful.
# Set it to 1 if you want to force use of the server_name variable.
#######################

force_servername 0

######################## Main Server Logfile ##################################
# This is the file where icecast prints all the information about
# connections, warnings, errors, etc...
# You cannot change this in the admin console, but changing it here
# and then rehashing the server will work.
# logfiledebuglevel is the debugging level for all output to the main logfile.
# consoledebuglevel is the debugging level to the icecast console.
# accessfile is the file where all connects/disconnects goes
# usagefile is a file for periodic bandwidth and usage information goes
########################

logfile icecast.log
accessfile access.log
usagefile usage.log
logfiledebuglevel 0
consoledebuglevel 0

########################## Reverse Lookups ####################################
# Set this to 1 if you want ip:s to be looked up (using reverse lookup)
# or 0 if you just want the ip:s (which is slightly faster)
##########################

reverse_lookups 0

############################ Console mode #####################################
# Use 0 if you want stdin to become a local admin console with log tailing
# Use 1 if you want stdin to become a local admin console
# Use 2 if you just want the console to become a log window
# Use 3 if you want the icecast server to be launched in the background (not available for Win32)
############################

console_mode 0

########################### Client Timeout ####################################
# (How to deal with clients when no encoder is connected)
# A negative value means keep them forever
# 0 (zero) means kick them out instantly
# X > 0 means keep them X seconds
###########################

client_timeout 30

######################### Kicking clients #####################################
# If set to 1, then clients whose source has disconnected will
# be kicked. If set to 0, they will simply be moved to another
# stream. This only has an effect if client_timeout is <= 0.
#########################

kick_clients 0

###################### Static file directory ##################################
# This enables the http-server file streaming support in icecast.
# If you don't want to go through the trouble of setting up apache
# or roxen or whatever, then you can just specify a directory here,
# and then http://your_server:port/file/file.mp3 will be equivalent
# to /staticdir/file.mp3
# The http server support is of course very limited, don't try to 
# do anything fancy. Also, only .mp3 files will be displayed.
######################

#staticdir c:\windows\desktop
#staticdir /usr/local/icecast/static
staticdir /storage/mp3

############################# Templates ######################################
# the icecast server uses templtes to format output for list.cgi and
# various errors.  you can specify the directory that these are read from
# please use absolute paths if possible
#############################

templatedir /usr/local/icecast/templates

############################# Statistics ######################################
# The icecast server dumps statistics to a file on a regular basis.
# You can specify how often (stats_time), and to what file (stats_log)
# StatsTime (how often to dump stats, in seconds)
# 0 (zero) means to not dump stats
# X > 0 means dump stats every X seconds to the file specified by stats_log
#############################

logdir /usr/local/icecast/logs
stats_log stats.log
statshtml_log stats.html
stats_time 60

############# Aliases (including virtual host support) ########################
# In icecast servers prior to the 1.3 release, you could run a icecast
# server as a relay for another icecast server, simply acting as a 
# client on the other server and serving the local clients. This was
# of course a neat way of increasing the number of possible listeners
# for your broadcast. You could build a tree-like structure of relays
# and broadcast to 1000 listeners without problem with the originating
# stream on a cable modem or whatever.
# In icecast 1.3.0 and above, we make this procedure much simpler.
# If you want to relay a stream from another server, simply add an 
# alias for that server. Say you want to relay the broadcast originating
# from my machine (laika.linux.tm:8000/laika), on your machine, do this:
# alias laika http://laika.linux.tm:8000/laika
# What happens is that when a listeners connects to your server and
# requests the /laika stream, then your icecast server will connect
# as a client to my machine, and then feed my stream to the listener.
# All subsequent requests for /laika will use the same feed (i.e only
# one connect will be made to my machine). Icecast will automagically
# shut the link from my machine down when no one is listening. I.e
# no bandwidth will be wasted.
# The old functionality (i.e adding a more or less static relay) is still
# there, but you have to do it from the admin console. Just do
# relay pull http://laika.linux.tm:8000, and that will be accessible as
# http://your_machine:port/laika.linux.tm:8000/ (you can change this with
# the -m option to relay pull.
# There is also a possibity to do it the other way around, starting at
# the originating server. Just do "relay push <source_id> host:port", and
# your stream will be relayed to the remote server.
# In theory, this should enable virtual host support, cause you can
# specify an alias like so:
# alias http://virtual.host.com:port/whatever /something
# This will make all requests to virtual.host.com:port/whatever use the
# stream /something. This is not really thorougly tested, but it should
# work if your server_name is correctly set, and the client is sending
# the valid Host: <host:port> http header.
#############

alias radiofri http://195.7.65.207:6903 

############################ Kick Relays ######################################
# How long to keep aliased sources when no clients are left listening to it.
############################
kick_relays 10

############################ Transparent proxy ################################
# This is somewhat equivalent to making _all_ request to aliased sources. So
# instead of adding an alias for all streams in the world, turn on the
# transparent proxy support. Using this on a server that has streams of it's
# own can be quite tricky, and then, as usual it is _very_ important that
# the server_name is correct. 
# Most mp3 playing clients have support for a http proxy 
# (afaik x11amp and winamp do, anyway). If listeners set your machine as this
# proxy, and you turn on transparent_proxy, then when a client requests
# http://whatever.com:port/whatever, then your icecast server will connect
# to whatever.com and feed the whatever-stream to the client. All subsequent
# request for this stream will use the same feed, just as if it was an alias.
# When running icecast with your own broadcasts, then you should turn this off,
# or anyone can bring your network down with a lot of relaying connects.
# Don't turn this on if you don't have a server_name set
############################
transparent_proxy 0

######################## Access Control Lists ##################################
# Perhaps you don't care who connects to your server, but I guess most people
# do. Icecast has 2 different ways of keeping people out. The first is using
# libwrap (tcpd, tcp wrappers, whatever you want to call it). It is a separate
# library written by Wietse Venema that over the years has become more or less
# a security standard in Unix. It should compile on every sane and unsane unix
# platform, and perhaps other platforms as well, I don't know.
# libwrap uses the files hosts.deny and hosts.allow, usually found in /etc
# or /usr/local/etc. You probably have to be root to edit these files.
# Try the man pages for tcpd and hosts_access for more information.
# There are 4 different icecast control thingies to use in hosts.deny/allow.
# First just "icecast", which controls _all_ connections, and kick in before
# anything is written or read on the socket. If a connection is denied here
# then it's bye bye. If it is allowed then depending on the type of the 
# connection (admin/client/source), the controls "icecast_client", 
# "icecast_admin", "icecast_source" describe who gets in.
# So to deny all clients except those matching *.se, add
# "icecast_client: ALL EXCEPT *.se" to hosts.deny. There are millions of
# variations on how to build a complete defence, and it's quite simple too.
# libwrap is a very powerful tool, consult the manpages for more information.
####
# The second way (which is always available) is using icecast's internal
# acl lists. The functionality is the same, but it is not as powerful when it
# comes to configuration and flexibilty as libwrap.
# You can specify acl rules either here in icecast.conf, or using the
# admin console. The syntax in icecast.conf is:
# allow <all|client|source|admin> <hostmask>
# deny <all|client|source|admin> <hostmask>
# So, using the same rule as above (allowing only clients from *.se)
# deny <client> *
# allow <client> *.se
# When using the internal acl rules, you need to specify a policy.
# This rule kick in when no allow or deny rule affects a connection.
# If you set acl_policy to 0, then connections who are not allowed by any
# allow rule will be denied, and the other way around if you set it to 1.
#########################

acl_policy 1
#deny all *
allow admin all
#allow all *.ryd.student.liu.se

################################################################################

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From jack at icecast.org  Sat Jun  2 01:54:39 2001
From: jack at icecast.org (Jack Moffitt)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 19:54:39 -0600
Subject: [icecast] Admin question[s]
In-Reply-To: <3B184333.A781CD22@socal.rr.com>
Message-ID: <20010601195439.F13060@i.cantcode.com>



> 
>   I tried that and then it tells me 'bad password' but my password is set
> properly in
> icecast.conf.

Run it in the foreground, and at the console, type 'set' to see what the
passwords are set to.

> If I leave 'ADMIN' out it let's me in with the password.  So maybe my
> icecast.conf is wrong[?]
>  [attached]  BTW, this is not on a public machine,  just my private "radio
> station" run on my lan.

If what you mean is the stuf fyou posted before, that isn't the admin
console, but you're logged in as a source.

jack.

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From kevin1a at socal.rr.com  Sat Jun  2 02:04:04 2001
From: kevin1a at socal.rr.com (Kevin Brouelette)
Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 19:04:04 -0700
Subject: [icecast] Admin question[s]
In-Reply-To: <20010601195439.F13060@i.cantcode.com>
Message-ID: <3B184993.F6D3E1F6@socal.rr.com>



Jack Moffitt wrote:

> >
> >   I tried that and then it tells me 'bad password' but my password is set
> > properly in
> > icecast.conf.
>
> Run it in the foreground, and at the console, type 'set' to see what the
> passwords are set to.
>

Current settings
         encoder_password:      linuxcast
          client_password:      prettyplease
           admin_password:      letmein
            oper_password:      breakin

That's the problem.  :)  So it didn't use the password I set for admin in
icecast.conf.
Can you guide me as to why and then I promise not to bother you much longer.
Thanks for getting me 'in'.

Kevin

>
> > If I leave 'ADMIN' out it let's me in with the password.  So maybe my
> > icecast.conf is wrong[?]
> >  [attached]  BTW, this is not on a public machine,  just my private "radio
> > station" run on my lan.
>
> If what you mean is the stuf fyou posted before, that isn't the admin
> console, but you're logged in as a source.
>
> jack.
>
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From jack at icecast.org  Sat Jun  2 02:11:52 2001
From: jack at icecast.org (Jack Moffitt)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 20:11:52 -0600
Subject: [icecast] Admin question[s]
In-Reply-To: <3B184993.F6D3E1F6@socal.rr.com>
Message-ID: <20010601201152.G13060@i.cantcode.com>



> 
> That's the problem.  :)  So it didn't use the password I set for admin in
> icecast.conf.
> Can you guide me as to why and then I promise not to bother you much longer.
> Thanks for getting me 'in'.

10 to 1 it's not finding your config file at all.

try giving it the explicit path.

icecast -c /path/to/conf

jack.

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From glen at designsolution.co.uk  Mon Jun  4 10:51:22 2001
From: glen at designsolution.co.uk (Glen Scott)
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 11:51:22 +0100
Subject: [icecast] Icecast or Apache streaming for static files?
Message-ID: <p05100305b74118033ae9@[169.160.150.12]>



Hi,

A simple question, that I would appreciate some opinions on:

What are the advantages for using Icecast to stream static MP3 files 
rather than just letting Apache handle the streaming?

Many thanks,

Glen Scott

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From kirk at braille.uwo.ca  Mon Jun  4 15:22:28 2001
From: kirk at braille.uwo.ca (Kirk Reiser)
Date: 04 Jun 2001 11:22:28 -0400
Subject: [icecast] need help/ideas please, oh and answers
In-Reply-To: <20010601153453.B13060@i.cantcode.com>
Message-ID: <x7elt06zij.fsf@speech.braille.uwo.ca>



Hi Jack and all:  I would like to thank you for those suggestions
Jack.  They worked just fine and you are right it is much simpler to
use apache for the streaming.  Once again, thank you!

  Kirk


-- 

Kirk Reiser				The Computer Braille Facility
e-mail: kirk at braille.uwo.ca		University of Western Ontario
phone: (519) 661-3061

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From jack at icecast.org  Mon Jun  4 15:51:05 2001
From: jack at icecast.org (Jack Moffitt)
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 09:51:05 -0600
Subject: [icecast] Icecast or Apache streaming for static files?
In-Reply-To: <p05100305b74118033ae9@[169.160.150.12]>
Message-ID: <20010604095105.D8553@i.cantcode.com>



> What are the advantages for using Icecast to stream static MP3 files 
> rather than just letting Apache handle the streaming?

There are a few variables.

In general, I always use apache for streaming static content.  There is
hardly a reason not to.

Now, when would I change my mind?

- if the songs are very large and the simultaneous listeners are as
well.  apache sucks more resources than icecast per client (one forked
process for each to icecast's 32 bytes extra or whatever).  this can be
worked around by putting apache on multiple boxes.  myplay used to run
exclusively on apache with thousands and thousands of users.  I'm not
sure what they are doing today.

- if the streaming needs any kind of logic.  When vorbis has bitrate
peeling, apache will no longer be a good fit.

So right now, unless apache is breaking on your setup, use it for static
streaming.  The static streaming feature in icecast was added for
convinience, but it's not really capable of much.  I was planning to add
much more to it at the time (like streaming playlists or streaming 30
second clips from full mp3s, or streaming a random 30 seconds of the
files, etc, but never got around to it.

Of course, this argument will change as soon as there is a decent RTSP
server.  I think one could be implemented within the Apache 2.0 module
API, but I haven't looked into this in depth.

jack.

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From gshang at uq.net.au  Mon Jun  4 15:51:31 2001
From: gshang at uq.net.au (Geoff Shang)
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 01:51:31 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [icecast] XML parser for icecast2
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.32.0106050146400.812-100000@data.home>



Hi:

I just checked out icecast2 from the bitkeeper repository.  But the
compiler is halting on src/config.c where it's trying to include
gnome-xml/xmlmemory.h and gnome-xml/parser.h.  Can someone tell me which
lib I need for these files?

Thanks,
Geoff.

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From jack at icecast.org  Mon Jun  4 16:00:46 2001
From: jack at icecast.org (Jack Moffitt)
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 10:00:46 -0600
Subject: [icecast] XML parser for icecast2
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.32.0106050146400.812-100000@data.home>
Message-ID: <20010604100046.F8553@i.cantcode.com>



> I just checked out icecast2 from the bitkeeper repository.  But the
> compiler is halting on src/config.c where it's trying to include
> gnome-xml/xmlmemory.h and gnome-xml/parser.h.  Can someone tell me which
> lib I need for these files?

libxml 1.8.10 or better, or 2.0 or better.

a lot of systems have 1.8.9.  For the beta release, either will work,
but I haven't added the compatibility functions yet.

The reason this happens is that they wanted 2.0 apps to be written, so
they added the 2.0 api to 1.8.10 and later.  That way, you could write
apps to the stable versions, that would later run without change on the
latest and greatest.

Unfortunately, while this was a pretty good move I think, none of the
software distributors (besides Ximian GNOME) ever upgraded to libxml
1.8.10, so lots of people started writing libxml2 api code, which of
course broke everywhere.

It's fairly easy to make it compatible, though, so there's no reason not
to.

jack.

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From scott at myplay.com  Mon Jun  4 16:47:05 2001
From: scott at myplay.com (Scott Manley)
Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 09:47:05 -0700
Subject: [icecast] Icecast or Apache streaming for static files?
In-Reply-To: <p05100305b74118033ae9@[169.160.150.12]>
Message-ID: <3B1BBB89.64538138@myplay.com>



Glen Scott wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> A simple question, that I would appreciate some opinions on:
> 
> What are the advantages for using Icecast to stream static MP3 files
> rather than just letting Apache handle the streaming?

Icecast has a lower performance overhead, I can push more streams with
icecast than I can with a straight Apache.


-- 
Scott Manley (AKA Szyzyg)
Streaming Media Hacker
www.myplay.com

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From scott at myplay.com  Mon Jun  4 16:54:46 2001
From: scott at myplay.com (Scott Manley)
Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 09:54:46 -0700
Subject: [icecast] Icecast or Apache streaming for static files?
In-Reply-To: <20010604095105.D8553@i.cantcode.com>
Message-ID: <3B1BBD56.BAC3F1C7@myplay.com>



Jack Moffitt wrote:
> 
> > What are the advantages for using Icecast to stream static MP3 files
> > rather than just letting Apache handle the streaming?
> 
> There are a few variables.
> 
> In general, I always use apache for streaming static content.  There is
> hardly a reason not to.
> 
> Now, when would I change my mind?
> 
> - if the songs are very large and the simultaneous listeners are as
> well.  apache sucks more resources than icecast per client (one forked
> process for each to icecast's 32 bytes extra or whatever).  this can be
> worked around by putting apache on multiple boxes.  myplay used to run
> exclusively on apache with thousands and thousands of users.  I'm not
> sure what they are doing today.

We do indeed still use apache, it's efficient enough for our purposes
and rock solid - we've never had any software failures. Certainly apache
has more overhead. Myplay of course deals purely in individual streams,
there's no 

> - if the streaming needs any kind of logic.  When vorbis has bitrate
> peeling, apache will no longer be a good fit.
Actually, the apache module interface is perfectly suited to adding
stream logic and myplay has a shitload of this to build playlists and
samples in realtime.

> So right now, unless apache is breaking on your setup, use it for static
> streaming.  The static streaming feature in icecast was added for
> convinience, but it's not really capable of much.  I was planning to add
> much more to it at the time (like streaming playlists or streaming 30
> second clips from full mp3s, or streaming a random 30 seconds of the
> files, etc, but never got around to it.

Myplay has this kind of logic in an apache module, it's pretty trivial
to develop.

> Of course, this argument will change as soon as there is a decent RTSP
> server.  I think one could be implemented within the Apache 2.0 module
> API, but I haven't looked into this in depth.

Yaayy RTSP....
Jack - you might have something there, I will look into this.


-- 
Scott Manley (AKA Szyzyg)
Streaming Media Hacker
www.myplay.com

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From gshang at uq.net.au  Mon Jun  4 18:27:01 2001
From: gshang at uq.net.au (Geoff Shang)
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 04:27:01 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [icecast] XML parser for icecast2
In-Reply-To: <20010604100046.F8553@i.cantcode.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.32.0106050424200.812-100000@data.home>



On Mon, 4 Jun 2001, Jack Moffitt wrote:

> libxml 1.8.10 or better, or 2.0 or better.

FYI: I grabbed libxml2-2.3.10 (June 1) and compiled it.  I had to change
all references in icecast/src/config.c and icecast/src/stats.c from
gnome-xml to libxml and then it worked.

Geoff.

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From garym at canada.com  Tue Jun  5 20:58:41 2001
From: garym at canada.com (Gary Lawrence Murphy)
Date: 05 Jun 2001 16:58:41 -0400
Subject: [icecast] Re: Stallman @ NYU
In-Reply-To: <3B14AFD0.F615A2F9@dti.net>
Message-ID: <m2snheej9a.fsf@maya.dyndns.org>



>>>>> "j" == joly  <WWWhatsup> writes:

    j> One appeal that Stallman did make, which strikes me as
    j> reasonable, is that in normal use when referring to the OS
    j> rather than just the kernel - one use the designation GNU/Linux
    j> .. to give full credit to the GPL community. "Still less
    j> syllables than Windows2000."

(sigh) Except that a typical Linux is less than 50% GNU (FSF)
software, and less than 60% GPL (worse if you measure by the byte), so
to be fair and precise, we would have to call it (take a deep breath
now ...)

GNU/BSD/ASL/PD/QPL/MPL/SCL/NCL/DCL/IBMPL/JOSL/NOSL/SCL/NGPL/PL/MCVWL/Linux

and then we get into the argument of who's name goes in what order and
which ones we leave out for brevity.

Where it does get termed GNU/Linux, as with Debian, an immediate
pressure arises to make it _exclusively_ GNU/Linux and prevent the
distribution of non-FSF-approved open source material.

It is better to identify the FSF and GPL (not the same thing) where
they apply, on a package by package basis.


-- 
Gary Lawrence Murphy <garym at linux.ca>: office voice/fax: 01 519 4222723
T(C)Inc Business Innovations through Open Source http://www.teledyn.com
KernelWiki Community Linux Docs: http://kernelbook.sourceforge.net/wiki

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From Bryan.Walls at msfc.nasa.gov  Wed Jun  6 00:14:51 2001
From: Bryan.Walls at msfc.nasa.gov (Bryan Walls)
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 19:14:51 -0500
Subject: [icecast] installing using rpm
In-Reply-To: <3ACC8168.84C77D3A@myplay.com>
Message-ID: <p05100301b74315ce4455@[128.158.143.46]>



I've installed icecast on a previous system using the .tar.gz package 
and making it. I've just created a new Red Hat variant (Yellow Dog 
linux for PPC), and installed it as an RPM package. Things look very 
strange -- the conf files are in /etc/icecast, and when I manually 
run icecast it doesn't seem to where they are, it doesn't find the 
admin templates, etc.

What's the right way to set icecast up to run as a system service on reboot?


-- 
Bryan Walls                             My words are not NASA policy.
Bryan.Walls at msfc.nasa.gov               (256)544-3311voice,544-7128fax
http://science.nasa.gov	http://liftoff.msfc.nasa.gov http://kids.msfc.nasa.gov

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From gshang at uq.net.au  Wed Jun  6 08:05:58 2001
From: gshang at uq.net.au (Geoff Shang)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 18:05:58 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [icecast] Adventures with icecast2
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.32.0106061805310.812-100000@data.home>



Hi all:

OK, this is one of those "why doesn't it work" type questions.  I'm
basically stumped.  All the server info in the xml file and example.c seem
to match, but it's coming back with an error 3 which is no login (as far
as I can understand).  There's nothing in the icecast2 logs to show that
an attempt has been made.

hmmm. It just occured to me that perhaps it's linking in the wrong version
of libshout.  I'm no C programmer so I don't know how to tell.  My
makefile looks like this:

all: example

example: example.c
        $(CC) -o example example.c -L../src -lshout -L../../log -logg -lvorbis

The question being, is it getting libshout from ../src or from /usr/lib?

Assuming that's all correct, the only thing I can think of is that either
my config and example.c do not agree, and/or one contains some sort of
syntax error.  I include both below.

A couple of other questions.  I know there was some discussion as to the
correct syntax for using the example program.  Is it indeed `cat foo.ogg
|./example` as posted on i.cantcode.com, or is this no longer correct?
Also, I'm guessing that the mount has to be in the form "/foo.ogg" in
order to work.  Is this correct?

Thanks,
Geoff.

My XML config:

<icecast>
        <location>Linux-speakup.org</location>
        <admin>geoff at braille.uwo.ca</admin>

        <limits>
                <clients>50</clients>
                <sources>2</sources>
                <threadpool>5</threadpool>
                <client-timeout>15</client-timeout>
        </limits>

        <source-password>audio</source-password>

        <directory>
                <touch-freq>5</touch-freq>
                <server>
                        <host>yp.icecast.org</host>
                        <touch-freq>15</touch-freq>
                </server>
        </directory>

        <hostname>bumpy.braille.uwo.ca</hostname>
        <port>9000</port>
        <!--<bind-address>129.100.109.31</bind-address>-->

        <paths>
                <basedir>/usr/friends/geoff/ice2</basedir>
                <logdir>/usr/friends/geoff/ice2</logdir>
        </paths>

        <logging>
                <accesslog>access.log</accesslog>
                <errorlog>error.log</errorlog>
        </logging>
</icecast>

and here's example.c:

#include <stdio.h>

#include <stdio.h>
#include <stdlib.h>
#include <string.h>

#include <shout/shout.h>

int main()
{
        shout_conn_t conn;
        char buff[4096];
        long read, ret, total;

        shout_init_connection(&conn);

        conn.ip = "129.100.109.31";
        conn.port = 9000;
        conn.password = "audio";
        conn.mount = "/test.ogg";

        if (shout_connect(&conn)) {
                printf("Connected to server...\n");
                total = 0;
                while (1) {
                        read = fread(buff, 1, 4096, stdin);
                        total = total + read;

                        if (read > 0) {
                                ret = shout_send_data(&conn, buff, read);
                                if (!ret) {
                                        printf("DEBUG: Send error: %i...\n", conn.error);
                                        break;
                                }
                        } else {
                                break;
                        }

                        shout_sleep(&conn);
                }
        } else {
                printf("Couldn't connect...%i\n", conn.error);
        }

        shout_disconnect(&conn);

        return 0;
}
~

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From msmith at labyrinth.net.au  Wed Jun  6 08:50:16 2001
From: msmith at labyrinth.net.au (Michael Smith)
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 18:50:16 +1000
Subject: [icecast] Adventures with icecast2
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.32.0106061805310.812-100000@data.home>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010606185016.41eeabb0@mail.labyrinth.net.au>



At 06:05 PM 6/6/01 +1000, you wrote:
>Hi all:
>
>OK, this is one of those "why doesn't it work" type questions.  I'm
>basically stumped.  All the server info in the xml file and example.c seem
>to match, but it's coming back with an error 3 which is no login (as far
>as I can understand).  There's nothing in the icecast2 logs to show that
>an attempt has been made.
>
>hmmm. It just occured to me that perhaps it's linking in the wrong version
>of libshout.  I'm no C programmer so I don't know how to tell.  My
>makefile looks like this:
>
>all: example
>
>example: example.c
>	$(CC) -o example example.c -L../src -lshout -L../../log -logg -lvorbis
>
>The question being, is it getting libshout from ../src or from /usr/lib?

Try linking it with an explicit library (like 
gcc -o example example.c ../src/libshout.a  (plus other arguments that it
needs)

That'll at least ensure that it's statically linked with the right library,
which is enough for testing purposes.

>
>Assuming that's all correct, the only thing I can think of is that either
>my config and example.c do not agree, and/or one contains some sort of
>syntax error.  I include both below.
>
>A couple of other questions.  I know there was some discussion as to the
>correct syntax for using the example program.  Is it indeed `cat foo.ogg
>|./example` as posted on i.cantcode.com, or is this no longer correct?
>Also, I'm guessing that the mount has to be in the form "/foo.ogg" in
>order to work.  Is this correct?

Usage is correct. The mount can be whatever you want, but if it doesn't
end with .ogg, many current players (xmms, winamp at least, probably
others) won't play it (they try to decode it as mp3).

Your config files look fine. Are you sure you're telling icecast to use
this file?

Nothing else comes to mind.

Once you get this working, you might also like to try ices2, which now
does most of what it needs to for an initial release (apart from some
more extension playlist stuff) - it works well (at least for me). It even
has an (untested) oss input module for live encoding from line-in. 

Michael

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From gshang at uq.net.au  Wed Jun  6 09:15:39 2001
From: gshang at uq.net.au (Geoff Shang)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 19:15:39 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [icecast] Adventures with icecast2
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010606185016.41eeabb0@mail.labyrinth.net.au>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.32.0106061905440.812-100000@data.home>



On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Michael Smith wrote:

> >	$(CC) -o example example.c -L../src -lshout -L../../log -logg -lvorbis
> >
> >The question being, is it getting libshout from ../src or from /usr/lib?
>
> Try linking it with an explicit library (like
> gcc -o example example.c ../src/libshout.a  (plus other arguments that it
> needs)
>
> That'll at least ensure that it's statically linked with the right library,
> which is enough for testing purposes.

hmmmm..So you don't use -l for static libs (I really know next to nothing
about this stuff).  I'lll give it a shot.

> Your config files look fine. Are you sure you're telling icecast to use
> this file?

Oh yes.  If I'm sure of nothing else, I'm sure of this.  Since I'm running
as a user on someone else's system, it complains a lot if I don't (can't
open /usr/local/icecast bla bla bla).  And the XML is displayed by the
server upon startup, or in my case, is written to nohup.out.

> Nothing else comes to mind.

Lets hope it's the libs then.

> Once you get this working, you might also like to try ices2, which now
> does most of what it needs to for an initial release (apart from some
> more extension playlist stuff) - it works well (at least for me). It even
> has an (untested) oss input module for live encoding from line-in.

Cool.  This is mainly to establish that the server works.  I'll probably
try ices on my own system, but the server needs to be where the bandwidth
is.  Where is ices2 living, is it icecast CVS or bitkeeper?

Geoff.

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From gshang at uq.net.au  Wed Jun  6 09:38:33 2001
From: gshang at uq.net.au (Geoff Shang)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 19:38:33 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [icecast] Adventures with icecast2
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010606185016.41eeabb0@mail.labyrinth.net.au>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.32.0106061934540.812-100000@data.home>



On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Michael Smith wrote:

> Try linking it with an explicit library (like
> gcc -o example example.c ../src/libshout.a  (plus other arguments that it
> needs)

I *really* don't know about this stuff.

I don't have a libshout.a.  I have libshout.la which it didn't
recognise, and shout.lo which resulted in a host of undefined references.

So I guess I don't have a static lib.  So How do I compile one, and is
this what I want anyway?

Geoff.

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From msmith at labyrinth.net.au  Wed Jun  6 09:47:30 2001
From: msmith at labyrinth.net.au (Michael Smith)
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 19:47:30 +1000
Subject: [icecast] Adventures with icecast2
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.32.0106061905440.812-100000@data.home>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010606194730.41bb1a00@mail.labyrinth.net.au>



>hmmmm..So you don't use -l for static libs (I really know next to nothing
>about this stuff).  I'lll give it a shot.

You usually do use -l, but this just makes absolutely certain that it's 
directly linking in what we tell it to, instead of going through the search
paths.

>Cool.  This is mainly to establish that the server works.  I'll probably
>try ices on my own system, but the server needs to be where the bandwidth
>is.  Where is ices2 living, is it icecast CVS or bitkeeper?

Module 'ices' in icecast bitkeeper. It also relies on several of the same
sub-modules as icecast - avl,log,net,thread, and timing.

Michael

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From msmith at labyrinth.net.au  Wed Jun  6 09:50:45 2001
From: msmith at labyrinth.net.au (Michael Smith)
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 19:50:45 +1000
Subject: [icecast] Adventures with icecast2
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.32.0106061934540.812-100000@data.home>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010606195045.41be9c00@mail.labyrinth.net.au>



At 07:38 PM 6/6/01 +1000, you wrote:
>On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Michael Smith wrote:
>
>> Try linking it with an explicit library (like
>> gcc -o example example.c ../src/libshout.a  (plus other arguments that it
>> needs)
>
>I *really* don't know about this stuff.
>
>I don't have a libshout.a.  I have libshout.la which it didn't
>recognise, and shout.lo which resulted in a host of undefined references.
>
>So I guess I don't have a static lib.  So How do I compile one, and is
>this what I want anyway?

I guess it doesn't build static libs - the .la/.lo stuff is just libtool
crap which does nothing except get in the way and be annoying. libtool
sucks.

You'd have to modify the makefiles to make it build a static library,
so it's probably best not to. I suggest you just rename the shout libs
to something else (libshout2.so, for example). Then just link the example
with -lshout2 instead of -lshout

Michael

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From gshang at uq.net.au  Wed Jun  6 12:25:39 2001
From: gshang at uq.net.au (Geoff Shang)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 22:25:39 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [icecast] Adventures with icecast2
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010606195045.41be9c00@mail.labyrinth.net.au>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.32.0106062205280.812-100000@data.home>



On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Michael Smith wrote:

> You'd have to modify the makefiles to make it build a static library,
> so it's probably best not to. I suggest you just rename the shout libs
> to something else (libshout2.so, for example). Then just link the example
> with -lshout2 instead of -lshout

Solved my problem (or at least this one).  For those who will follow me,
the libs end up in libshout/src/.libs and of course, .libs doesn't come up
in your standard ls.

Now to see if this all makes any difference.

Geoff.

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From jack at icecast.org  Wed Jun  6 14:36:41 2001
From: jack at icecast.org (Jack Moffitt)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 08:36:41 -0600
Subject: [icecast] Adventures with icecast2
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.32.0106061805310.812-100000@data.home>
Message-ID: <20010606083641.I8750@i.cantcode.com>



> OK, this is one of those "why doesn't it work" type questions.  I'm
> basically stumped.  

This type of feedback is good, and will help get rid of potential
problems.

> hmmm. It just occured to me that perhaps it's linking in the wrong version
> of libshout.  I'm no C programmer so I don't know how to tell.  My
> makefile looks like this:

A quick way to tell is add some printf() to one of the libshout calls in
./src.  Recompile.  Run.  Does it print? If not, it's finding some other
version of libshout.  Delete the libshout.so file from /usr/lib and
recompile.  It should work now.  Or if you have redhat, rpm -e
libshout-devel might work.

> Assuming that's all correct, the only thing I can think of is that either
> my config and example.c do not agree, and/or one contains some sort of
> syntax error.  I include both below.

Try the above and let me know.

jack.

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From jack at icecast.org  Wed Jun  6 14:48:59 2001
From: jack at icecast.org (Jack Moffitt)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 08:48:59 -0600
Subject: [icecast] Adventures with icecast2
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.32.0106061905440.812-100000@data.home>
Message-ID: <20010606084859.J8750@i.cantcode.com>



> Oh yes.  If I'm sure of nothing else, I'm sure of this.  Since I'm running
> as a user on someone else's system, it complains a lot if I don't (can't
> open /usr/local/icecast bla bla bla).  And the XML is displayed by the
> server upon startup, or in my case, is written to nohup.out.

It won't try to open anything under /usr/local unless you tell it to.

jack.

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From jack at icecast.org  Wed Jun  6 14:53:04 2001
From: jack at icecast.org (Jack Moffitt)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 08:53:04 -0600
Subject: [icecast] Adventures with icecast2
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.32.0106061934540.812-100000@data.home>
Message-ID: <20010606085304.K8750@i.cantcode.com>



> I don't have a libshout.a.  I have libshout.la which it didn't
> recognise, and shout.lo which resulted in a host of undefined references.
> 
> So I guess I don't have a static lib.  So How do I compile one, and is
> this what I want anyway?

It should be compiling one.  Look in ./src/.libs (automake hides the
real files in these directories).  Normally, you can use the .la's, but
since you're compiling by hand, libtool gets in your way, so just
reference the .a directly in .libs.

jack.

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From gshang at uq.net.au  Wed Jun  6 15:46:01 2001
From: gshang at uq.net.au (Geoff Shang)
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 01:46:01 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [icecast] Adventures with icecast2
In-Reply-To: <20010606084859.J8750@i.cantcode.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.32.0106070143580.812-100000@data.home>



On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Jack Moffitt wrote:

> It won't try to open anything under /usr/local unless you tell it to.

urrrr..Yes it will.

[geoff:~]$ ice2/ice2
FATAL: could not open /usr/local/icecast/logs/error.log for error logging
FATAL: could not open /usr/local/icecast/logs/access.log for access logging
FATAL: Could not start logging

I'm pretty sure this and other defaults are defined in src/config.c or
something like that.

Geoff.

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From jack at icecast.org  Wed Jun  6 15:50:53 2001
From: jack at icecast.org (Jack Moffitt)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 09:50:53 -0600
Subject: [icecast] Adventures with icecast2
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.32.0106070143580.812-100000@data.home>
Message-ID: <20010606095053.T8750@i.cantcode.com>



> urrrr..Yes it will.
> 
> [geoff:~]$ ice2/ice2
> FATAL: could not open /usr/local/icecast/logs/error.log for error logging
> FATAL: could not open /usr/local/icecast/logs/access.log for access logging
> FATAL: Could not start logging
> 
> I'm pretty sure this and other defaults are defined in src/config.c or
> something like that.

Sorry.  My bad.  but you can tell it to put the logpath somewhere else.  

<logpath>/tmp</logpath> works for me.

jack.

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From home at simonb.org.uk  Wed Jun  6 19:04:02 2001
From: home at simonb.org.uk (Simon Blandford)
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 20:04:02 +0100
Subject: [icecast] Live Webcast in OGG
Message-ID: <3B1E7EA2.BB9692F4@simonb.org.uk>



Hi,

Is it possible to stream live, as opposed to recorded, OGG format yet? I
had a look at the Icecast 2.0 beta instructions and it ends in a program
called "example" which will stream a pre-recorded OGG file to the
server. Is there anything to stream directly from the soundcard yet? If
not, is there anything in the pipeline?

If it is possible, what bitrates in mono/stereo are available. I am
currently using 24kbs MP3 stereo for sending two languages
simultaneously, one panned left and the other panned right. Obviously,
there are left-right crosstalk problems and some people with naff
modems/ISPs are not getting a reliable stream. This is the motivation to
move to a more efficient format, so I can reduce the bitrate. I expect
some crosstalk as long as it isn't too distracting.

Regards,
Simon.

P.S. Please add some news to the website. Anyone would think the project
died in Feburary!

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From msmith at labyrinth.net.au  Thu Jun  7 02:30:26 2001
From: msmith at labyrinth.net.au (Michael Smith)
Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 12:30:26 +1000
Subject: [icecast] Live Webcast in OGG
In-Reply-To: <3B1E7EA2.BB9692F4@simonb.org.uk>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010607123026.42631360@mail.labyrinth.net.au>



At 08:04 PM 6/6/01 +0100, you wrote:
>Hi,
>
>Is it possible to stream live, as opposed to recorded, OGG format yet? I
>had a look at the Icecast 2.0 beta instructions and it ends in a program
>called "example" which will stream a pre-recorded OGG file to the
>server. Is there anything to stream directly from the soundcard yet? If
>not, is there anything in the pipeline?

ices2 does this, though the soundcard input module is largely untested.
You can check it out as the 'ices' module from bitkeeper.

Michael

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From brendan at kublai.com  Thu Jun  7 02:38:38 2001
From: brendan at kublai.com (Brendan Cully)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 22:38:38 -0400
Subject: [icecast] stupid question
Message-ID: <20010606223838.B527@xanadu.kublai.com>



Here's a stupid question:

Do icecast/ices 2 ONLY support vorbis, or can they still handle mp3s?
I am not ready to stream only vorbis yet, since I don't know how many
people are equipped to hear them. If icecast/ices 2 don't support mp3,
then I have some hacking to do on ices 1 (namely, I want to play the
same stream at two bitrates concurrently), but if icecast/ices 2 do,
then I'll check them out and devote any hacking I may have to do to
them.

Thanks in advance for the stupid answer :)

-Brendan

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From jack at icecast.org  Thu Jun  7 00:59:09 2001
From: jack at icecast.org (Jack Moffitt)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 18:59:09 -0600
Subject: [icecast] stupid question
In-Reply-To: <20010606223838.B527@xanadu.kublai.com>
Message-ID: <20010606185909.C1910@i.cantcode.com>



> Do icecast/ices 2 ONLY support vorbis, or can they still handle mp3s?
> I am not ready to stream only vorbis yet, since I don't know how many
> people are equipped to hear them. If icecast/ices 2 don't support mp3,
> then I have some hacking to do on ices 1 (namely, I want to play the
> same stream at two bitrates concurrently), but if icecast/ices 2 do,
> then I'll check them out and devote any hacking I may have to do to
> them.

icecast 2 and ices 2 currently only support vorbis.

There are hooks for icecast2 to support mp3, and I plan to implement
this soon.

michael will have to answer regarding ices2, but I suspect mp3 is not
going to get in there unless someone else submits a beautiful patch.

jack.

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From msmith at labyrinth.net.au  Thu Jun  7 03:17:50 2001
From: msmith at labyrinth.net.au (Michael Smith)
Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 13:17:50 +1000
Subject: [icecast] stupid question
In-Reply-To: <20010606185909.C1910@i.cantcode.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010607131750.410bdc10@mail.labyrinth.net.au>



>
>michael will have to answer regarding ices2, but I suspect mp3 is not
>going to get in there unless someone else submits a beautiful patch.

ices2 could support mp3, but it would be a non-trivial exercise, plus
it would require libshout2 to support mp3 as well (which it does not,
currently). If anyone wants to implement it, I'll be happy enough to 
add it, but I don't intend to write such support myself.

Michael

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From jaromil at dyne.org  Thu Jun  7 12:14:01 2001
From: jaromil at dyne.org (jaromil)
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 11:14:01 -0100
Subject: [icecast] stupid question
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010607131750.410bdc10@mail.labyrinth.net.au>
Message-ID: <20010607111401.B213@dyne.org>



On Thu, Jun 07, 2001 at 01:17:50PM +1000, Michael Smith wrote:
> >
> >michael will have to answer regarding ices2, but I suspect mp3 is not
> >going to get in there unless someone else submits a beautiful patch.
> 
> ices2 could support mp3, but it would be a non-trivial exercise, plus
> it would require libshout2 to support mp3 as well

if the libshout2 namespace changed from the previous version there
should be no problem in linking both libshout1 and libshout2 into the
same application.


-- 
jrml ..//korova.dyne.org
6EEE 4FB2 2555 7ACD 8496  AB99 E2A2 93B4 6C62 4800

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From mg-ice at grant.org  Thu Jun  7 19:25:05 2001
From: mg-ice at grant.org (Michael Grant)
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 21:25:05 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: [icecast] using a web server?
Message-ID: <200106071925.VAA02030@splat.grant.org>



This is a stupid question...

Why would one use a streaming audio server versus just a web server to 
stream static files like a juke box?

Here are some reasons I came up with:

1) A web server won't concatinate songs together, but if someone is
only downloading say a one-off clip, perhaps a web server is exactly
what is needed

2) Titles (or rather meta-data) don't get inserted into the stream,
though they could somehow be inserted into the file ala shoutcast
style

3) icecast seems to pace sending out it's packets so as to not overrun
the receiver.  This doesn't seem necessary since tcp does this
automatically.  Perhaps it doesn't do this and I'm reading the code wrong.

So, aside from these reasons, why would someone put up a streaming
audio server to stream static files (i.e. click here to listen to this 
song, rather than listening to a concatinated stream)?

I know some of you folks out there have put together perl scripts and
php scripts to do a sort of juke box with icecast, I'm just wondering
what the reasoning is.

-Mike

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From scott at myplay.com  Thu Jun  7 19:06:51 2001
From: scott at myplay.com (Scott Manley)
Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 12:06:51 -0700
Subject: [icecast] using a web server?
In-Reply-To: <200106071925.VAA02030@splat.grant.org>
Message-ID: <3B1FD0CB.78484925@myplay.com>



> 1) A web server won't concatinate songs together, but if someone is
> only downloading say a one-off clip, perhaps a web server is exactly
> what is needed

Actually.... that's how DJ Mixes work at myplay.....

> 2) Titles (or rather meta-data) don't get inserted into the stream,
> though they could somehow be inserted into the file ala shoutcast
> style

Umm we do that too

> 3) icecast seems to pace sending out it's packets so as to not overrun
> the receiver.  This doesn't seem necessary since tcp does this
> automatically.  Perhaps it doesn't do this and I'm reading the code wrong.

We do this too to make us less appealing to warez kiddiez...

Of course this is all in our server modules


-- 
Scott Manley (AKA Szyzyg)
Streaming Media Hacker
www.myplay.com

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From jack at icecast.org  Thu Jun  7 19:42:31 2001
From: jack at icecast.org (Jack Moffitt)
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 13:42:31 -0600
Subject: [icecast] using a web server?
In-Reply-To: <200106071925.VAA02030@splat.grant.org>
Message-ID: <20010607134231.E25729@i.cantcode.com>



> 1) A web server won't concatinate songs together, but if someone is
> only downloading say a one-off clip, perhaps a web server is exactly
> what is needed

No, but if you send a playlist or m3u with more than one song, there's
no need for the webserver to concatentate them.  This is how some large
sites work.  LaunchCast did it this way.  I believe ImagineRadio
(SonicNet Radio) did it this way too.  

> 2) Titles (or rather meta-data) don't get inserted into the stream,
> though they could somehow be inserted into the file ala shoutcast
> style

Many would claim this doesn't happen on icecast either.  And with vorbis
this isn't an issue.

> 3) icecast seems to pace sending out it's packets so as to not overrun
> the receiver.  This doesn't seem necessary since tcp does this
> automatically.  Perhaps it doesn't do this and I'm reading the code wrong.

Icecast doesn't do this.  It sends data to clients as fast as it
receives data from sources.  For _real_ streams, ie, realtime data, you
don't need to pace, as the data is generated in realtime.  For simulated
realtime stream, the source program has to pace the data.  If a client
reads to slow on an apache stream, no big deal. apache will wait.  If a
client reads data from an icecast stream too slow, it won't work.  The
realtime nature of the data means we have to send the data in time.  Too
slow, or too fast is unacceptable.

> So, aside from these reasons, why would someone put up a streaming
> audio server to stream static files (i.e. click here to listen to this 
> song, rather than listening to a concatinated stream)?

It depends.  Some people want radio functionality.  Ie, tune in to some
radio program.  You may start in the middle of the song or just before
the end.

Others want to have music stream, meaning that you click and it starts
playing instead of downloading.

I say there are 3 types of streams:

1) Live stream.  recording from the soundcard and encoding live, etc.  
2) Simulated live streams.  reencoding on teh fly or sending
concatenated mp3s/oggs to the server.  It looks like it's live, but it's
been preencoded.

3) on demand streams.  click on a file, hear it instantly.

icecast is built to handle 1 and 2.  And not really for 3.  On the other
hand, Apache was built for 3 and not for 1 or 2.

Use the right tool for the job.

In some extreme cases, icecast may be the right tool for the job in #3,
but not unless this user is going to spend time tweaking it to work.  I
haven't seen a case of on demand streaming that couldn't be solved by
apache and a farm of boxes.

> I know some of you folks out there have put together perl scripts and
> php scripts to do a sort of juke box with icecast, I'm just wondering
> what the reasoning is.

Perl and PHP are easier to hack on than icecast.

jack.

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From brendan at kublai.com  Fri Jun  8 14:09:56 2001
From: brendan at kublai.com (Brendan Cully)
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 10:09:56 -0400
Subject: [icecast] stupid question
In-Reply-To: <20010606185909.C1910@i.cantcode.com>
Message-ID: <20010608100956.A435@xanadu.kublai.com>



On Wednesday, 06 June 2001 at 18:59, Jack Moffitt wrote:
> > Do icecast/ices 2 ONLY support vorbis, or can they still handle mp3s?
> > I am not ready to stream only vorbis yet, since I don't know how many
> > people are equipped to hear them. If icecast/ices 2 don't support mp3,
> > then I have some hacking to do on ices 1 (namely, I want to play the
> > same stream at two bitrates concurrently), but if icecast/ices 2 do,
> > then I'll check them out and devote any hacking I may have to do to
> > them.
> 
> icecast 2 and ices 2 currently only support vorbis.
> 
> There are hooks for icecast2 to support mp3, and I plan to implement
> this soon.
> 
> michael will have to answer regarding ices2, but I suspect mp3 is not
> going to get in there unless someone else submits a beautiful patch.

Thanks for the info. After taking a quick look at ices2 I decided it
would probably be a lot easier to hack ices1 to do multiple streams
from the same playlist.

I've got it working except for metadata updates (and I commented out
the lame reset code between songs to see if that was still necessary,
and it is :) - I'll post a patch probably later today after I've fixed
those two things and gone over it a bit.

I haven't read the libshout spec too much, but apparently it's safe to
call shout_sleep (conn) for multiple connections in the same thread?
That's what I'm doing atm, seems to work.

BTW ices in CVS needs quite a lot of Makefile.am/configure.in
massaging to compile - and the thread library doesn't compile out of
the box either, due to some function renaming issues. Looks like these
two were just abandoned in the middle of a reorg...

Thanks,
Brendan

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From brendan at kublai.com  Fri Jun  8 15:18:40 2001
From: brendan at kublai.com (Brendan Cully)
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 11:18:40 -0400
Subject: [icecast] [PATCH] let ices do multiple streams of the same playlist
In-Reply-To: <20010608100956.A435@xanadu.kublai.com>
Message-ID: <20010608111840.C435@xanadu.kublai.com>


This patch:

1. makes ices compile in my system. As I said, the CVS repository
   looks like it was abandoned in the middle of a reorganisation.
2. Lets ices stream the same playlist at multiple bitrates.
3. Has a lot of pointless whitespace changes. I didn't feel like
   learning how to teach emacs how to blend in better. Also the code
   looks like it was written by a guy with a 150-column terminal.

Incompatible differences:
the ices:Reencode tag in the config file is now in the streams
section.

I'm not 100% sure I covered all the error conditions, I wrote this
pretty quickly.

Thanks,
Brendan

PS: Jack, what's it take to get a patch into CVS? I have an ancient
patch for the liveice %s format-string bug (which can cause a lot of
segfaults) too. And it would be nice if the current CVS tree would
compile. I can send patches for that...

On Friday, 08 June 2001 at 10:09, Brendan Cully wrote:
> Thanks for the info. After taking a quick look at ices2 I decided it
> would probably be a lot easier to hack ices1 to do multiple streams
> from the same playlist.
> 
> I've got it working except for metadata updates (and I commented out
> the lame reset code between songs to see if that was still necessary,
> and it is :) - I'll post a patch probably later today after I've fixed
> those two things and gone over it a bit.


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From jack at icecast.org  Fri Jun  8 17:09:03 2001
From: jack at icecast.org (Jack Moffitt)
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 11:09:03 -0600
Subject: [icecast] new maintainers
Message-ID: <20010608110903.M28120@i.cantcode.com>



So I've been doing this myself for far too long, I'm glad to have some
good help these days.

ices 1.x is now going to be maintained by Brendan Cully.  Brendan has
also done most of the network/imap code in mutt, and is working on
multistreaming in ices 1.x.  Hopefully we'll see some good stuff.

ices 2.x (the vorbis version) is coming along very nicely and is
maintained by Michael Smith.  Michael's been hacking on vorbis for a
long time, and I'm glad I've got him helping on icecast finally :)

liveice is still virtually unmaintained.  it's no longer relevant with
ices 2 for vorbis things, if anyone wants to maintain this or has
patches, Scott Manley is the person to talk to.  

All other code is maintained by me.  My focus is currently on getting
icecast 2 and the new directory code out the door.  icecast 2 will do
mp3 and vorbis, but you'll need a separate source tool for each (ices
1.x or ices 2.x).  At least for now.

I'll post some of my directory stuff soon.  Progress on icecast itself
has been slow the last few weeks since I recently moved to New Mexico
(god, i love it here), and won't have DSL until tuesday.  

Modems suck.

jack.

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From lists at lastonepicked.com  Fri Jun  8 17:12:36 2001
From: lists at lastonepicked.com (Hunter Hillegas)
Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 10:12:36 -0700
Subject: [icecast] new maintainers
In-Reply-To: <20010608110903.M28120@i.cantcode.com>
Message-ID: <B7465593.1C601%lists@lastonepicked.com>



What is multistreaming?

> From: Jack Moffitt <jack at icecast.org>
> Reply-To: icecast at xiph.org
> Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 11:09:03 -0600
> To: icecast at xiph.org
> Cc: icecast-dev at xiph.org
> Subject: [icecast] new maintainers
> 
> working on
> multistreaming in ices 1.x

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From scott at myplay.com  Fri Jun  8 16:55:57 2001
From: scott at myplay.com (Scott Manley)
Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 09:55:57 -0700
Subject: [icecast] new maintainers
In-Reply-To: <20010608110903.M28120@i.cantcode.com>
Message-ID: <3B21039D.CDF4B46D@myplay.com>



> liveice is still virtually unmaintained.  it's no longer relevant with
> ices 2 for vorbis things, if anyone wants to maintain this or has
> patches, Scott Manley is the person to talk to.

I don't have a place to put up web pages about LiveIce et al, and with
all the myplay stuff taking my time my maintenance has been
non-existant.


-- 
Scott Manley (AKA Szyzyg)
Streaming Media Hacker
www.myplay.com

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From brendan at kublai.com  Fri Jun  8 17:36:55 2001
From: brendan at kublai.com (Brendan Cully)
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 13:36:55 -0400
Subject: [icecast] new maintainers
In-Reply-To: <3B21039D.CDF4B46D@myplay.com>
Message-ID: <20010608133655.I435@xanadu.kublai.com>



On Friday, 08 June 2001 at 09:55, Scott Manley wrote:
> 
> > liveice is still virtually unmaintained.  it's no longer relevant with
> > ices 2 for vorbis things, if anyone wants to maintain this or has
> > patches, Scott Manley is the person to talk to.
> 
> I don't have a place to put up web pages about LiveIce et al, and with
> all the myplay stuff taking my time my maintenance has been
> non-existant.

I've got an ancient little patch against liveice for the ever-popular
%s format-string bug which helps with some segfaults, and a couple
other minor tweaks. I've posted them a couple times in the past, think
I can commit them?

But, since I'm migrating to ices from liveice this is not me
volunteering to maintain liveice :)

-Brendan

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From brendan at kublai.com  Fri Jun  8 17:40:06 2001
From: brendan at kublai.com (Brendan Cully)
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 13:40:06 -0400
Subject: [icecast] new maintainers
In-Reply-To: <B7465593.1C601%lists@lastonepicked.com>
Message-ID: <20010608134006.K435@xanadu.kublai.com>



On Friday, 08 June 2001 at 10:12, Hunter Hillegas wrote:
> What is multistreaming?

It's a new word :)

I'm just making ices be able to reencode its playlist at multiple
bitrates at the same time, so you can broadcast the same stream for
broadband and POTS users.

I've already got this working (and I've been listening to it for about
an hour and a half so far), but I'm not going to commit it until I've
inspected what my fingers have managed to code up.

-Brendan

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From scott at myplay.com  Fri Jun  8 17:16:45 2001
From: scott at myplay.com (Scott Manley)
Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 10:16:45 -0700
Subject: [icecast] new maintainers
In-Reply-To: <20010608134006.K435@xanadu.kublai.com>
Message-ID: <3B21087D.4EEA521E@myplay.com>



> It's a new word :)

But not a new feature ;-)

> I'm just making ices be able to reencode its playlist at multiple
> bitrates at the same time, so you can broadcast the same stream for
> broadband and POTS users.
> 
> I've already got this working (and I've been listening to it for about
> an hour and a half so far), but I'm not going to commit it until I've
> inspected what my fingers have managed to code up.

I hope you come up with a better configuration inteface than liveice
uses for this... nobody ever understood it


-- 
Scott Manley (AKA Szyzyg)
Streaming Media Hacker
www.myplay.com

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From jack at icecast.org  Fri Jun  8 17:44:47 2001
From: jack at icecast.org (Jack Moffitt)
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 11:44:47 -0600
Subject: [icecast] new maintainers
In-Reply-To: <3B21039D.CDF4B46D@myplay.com>
Message-ID: <20010608114447.P28120@i.cantcode.com>



> > liveice is still virtually unmaintained.  it's no longer relevant with
> > ices 2 for vorbis things, if anyone wants to maintain this or has
> > patches, Scott Manley is the person to talk to.
> 
> I don't have a place to put up web pages about LiveIce et al, and with
> all the myplay stuff taking my time my maintenance has been
> non-existant.

is http://star.arm.ac.uk/~spm/software/liveice.html deprecated?  If you
want I can check teh latest code into cvs cleanly and move the liveice
local.  Let me know.

jack.

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From jack at icecast.org  Fri Jun  8 17:46:22 2001
From: jack at icecast.org (Jack Moffitt)
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 11:46:22 -0600
Subject: [icecast] new maintainers
In-Reply-To: <20010608133655.I435@xanadu.kublai.com>
Message-ID: <20010608114622.Q28120@i.cantcode.com>



> I've got an ancient little patch against liveice for the ever-popular
> %s format-string bug which helps with some segfaults, and a couple
> other minor tweaks. I've posted them a couple times in the past, think
> I can commit them?

Liveice in cvs is very old.  Scott has his own official tarball.  Please
patch against that. :)

jack.

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From scott at myplay.com  Fri Jun  8 17:23:08 2001
From: scott at myplay.com (Scott Manley)
Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 10:23:08 -0700
Subject: [icecast] new maintainers
In-Reply-To: <20010608114447.P28120@i.cantcode.com>
Message-ID: <3B2109FC.F4EC73D4@myplay.com>



Jack Moffitt wrote:
> 
> > > liveice is still virtually unmaintained.  it's no longer relevant with
> > > ices 2 for vorbis things, if anyone wants to maintain this or has
> > > patches, Scott Manley is the person to talk to.
> >
> > I don't have a place to put up web pages about LiveIce et al, and with
> > all the myplay stuff taking my time my maintenance has been
> > non-existant.
> 
> is http://star.arm.ac.uk/~spm/software/liveice.html deprecated?  If you
> want I can check teh latest code into cvs cleanly and move the liveice
> local.  Let me know.

It's note really deprectated until I apply all the patches i've been
sent. I jsut can't update those pages any more


-- 
Scott Manley (AKA Szyzyg)
Streaming Media Hacker
www.myplay.com

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From brendan at kublai.com  Fri Jun  8 17:51:22 2001
From: brendan at kublai.com (Brendan Cully)
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 13:51:22 -0400
Subject: [icecast] new maintainers
In-Reply-To: <3B21087D.4EEA521E@myplay.com>
Message-ID: <20010608135122.M435@xanadu.kublai.com>



On Friday, 08 June 2001 at 10:16, Scott Manley wrote:
> 
> > It's a new word :)
> 
> But not a new feature ;-)

No, sorry, didn't mean to imply that it was. I've been happily using
liveice for a while to do this. I'm moving to ices because I don't
need all the live DJ stuff, ices seems to use a lot less CPU, and the
playlist management is infinitely better in ices, since that is what
it was designed around. But liveice actually works pretty well for
me, my reasons are frankly moral rather than practical :)

> > I'm just making ices be able to reencode its playlist at multiple
> > bitrates at the same time, so you can broadcast the same stream for
> > broadband and POTS users.
> > 
> > I've already got this working (and I've been listening to it for about
> > an hour and a half so far), but I'm not going to commit it until I've
> > inspected what my fingers have managed to code up.
> 
> I hope you come up with a better configuration inteface than liveice
> uses for this... nobody ever understood it

what did they not understand? It seemed pretty straightforward to me,
so I'm not likely to know how to improve it :)

Ices configuration is in xml, I've just made it that you can have
multiple <ices:Stream> sections.

-Brendan

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From wildbill at kpig.com  Fri Jun  8 17:58:57 2001
From: wildbill at kpig.com (William Goldsmith)
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 10:58:57 -0700
Subject: [icecast] new maintainers
In-Reply-To: <3B21087D.4EEA521E@myplay.com>
Message-ID: <010701c0f044$b0f766e0$6800000a@bill>



> > I'm just making ices be able to reencode its playlist at multiple
> > bitrates at the same time, so you can broadcast the same stream for
> > broadband and POTS users.
> >
> > I've already got this working (and I've been listening to it for about
> > an hour and a half so far), but I'm not going to commit it until I've
> > inspected what my fingers have managed to code up.
>
> I hope you come up with a better configuration inteface than liveice
> uses for this... nobody ever understood it
>
Hmmm... I always thought that the liveice config file format for
'multistreaming' was pretty nifty. I liked the way secondary streams
automatically inherited all shared variables from the parent stream - all
you had to define were the ones that were different. Can't think of a less
cumbersome way of doing it.


---
Bill Goldsmith
www.radioparadise.com
www.kpig.com

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From msmith at labyrinth.net.au  Fri Jun  8 18:46:24 2001
From: msmith at labyrinth.net.au (Michael Smith)
Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 04:46:24 +1000
Subject: [icecast] new maintainers
In-Reply-To: <20010608134006.K435@xanadu.kublai.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010609044624.41ee8220@mail.labyrinth.net.au>



At 01:40 PM 6/8/01 -0400, you wrote:
>On Friday, 08 June 2001 at 10:12, Hunter Hillegas wrote:
>> What is multistreaming?
>
>It's a new word :)
>
>I'm just making ices be able to reencode its playlist at multiple
>bitrates at the same time, so you can broadcast the same stream for
>broadband and POTS users.

ices2 can do this too, for those who are interested. And lots more :-)

Michael

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From orion at internexo.co.cr  Sat Jun  9 22:01:44 2001
From: orion at internexo.co.cr (Carlos Pravia)
Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 16:01:44 -0600
Subject: [icecast] Problem with streaming mp3
Message-ID: <3B229CC7.FCEAD225@internexo.co.cr>



I have a problem using icecast, when i tray to acces the server from a
windows client, it tray to download de mp3 instead to play it. What
happend ?

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From jaromil at dyne.org  Sat Jun  9 01:12:10 2001
From: jaromil at dyne.org (jaromil)
Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 00:12:10 -0100
Subject: [icecast] Re: [icecast-dev] new maintainers
In-Reply-To: <20010608110903.M28120@i.cantcode.com>
Message-ID: <20010609001210.C171@dyne.org>



On Fri, Jun 08, 2001 at 11:09:03AM -0600, Jack Moffitt wrote:
> 
> So I've been doing this myself for far too long, I'm glad to have some
> good help these days.
> 
> ices 1.x is now going to be maintained by Brendan Cully.  Brendan has
> also done most of the network/imap code in mutt, and is working on
> multistreaming in ices 1.x.  Hopefully we'll see some good stuff.
> 
> ices 2.x (the vorbis version) is coming along very nicely and is
> maintained by Michael Smith.  Michael's been hacking on vorbis for a
> long time, and I'm glad I've got him helping on icecast finally :)
> 
> liveice is still virtually unmaintained.  it's no longer relevant with
> ices 2 for vorbis things, if anyone wants to maintain this or has
> patches, Scott Manley is the person to talk to.  
> 
> 
> All other code is maintained by me.  My focus is currently on getting
> icecast 2 and the new directory code out the door.  icecast 2 will do
> mp3 and vorbis, but you'll need a separate source tool for each (ices
> 1.x or ices 2.x).  At least for now.
> 
> I'll post some of my directory stuff soon.  Progress on icecast itself
> has been slow the last few weeks since I recently moved to New Mexico
> (god, i love it here), and won't have DSL until tuesday.  

i can promise MuSE will support oggvorbis streaming, hoping to satisfy
as much people liveice does, offering realtime live input mixing on top
of 6 bitstreams. There are good probabilities that some radios in italy
invest in further development of MuSE, which paused for nearly 2 months.

my plans are to include libshout1 and 2 to let streaming with both
codecs from MuSE. i'll wait for a stable release of icecast2 to start
development, so jack i hope you'll enjoy this summer and keep up the
good work!

btw i noticed GStreamer is coming up as a reliable and robust framework,
so i guess it'll be also a great solution for vorbis streaming.

cheers


-- 
jrml ..//korova.dyne.org
6EEE 4FB2 2555 7ACD 8496  AB99 E2A2 93B4 6C62 4800

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From jack at icecast.org  Sat Jun  9 15:52:18 2001
From: jack at icecast.org (Jack Moffitt)
Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 09:52:18 -0600
Subject: [icecast] [thomas@arkena.com: [vorbis] mp3pro and the mp3 streaming license]
Message-ID: <20010609095218.G7332@i.cantcode.com>



Thomas, 

You should post this hear, as it's just as relevant ;)

Hey guys, how do you feel now that you all owe Thompson $2k per year?
Vorbis look more interesting now :)

It's really disgusting how the technology is now worth more than the
music.

jack.

----- Forwarded message from Thomas Kirk <thomas at arkena.com> -----

Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 11:58:23 +0200
From: Thomas Kirk <thomas at arkena.com>
To: vorbis at xiph.org
Subject: [vorbis] mp3pro and the mp3 streaming license

Fraunhofer and Thomson Multimedia release their new mp3pro codec
and new  licenseconditions for streaming mp3 :

http://www.techreview.com/web/kiang/kiang060701.asp

My comment is that the licensecharge isnt frighting compared
to what we broadcaster pays in musicroyalties allready. Is this
what you feared jack? :)

  


-- 
Venlig hilsen/Kind regards
Thomas Kirk
ARKENA
thomas at arkena.com
http://www.arkena.com

I'D LIKE TO BE BURIED INDIAN-STYLE, where they put you up on a high rack,
above the ground.  That way, you could get hit by meteorites and not even
feel it.
		-- Jack Handley, The New Mexican, 1988.

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From mnpicker at agt.net  Sat Jun  9 19:20:21 2001
From: mnpicker at agt.net (Murray Nelson)
Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 13:20:21 -0600
Subject: [icecast] [thomas@arkena.com: [vorbis] mp3pro and the mp3 streaming  license]
In-Reply-To: <20010609095218.G7332@i.cantcode.com>
Message-ID: <3B2276F5.5FDF1BED@agt.net>



Great Jack,. I read your article in Streaming Media Mag several months ago. I
new this was coming. Where do I start. I have been doing Shoutcast and
apparently AOL pays for the licensing but for how long. I would like to start
learning how to do icecast.
My server is FreeBSD. Where do I start?

Jack Moffitt wrote:

> Thomas,
>
> You should post this hear, as it's just as relevant ;)
>
> Hey guys, how do you feel now that you all owe Thompson $2k per year?
> Vorbis look more interesting now :)
>
> It's really disgusting how the technology is now worth more than the
> music.
>
> jack.
>
> ----- Forwarded message from Thomas Kirk <thomas at arkena.com> -----
>
> Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 11:58:23 +0200
> From: Thomas Kirk <thomas at arkena.com>
> To: vorbis at xiph.org
> Subject: [vorbis] mp3pro and the mp3 streaming license
>
> Fraunhofer and Thomson Multimedia release their new mp3pro codec
> and new  licenseconditions for streaming mp3 :
>
> http://www.techreview.com/web/kiang/kiang060701.asp
>
> My comment is that the licensecharge isnt frighting compared
> to what we broadcaster pays in musicroyalties allready. Is this
> what you feared jack? :)
>
>
>
> --
> Venlig hilsen/Kind regards
> Thomas Kirk
> ARKENA
> thomas at arkena.com
> http://www.arkena.com
>
> I'D LIKE TO BE BURIED INDIAN-STYLE, where they put you up on a high rack,
> above the ground.  That way, you could get hit by meteorites and not even
> feel it.
>                 -- Jack Handley, The New Mexican, 1988.
>
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>
> ----- End forwarded message -----
>
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--
Murray Nelson
mnpicker at agt.net ICQ # 53460269 Phone/FAX/Data (403)328-4261      (push 2 to
leave message)
#207 324 7 St South
Lethbridge Alberta Canada
T1J 2G2

Aardvark Recorders/Lost Lemon Records/Most Unusual Music (publishing)
Online AV content provider featuring AV streams of local live musicians.
http://www.localplayer.com

Guitar Instruction.
http://www.studio-lessons.com

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From asym at rfnj.org  Sat Jun  9 19:24:55 2001
From: asym at rfnj.org (Asymmetric)
Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 15:24:55 -0400
Subject: [icecast] [thomas@arkena.com: [vorbis] mp3pro and the mp3 streaming license]
In-Reply-To: <20010609095218.G7332@i.cantcode.com>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010609152124.00b3c168@rfnj.org>



At 09:52 6/9/2001 -0600, you wrote:
>Thomas,
>
>You should post this hear, as it's just as relevant ;)
>
>Hey guys, how do you feel now that you all owe Thompson $2k per year?
>Vorbis look more interesting now :)
>
>It's really disgusting how the technology is now worth more than the
>music.

It should be noted that this fee applies only if you are delivering in mp3 
format "for profit."  If you're doing it for free, you don't have to pay 
them a dime.. from the quoted URL...


----
"If MP3 is used for free distribution on the Internet, we will not charge 
royalties," he says. But "if people monetize, the inventors should have 
their fair share," he adds.
----

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm not charging anything.  As 
mentioned, the royalties to record labels still stand if you don't follow 
the rules, but this will be true regardless of the format 
(mp3/vorbis/whatever.)

-Asym

-------signature file-------
PGP Key Fingerprint:
446B 7718 B219 9F1E 43DD  8E4A 6BE9 D739 CCC5 7FD7

"I don't think [Linux] will be very successful in the long run."
"My experience and some of my friends' experience is that Linux is quite 
unreliable. Microsoft is really unreliable but Linux is worse."
-Ken Thompson, Interview May 1999.

http://www.freebsd.org
FreeBSD - The Power to Serve

http://www.rfnj.org
Radio Free New Jersey - 435 streams - 96kbps @ 44khz Stereo

http://namespace.org -- http://name.space
Resist the ICANN!  Support name.space!

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From asym at rfnj.org  Sat Jun  9 19:27:30 2001
From: asym at rfnj.org (Asymmetric)
Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 15:27:30 -0400
Subject: [icecast] mkpasswd??
In-Reply-To: <20010609095218.G7332@i.cantcode.com>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010609152459.00b3dd88@rfnj.org>



I just started setting up icecast again, after having my dsl down due to 
the northpoint virus.. this time I did the ./configure --with-crypt 
option.  According to the comments in the config file, I also need to 
compile the "included" mkpasswd.c.  Well, in the 1.3.10 tarball, there is 
no mkpasswd.c, no mkpasswd*, not even anything *pass*.. any ideas on where 
else this may be?

-------signature file-------
PGP Key Fingerprint:
446B 7718 B219 9F1E 43DD  8E4A 6BE9 D739 CCC5 7FD7

"I don't think [Linux] will be very successful in the long run."
"My experience and some of my friends' experience is that Linux is quite 
unreliable. Microsoft is really unreliable but Linux is worse."
-Ken Thompson, Interview May 1999.

http://www.freebsd.org
FreeBSD - The Power to Serve

http://www.rfnj.org
Radio Free New Jersey - 435 streams - 96kbps @ 44khz Stereo

http://namespace.org -- http://name.space
Resist the ICANN!  Support name.space!

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From jack at icecast.org  Sat Jun  9 19:28:57 2001
From: jack at icecast.org (Jack Moffitt)
Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 13:28:57 -0600
Subject: [icecast] [thomas@arkena.com: [vorbis] mp3pro and the mp3 streaming license]
In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010609152124.00b3c168@rfnj.org>
Message-ID: <20010609132857.N7332@i.cantcode.com>



> I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm not charging anything.  As 
> mentioned, the royalties to record labels still stand if you don't follow 
> the rules, but this will be true regardless of the format 
> (mp3/vorbis/whatever.)

Do you have any ads on your site?  That's probably streaming related
revenue.

Do you list on shoutcast.com?  There's definately stremaing related
revenue there.

Do you broadcast through live365?  DEFINATELY streaming related revenue.

Maybe you won't have to pay, but someone is going to eat 2% in most
cases.

jack.

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From sean at rimboy.com  Sat Jun  9 19:31:58 2001
From: sean at rimboy.com (Sean /The RIMBoy/)
Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 14:31:58 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [icecast] [thomas@arkena.com: [vorbis] mp3pro and the mp3  streaming license]
In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010609152124.00b3c168@rfnj.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0106091428200.26020-100000@waldorf.rimboy.com>



On Sat, 9 Jun 2001, Asymmetric wrote:

> It should be noted that this fee applies only if you are delivering in mp3 
> format "for profit."  If you're doing it for free, you don't have to pay 
> them a dime.. from the quoted URL...
> 
> ----
> "If MP3 is used for free distribution on the Internet, we will not charge 
> royalties," he says. But "if people monetize, the inventors should have 
> their fair share," he adds.
> ----
> 
> I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm not charging anything.

Alright, so I don't charge for the stream.  Does not the sales of
advertisement go against this statement, in particular that last line?  I
might not charge, but I charge advertisers.  Technically the stream is not
"free" then is it not?  I realize this is a fine line (splitting hairs),
but does anyone honestly think Thompson is going to let people making
money on something that is free to consumers stand?  

Sean...


-- 
A flute with no holes is not a flute.  A donut with no hole is a danish.
	--Chevy Chase, Caddyshack
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
KG4NRC
www.rimboy.com		<-- Your source for the crap you know you need.

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From sean at rimboy.com  Sat Jun  9 19:32:56 2001
From: sean at rimboy.com (Sean /The RIMBoy/)
Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 14:32:56 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [icecast] [thomas@arkena.com: [vorbis] mp3pro and the mp3 streaming license]
In-Reply-To: <20010609132857.N7332@i.cantcode.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0106091432120.26020-100000@waldorf.rimboy.com>



On Sat, 9 Jun 2001, Jack Moffitt wrote:

> Do you have any ads on your site?  That's probably streaming related
> revenue.

Agh... this came in while I was writing my response.  

> Maybe you won't have to pay, but someone is going to eat 2% in most
> cases.

Yup.

Sean...


-- 
A flute with no holes is not a flute.  A donut with no hole is a danish.
	--Chevy Chase, Caddyshack
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
KG4NRC
www.rimboy.com		<-- Your source for the crap you know you need.

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From sean at rimboy.com  Sat Jun  9 19:36:00 2001
From: sean at rimboy.com (Sean /The RIMBoy/)
Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 14:36:00 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: OGG encoder, was: Re: [icecast] [thomas@arkena.com: [vorbis] mp3pro and the mp3 streaming license]
In-Reply-To: <20010609132857.N7332@i.cantcode.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0106091433210.26020-100000@waldorf.rimboy.com>



On Sat, 9 Jun 2001, Jack Moffitt wrote:

> Maybe you won't have to pay, but someone is going to eat 2% in most
> cases.

What's the latest on Fraunhofer's veiled threats about encroaching on
their IP with the Ogg Vorbis technology?  I've not heard of anything, but
that does not mean nothing is going on.  Have they made any type of
move?  Or did they decided a lawsuit would push people away from mp3
quickly?  

Sean...


-- 
A flute with no holes is not a flute.  A donut with no hole is a danish.
	--Chevy Chase, Caddyshack
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
KG4NRC
www.rimboy.com		<-- Your source for the crap you know you need.

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From asym at rfnj.org  Sat Jun  9 19:43:33 2001
From: asym at rfnj.org (Asymmetric)
Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 15:43:33 -0400
Subject: [icecast] [thomas@arkena.com: [vorbis] mp3pro and the mp3 streaming license]
In-Reply-To: <20010609132857.N7332@i.cantcode.com>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010609153704.00b4fbd8@rfnj.org>



At 13:28 6/9/2001 -0600, you wrote:

>Do you have any ads on your site?  That's probably streaming related
>revenue.

Nope.

>Do you list on shoutcast.com?  There's definately stremaing related
>revenue there.

Yes, but the revenue is not coming to me.

>Do you broadcast through live365?  DEFINATELY streaming related revenue.

See above.

>Maybe you won't have to pay, but someone is going to eat 2% in most
>cases.

I agree with that much of it, but that doesn't seem to me like such a "bad" 
deal.  I applaud the vorbis effort, don't get me wrong, but I don't think 
it's evil for Frauhofer/IIS to charge people who want to use their 
technology if they're using it for profit.  It may be ugly and unsavory, 
but it's nothing to get terribly upset over.  I think it'd be far more 
outrageous if they did decide to charge those of us that just stream for 
free, totally out of pocket.

At the very least, it'll be interesting to see if Frauhofer sues the RIAA 
members over providing (for pay) mp3s on the internet.. and if they could 
make a case that the sales generated in stores are a direct result of the 
wide dispersal pattern of the mp3s.  I don't like to see one person suing 
another over anything, but it'd be a good laugh to watch the RIAA take it 
in the arse. ;)

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From asym at rfnj.org  Sat Jun  9 19:46:29 2001
From: asym at rfnj.org (Asymmetric)
Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 15:46:29 -0400
Subject: [icecast] [thomas@arkena.com: [vorbis] mp3pro and the mp3  streaming license]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0106091428200.26020-100000@waldorf.rimboy.co m>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010609154357.00b5dd78@rfnj.org>



At 14:31 6/9/2001 -0500, you wrote:
>On Sat, 9 Jun 2001, Asymmetric wrote:
>
> > It should be noted that this fee applies only if you are delivering in mp3
> > format "for profit."  If you're doing it for free, you don't have to pay
> > them a dime.. from the quoted URL...
> >
> > ----
> > "If MP3 is used for free distribution on the Internet, we will not charge
> > royalties," he says. But "if people monetize, the inventors should have
> > their fair share," he adds.
> > ----
> >
> > I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm not charging anything.
>
>
>Alright, so I don't charge for the stream.  Does not the sales of
>advertisement go against this statement, in particular that last line?  I
>might not charge, but I charge advertisers.  Technically the stream is not
>"free" then is it not?  I realize this is a fine line (splitting hairs),

This isn't really a fine line at all.  If after removing your streaming mp3 
content, you had no basis for charging your advertisers, then it's pretty 
clear that the streaming is the real "source" of the revenue, and not the 
advertisements.  In general, the law has shown that if you use technology X 
in your product, then it is at least in part responsible for the revenue 
generated by your product.

>but does anyone honestly think Thompson is going to let people making
>money on something that is free to consumers stand?

Probably not.. so hopefully vorbis gets it's groove on a bit quicker.

-------signature file-------
PGP Key Fingerprint:
446B 7718 B219 9F1E 43DD  8E4A 6BE9 D739 CCC5 7FD7

"I don't think [Linux] will be very successful in the long run."
"My experience and some of my friends' experience is that Linux is quite 
unreliable. Microsoft is really unreliable but Linux is worse."
-Ken Thompson, Interview May 1999.

http://www.freebsd.org
FreeBSD - The Power to Serve

http://www.rfnj.org
Radio Free New Jersey - 435 streams - 96kbps @ 44khz Stereo

http://namespace.org -- http://name.space
Resist the ICANN!  Support name.space!

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From jack at icecast.org  Sat Jun  9 19:52:43 2001
From: jack at icecast.org (Jack Moffitt)
Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 13:52:43 -0600
Subject: [icecast] [thomas@arkena.com: [vorbis] mp3pro and the mp3 streaming license]
In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010609153704.00b4fbd8@rfnj.org>
Message-ID: <20010609135243.P7332@i.cantcode.com>



> I agree with that much of it, but that doesn't seem to me like such a "bad" 
> deal.  I applaud the vorbis effort, don't get me wrong, but I don't think 
> it's evil for Frauhofer/IIS to charge people who want to use their 
> technology if they're using it for profit.  It may be ugly and unsavory, 
> but it's nothing to get terribly upset over.  I think it'd be far more 
> outrageous if they did decide to charge those of us that just stream for 
> free, totally out of pocket.

So uh, you think it's worth more for mp3, than the actual music
involved?

Come on.

You think it would be nice if Netscape charged 2% of all website
royalties for HTML, etc?

I think it's fine that fraunhofer charges money for their code, but this
is different.

They charge you for the tools they provide.

You have to pay for tool makers to pay royalties for tools Fraunhofer
DOESN'T make.

You ahve to pay to stream the content you already created with a tool
you already paid for.

How many times do you think they should get paid?  it's not like they
wrote any of the streaming media servers.  It's not like any of the
content that's encoded is theirs.  And hell, they didn't even write most
of the mp3 code people are using.

They just happened to be the first to submit a patent application, even
though most of their ideas are aren't that notable.  (See their patent
on joint stereo, which is try both ways, see which is better...  come
one, any 5 year old has that logic already mastered).

jack.

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From asym at rfnj.org  Sat Jun  9 20:23:28 2001
From: asym at rfnj.org (Asymmetric)
Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 16:23:28 -0400
Subject: [icecast] Re: mp3pro and the mp3 streaming license]
In-Reply-To: <20010609135243.P7332@i.cantcode.com>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010609160155.00b60410@rfnj.org>



At 13:52 6/9/2001 -0600, you wrote:

>So uh, you think it's worth more for mp3, than the actual music
>involved?
>
>Come on.

Hmm.. so what you're saying is that for under $2K I can get an unlimited 
distribution license from the recording industry?  To burn, distribute, 
sell and market as much of their material as I like?  Wow.  Sign me up.

>You think it would be nice if Netscape charged 2% of all website
>royalties for HTML, etc?

Netscape didn't invent HTML.

>I think it's fine that fraunhofer charges money for their code, but this
>is different.
>
>They charge you for the tools they provide.

It's called "selling software."  MS (yeah I know everyone hates them too) 
charges for licenses based on "client connections." which is very 
similar.  If you want a website, fine.. if you want it to handle X users 
simultaneously though, well then you'd better pay up for an X user license.

>You have to pay for tool makers to pay royalties for tools Fraunhofer
>DOESN'T make.

I think a lot of -commercial- products do use the frauhofer codec.. so do a 
lot of hardware manufacturers.. but that isn't the point, the payment isn't 
for tools, the payment is for a technology license.. it works the same for 
every other patent.  Rambus works in exactly the same way, although they're 
losing big time; They don't make memory, they don't make chips, they don't 
fab anything.. they are paid for a license to use a technology/patent.  If 
you think Rambus or Frauhnhofer are bad, take a look at the genetics 
companies.. patenting genes they find in people that may prove useful for 
gene therapy, so anyone else who wants to use it to say fight cancer or 
aids, has to pay them.  It's an ugly business to be sure, but there are 
some actual criminals against humanity out there.

If you don't like that, that's your choice.. but it isn't like Fraunhofer 
is doing anything new here.. everyone in the patent market does exactly the 
same thing.

>You ahve to pay to stream the content you already created with a tool
>you already paid for.
>
>How many times do you think they should get paid?  it's not like they
>wrote any of the streaming media servers.  It's not like any of the
>content that's encoded is theirs.  And hell, they didn't even write most

I don't know.  How many times should I have to pay $6 to go across a bridge 
along with the millions of other people that go over that same bridge every 
day?  That particular rate just went up from $3.50.  I guess $40 million 
(being very conservative) a day just wasn't enough to keep that bridge running!

You may pick up on a common point.  Fraunhofer isn't the first or worst at 
this game, from any angle.  If you use products free of revenue generation, 
in an application that itself is free of revenue, then you don't have to 
pay.  If some part along the flow wants to generate revenue with their 
product, then they have to pay.

Take winamp for example.  Winamp has a non-free version.  To sell that 
version, I'm sure they have to pay this new fee.  However, if you buy it 
and use it in a free environment, then you yourself don't have to 
pay.  They want to get paid each time their technology is used to generate 
income, and while that may be greedy, unless you're a subscriber to some of 
the religious doctrines out there, it is not evil.

It would be a "wonderful" world if everyone that came up with some sort of 
new technology or idea always gave it away for free, but that isn't the 
world we're in.

Pardon me for playing devils advocate, but IMHO there are a lot of better 
things to get bent about, if you want to get bent over something.

As for joint stereo patent, I agree, there are tons of stupid patents 
awarded every year.  Many of them far stupider than this one, with charges 
for usage a lot higher.

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From jack at icecast.org  Sat Jun  9 20:45:50 2001
From: jack at icecast.org (Jack Moffitt)
Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 14:45:50 -0600
Subject: [icecast] Re: mp3pro and the mp3 streaming license]
In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010609160155.00b60410@rfnj.org>
Message-ID: <20010609144550.Q7332@i.cantcode.com>



> >So uh, you think it's worth more for mp3, than the actual music
> >involved?
> >
> >Come on.
> 
> Hmm.. so what you're saying is that for under $2K I can get an unlimited 
> distribution license from the recording industry?  To burn, distribute, 
> sell and market as much of their material as I like?  Wow.  Sign me up.

Streaming music is $250 minimum, with, I believe, less than 2%
royalties.  For $500 a year you can stream all the music in the world
pretty much, prefectly legally.  If you make a profit, it's a royalty.
But MP3's royalty here is higher than the royalty for the actual music.
That is out of whack.  Especially in an age where we are diligently
search for new ways to compensate artists.

> >You think it would be nice if Netscape charged 2% of all website
> >royalties for HTML, etc?
> 
> Netscape didn't invent HTML.

Fraunhofer didn't invent parts of mp3.  Netscape certainly had their hands
in the spec.  Microsoft too.

> >I think it's fine that fraunhofer charges money for their code, but this
> >is different.
> >
> >They charge you for the tools they provide.
> 
> It's called "selling software."  

Yes, this is fine.  I don't have a problem with this.

> >You have to pay for tool makers to pay royalties for tools Fraunhofer
> >DOESN'T make.
> 
> I think a lot of -commercial- products do use the frauhofer codec.. 

Sure they do.  They pay for that code.  Then they pay extra for teh
technology patents.  Look at the licensing fees.  They double when you
use FhG's code.

LAME uses 0 FhG code, and it still has to pay.

Yes, these are normal patents, and this is how patents work.  But the
patent system is also fucked.  And the FhG patents are a good instance
of why.

> >You ahve to pay to stream the content you already created with a tool
> >you already paid for.
>
> I don't know.  How many times should I have to pay $6 to go across a bridge 
> along with the millions of other people that go over that same bridge every 
> day?  That particular rate just went up from $3.50.  I guess $40 million 
> (being very conservative) a day just wasn't enough to keep that bridge running!

This isn't analogous.  FhG here is charging for a result of the content
that you made.  It's like buying a toaster that also charges you for
every piece of toast you make.

Or, to do it the way FhG did, sell you a toaster for X dollars, and then
later charge you y dollars per slice after you bought it, because they
can.

> You may pick up on a common point.  Fraunhofer isn't the first or worst at 
> this game, from any angle.  If you use products free of revenue generation, 
> in an application that itself is free of revenue, then you don't have to 
> pay.  If some part along the flow wants to generate revenue with their 
> product, then they have to pay.

This isn't true.  Only SOME of the time do you not have to pay.  The
rest of the time you do.  For instance, encoders are _never_ free.

> Take winamp for example.  Winamp has a non-free version.  

Since when?  Winamp was always donation ware, and I bleieve now it's
just free to use.  Where's a pay for version of winamp?

> To sell that 
> version, I'm sure they have to pay this new fee.  

The fee is outrageous, even for large companies, for encoders.  For
decoders, genereally you can do it for free, or for very little,
depending on your negotiating skills, mostly because the decoder patents
are very weak.

> However, if you buy it 
> and use it in a free environment, then you yourself don't have to 
> pay.  They want to get paid each time their technology is used to generate 
> income, and while that may be greedy, unless you're a subscriber to some of 
> the religious doctrines out there, it is not evil.

That's all well and good.  I agree here.  But, what if I recorded
winamp's audio output on tapes.  Do I owe them a royalty if I play the
tape for someone else?

This isn't a question of fraunhofer charging money for something they
should be.  They are charging you money to send bits from poitn a to
poitn b, if those bits are in a certain pattern.  There's no decoding or
encoding going on here.  Just data transfer.

> It would be a "wonderful" world if everyone that came up with some sort of 
> new technology or idea always gave it away for free, but that isn't the 
> world we're in.

We're in a world were intellectual property law has gotten out of hand.
Copyrights no longer seem to expire, patents are overly general and
broud, and litigation is increasing.  Huge companies are getting bigger,
exerting more influence over government and our daily lives, etc.

The current state of affairs is probably not was what was envisioned
when the provisions for copyright and patent law were written into the
constitution.

> Pardon me for playing devils advocate, but IMHO there are a lot of better 
> things to get bent about, if you want to get bent over something.

Devil's advocate is fine.  I think intellectual proper in media is a
perfectly legimate thing to get bent on, and by no means am I only bent
on this one instance of Fraunhofer's greed.  I'm bent on it all.

I tell you, it's quite depressing.

jack.

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From asym at rfnj.org  Sat Jun  9 21:52:52 2001
From: asym at rfnj.org (Asymmetric)
Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 17:52:52 -0400
Subject: [icecast] Re: mp3pro and the mp3 streaming license]
In-Reply-To: <20010609144550.Q7332@i.cantcode.com>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010609165848.00b54730@rfnj.org>



At 14:45 6/9/2001 -0600, you wrote:

>Streaming music is $250 minimum, with, I believe, less than 2%
>royalties.  For $500 a year you can stream all the music in the world
>pretty much, prefectly legally.  If you make a profit, it's a royalty.
>But MP3's royalty here is higher than the royalty for the actual music.
>That is out of whack.  Especially in an age where we are diligently
>search for new ways to compensate artists.

According to the RIAA, their (SoundExchange) suggested flat rate is $0.004 
per performance.. which is hardly a flat rate at all, unless you look at 
how they currently negotiate rates.  A performance being defined as the 
number of clients that listen to a given title on a stream.  If you're 
streaming music with copyright owned by RIAA members on Live365 say, and 
that stream is full, that is 365 performances per song.. or $1.46.  With a 
quick rough estimate, I have about 1000 mp3s in my master playlist which 
spans about 60 or 70 hours, so I'll call it 70 hours for 1000 
performances.  That's ~125,000 performances a year, which equates to about 
$180,000.

Significantly higher than the Frauhofer license, unless you generate 
$9Mil/yr or more in revenue from your stream.

>Fraunhofer didn't invent parts of mp3.  Netscape certainly had their hands
>in the spec.  Microsoft too.

MS had their hands in it yes, NS maybe, but they're not currently a W3C 
member.  A full list of members is available at 
http://www.w3.org/Consortium/Member/List

All the W3C 'specs' are released in an RFC style, free to all.. not NS nor 
MS nor anyone else can charge for implementation of recommendations made by 
the W3C.

Anyway, this is beside the point you were trying to make, which I do grok.. 
just picking nits for no reason here I guess.

I think something that is overlooked is that Fraunhofer didn't just pull 
this out of their ass, they are designated by the MPEG as the people to 
contact for licensing of Layer 3 audio technology for MPEG-1 and 
MPEG-2.  I'm going to step out on a limb here and assume that if any of the 
other members of the MPEG had a hand in the development of it (mp3) and 
wanted compensation/royalties, that those royalties would be distributed to 
other MPEG members by Fraunhofer.  If that is the case, then it's pretty 
obvious to me what could make the costs as high as they are; every MPEG 
member wanting their "fair share."

>Sure they do.  They pay for that code.  Then they pay extra for teh
>technology patents.  Look at the licensing fees.  They double when you
>use FhG's code.

I think this would support what I just stated above, if the royalties 
without the FhG code are distributed among MPEG members (or at least 
members who helped develop it) and the additional costs go to FhG alone.

>LAME uses 0 FhG code, and it still has to pay.
>
>Yes, these are normal patents, and this is how patents work.  But the
>patent system is also fucked.  And the FhG patents are a good instance
>of why.

I agree with this, I just don't think they're even close to the most 
fucked.  I saw some report on television a month or two ago about some 
people that while participating in a, for lack of a better term, medical 
experiment.  The people basically just had a bunch of tests done and left, 
maybe they were paid, I can't recall.  The result of this testing was that 
it turned out two of these people were totally immune/resistant to 
HIV.  Time and again, HIV was introduced into their blood, and it failed to 
infect it.  Now, if you want to examine this data or use the test that 
determined they were immune, you must pay outrageous fees to the company 
that did the tests.  Even if you contacted the two people and tested them 
yourself, you would be bound by law not to use that data without paying the 
licensing.  This is the hight of greed and criminal behavior when it comes 
to patent law, IMHO.  We could have some real work being done in the field 
of AIDS research, and a possible cure just around the corner, if it weren't 
for these jerks, and the lesser jerks that aren't interested in paying the 
fees.

>This isn't analogous.  FhG here is charging for a result of the content
>that you made.  It's like buying a toaster that also charges you for
>every piece of toast you make.
>
>Or, to do it the way FhG did, sell you a toaster for X dollars, and then
>later charge you y dollars per slice after you bought it, because they
>can.

I agree, it's not very cool at all in principle.  I just think that in this 
case, the principle put into practice is not nearly as upsetting or 
restrictive as it could have been.  If FhG wanted to, they could charge 
half a billion dollars to license their technology.  I don't think this 
applies however to the non FhG code, I'm going by gut instinct here, but I 
believe the MPEG sets those rates.

>This isn't true.  Only SOME of the time do you not have to pay.  The
>rest of the time you do.  For instance, encoders are _never_ free.

I meant you in a more specific sense, once for each case.  If "you" are 
writing a codec, or creating one in hardware, then yes you have to pay.. 
either just once, or per unit.  LAME doesn't have to pay $X every time mp3 
encoded data hits the internet that was encoded with it.  If FhG wrapped 
things up in a more convienient one-time fee for the developer of an 
"original work" (read: doesn't charge end users that use tools, only the 
tool makers) but charged them much more than they do, would that be acceptable?

I just don't think it's all that "wrong" for them to charge everyone who 
takes part in the chain, so long as they don't charge them too much 
(subjective I know).

>Since when?  Winamp was always donation ware, and I bleieve now it's
>just free to use.  Where's a pay for version of winamp?

Hmm looking now all the versions are free, but I thought there was a non 
free version at some point in the past.  Perhaps I was thinking about the 
various versions of real player and "winamp" spewed forth from my hands 
instead.

>That's all well and good.  I agree here.  But, what if I recorded
>winamp's audio output on tapes.  Do I owe them a royalty if I play the
>tape for someone else?
>
>This isn't a question of fraunhofer charging money for something they
>should be.  They are charging you money to send bits from poitn a to
>poitn b, if those bits are in a certain pattern.  There's no decoding or
>encoding going on here.  Just data transfer.

This paragraph answered your own question above.  If you're playing it on 
audio tape, it's no longer in the "bit pattern" of mp3. ;)  But anyway, 
they're not charging you to send a bit pattern from point a to point 
b.  They're charging point a and point b both for encoding or decoding that 
bit pattern.  You can send mp3 data around all day long with a new product 
you write, charge a million dollars a copy, and not pay FhG one red cent if 
your program doesn't encode or decode the data.

If it were otherwise, all the ftp, http, email etc software companies would 
be paying as well.. right along with cisco for making an "mp3 transfer 
utility" called a router, and belkin for making another one called a "cable."

>We're in a world were intellectual property law has gotten out of hand.
>Copyrights no longer seem to expire, patents are overly general and
>broud, and litigation is increasing.  Huge companies are getting bigger,
>exerting more influence over government and our daily lives, etc.
>
>The current state of affairs is probably not was what was envisioned
>when the provisions for copyright and patent law were written into the
>constitution.

I agree with all this.. but the politicians and judges are to blame, not 
the companies (which are just people, or run by them) who are trying to 
pull something shady.  Everyone at some time or another tries to pull a 
fast one.. if they try to pull a fast one in court, well, we're supposed to 
have people that can see through that.  In any instance where the "wrong 
thing" gets passed into law, only the lawmakers are to blame.. whether they 
were bribed, extorted, or just plain too dumb to see the forest for the trees.

>Devil's advocate is fine.  I think intellectual proper in media is a
>perfectly legimate thing to get bent on, and by no means am I only bent
>on this one instance of Fraunhofer's greed.  I'm bent on it all.
>
>I tell you, it's quite depressing.

Some things more than other, as the example in the genetics field 
illuminates.  Profiteering at the expense of music is one thing, doing it 
at the expense of all of humanity is quite another.

-asym

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From jack at icecast.org  Sat Jun  9 22:30:33 2001
From: jack at icecast.org (Jack Moffitt)
Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 16:30:33 -0600
Subject: [icecast] Re: mp3pro and the mp3 streaming license]
In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010609165848.00b54730@rfnj.org>
Message-ID: <20010609163033.S7332@i.cantcode.com>



> performances.  That's ~125,000 performances a year, which equates to about 
> $180,000.
> 
> Significantly higher than the Frauhofer license, unless you generate 
> $9Mil/yr or more in revenue from your stream.

The rates are in arbitration, and I doubt they will come out anywhere
near that amount.  It just isn't feasible, even for large companies.
Reember, tradidional radio doesn't have to pay these, even if they are
broadcasting online.  Nor are they subject to the compulsory license.

There's still a possibility that the DMCA will be dismantled before the
arbitration is even finished.  You shouldn't have to pay the RIAA
anyway, and the fact that they are even involved is astrocious.  

> All the W3C 'specs' are released in an RFC style, free to all.. not NS nor 
> MS nor anyone else can charge for implementation of recommendations made by 
> the W3C.

Exactly.  All standards should be done thsi way.  Including audio.
That's what we're here for.

> I think something that is overlooked is that Fraunhofer didn't just pull 
> this out of their ass, they are designated by the MPEG as the people to 
> contact for licensing of Layer 3 audio technology for MPEG-1 and 
> MPEG-2.  I'm going to step out on a limb here and assume that if any of the 
> other members of the MPEG had a hand in the development of it (mp3) and 
> wanted compensation/royalties, that those royalties would be distributed to 
> other MPEG members by Fraunhofer.  If that is the case, then it's pretty 
> obvious to me what could make the costs as high as they are; every MPEG 
> member wanting their "fair share."

Fraunhofer has 12 patents by my count, that represent the sole
intellectual property on the MP3 format.  They are all licensed by
Thompson.

If you build something that is MPEG, you can license the patents from
MEPG i believe, and MPEG's charter states that these will be fair and
reasonable.  But time and practice have shown us that they are anything
but.  And it's only worse with MPEG4, especially since the patent pools
aren't even done yet, resulting in a similar situation to the lack of a
compulsory interactive music license.

> >Sure they do.  They pay for that code.  Then they pay extra for teh
> >technology patents.  Look at the licensing fees.  They double when you
> >use FhG's code.
> 
> I think this would support what I just stated above, if the royalties 
> without the FhG code are distributed among MPEG members (or at least 
> members who helped develop it) and the additional costs go to FhG alone.

They definately do this as a Patent license + Code license.  While there
may be other people with intellectual property claims on MP3, afaik,
Thompson is the only one getting paid.   I'm pretty sure MPEG is charged
with distributing money, but if you pay thompson directly, thompson (and
fraunhofer) keeps the money.

> I agree, it's not very cool at all in principle.  I just think that in this 
> case, the principle put into practice is not nearly as upsetting or 
> restrictive as it could have been.  

You make it sound as if this is a done deal?  Remember, these royalties
didn't exist yesterday :)  Who knows what the future brings, or whether
the rates will go higher.

I would also claim that Thompson can't get away with as much murder
these days, because of Vorbis.  They know that if the rates are super
super high, people will move to vorbis, if only for financial reasons.

I will also claim that this will happen anyway.  There's no advantage to
MP3, and it's expensive.  Vorbis wins.

> If FhG wanted to, they could charge 
> half a billion dollars to license their technology.  I don't think this 
> applies however to the non FhG code, I'm going by gut instinct here, but I 
> believe the MPEG sets those rates.

MPEG sets rates on MPEG.  Thompson sets rates on mp3 if you deal
directly with thompson.  I imagine that's MPEG rates would be higher, or
else, no one would bother talking to Thompson directly. It's not as if
they are easy to communicate with.

> This paragraph answered your own question above.  If you're playing it on 
> audio tape, it's no longer in the "bit pattern" of mp3. ;)  

That example was a more general one.  Since do people pay for derivative
works?  I can't think of any example of this off the top of my head.
Usually when you buy something, the stuff you create with it is free.
Compilers are another good example.  You pay Microsoft for Visual C++,
but you don't pay them royalties on programs you create.

> But anyway, 
> they're not charging you to send a bit pattern from point a to point 
> b.  They're charging point a and point b both for encoding or decoding that 
> bit pattern.  

Oh really?  So since icecast does niether encoding nor decoding, why is
a person using icecast getting charged?  See my point here?

> You can send mp3 data around all day long with a new product 
> you write, charge a million dollars a copy, and not pay FhG one red cent if 
> your program doesn't encode or decode the data.

Not true.  The streaming royalties are on transmission.  streaming has
nothing to do with encoding or decoding.

I don't see were streaming royalties can be applied to any intellectual
property that Thompson or Fhg owns.  There's no decoding.  There's no
encoding.  I'm taking files, spitting them out over the network, and who
cares what happens.  Now I have to pay for that?

> If it were otherwise, all the ftp, http, email etc software companies would 
> be paying as well.. right along with cisco for making an "mp3 transfer 
> utility" called a router, and belkin for making another one called a "cable."

You don't think Fraunhofer will try this? :)  Live365 pays ASCAP, BMI,
and is signed up for the compulsory RIAA license.  Even though you'd
think they wouldnt' have to.  I guess they do it on behalf of their
users.  I think shoutcast pays this as well.

Recordable CDs are taxed.  People are proposing media taxes on general
computers, because they can play mp3s which could be pirated.

Don't underestimate the lengths to which these corporations will go.

> I agree with all this.. but the politicians and judges are to blame, not 
> the companies (which are just people, or run by them) who are trying to 
> pull something shady.  

But these corporations are also putting money into the hands of the
judges and the politicians.  Campaign finance is a huge issue, and to
ignore it and say the politicians are atonomous is downright ignorant.
Corporations do exert political influence, otherwise, why do you think
that the MEGA HUGE computer industry is beholden to the lousy $50b a
year music industry?  It doesn't make sense.  The media industries have
far better lobbying and influence than any of the new tech industries.
And it shows, because we are losing on every front, because we didn't
help make any of hte laws we are being prosecuted and sued under.  Where
were companies like napster when the DMCA was enacted?  There was barely
time for DiMA to get organized to at least participate in those days.

> Everyone at some time or another tries to pull a 
> fast one.. if they try to pull a fast one in court, well, we're supposed to 
> have people that can see through that.  In any instance where the "wrong 
> thing" gets passed into law, only the lawmakers are to blame.. whether they 
> were bribed, extorted, or just plain too dumb to see the forest for the trees.

Or rather, the people who elected them are to blame.  But since we're
given only a few choices, and the rest can't afford to stand out without
selling out, you can't really blame the people either can you?  The
system is as fault.  It's been corrupted by greed and coporate interest.

> Some things more than other, as the example in the genetics field 
> illuminates.  Profiteering at the expense of music is one thing, doing it 
> at the expense of all of humanity is quite another.

We all have to pick the battles we're passionate about and that we're
willing to fight for, because we can't fight for them all :)

I agree that there are far nastier things afoot, but I think personally
I can make the most difference in this one.  It may not save lives, but
I think it will make the world a better place.

jack.

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From kirk at braille.uwo.ca  Sat Jun  9 22:41:27 2001
From: kirk at braille.uwo.ca (Kirk Reiser)
Date: 09 Jun 2001 18:41:27 -0400
Subject: [icecast] multiple ices streams and misc other stuff?
In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010609152459.00b3dd88@rfnj.org>
Message-ID: <x7n17hff8o.fsf@speech.braille.uwo.ca>



Hi all:  I was just wondering when the multiple streams stuff might be
checked in to cvs.  I remember the gentleman working on it saying he
basically had it running?  The reason I'm asking is that I have
received a number of requests to stream my mp3 stream at various
bitrates.  I kind of think running three ices streamers is silly if
multiple streams will be available in the near future.

Another question is the ices2.x cvs the same as for ices1.x and if so
what is the module name?

Will ices2.x be able to reencode either ogg or mp3 files?  It would be
nice if I could start mixing vorbis material in with my mp3 without
having to start all over.

And one other point, which isn't a question at all, I believe Jack or
someone mentioned that ices didn't work with the current lame 3.89.  I
have successfully compiled ices with the current lame cvs.  All that
need be done is either change the #include <lame.h> in reencode.c to
#include <lame/lame.h> or make a symlink in /usr/include to point to
the lame.h in the lame subdirectory.

Anyway, thanx to anyone that takes the time to answer my above
questions.

  Kirk


-- 

Kirk Reiser				The Computer Braille Facility
e-mail: kirk at braille.uwo.ca		University of Western Ontario
phone: (519) 661-3061

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From pozar at lns.com  Sat Jun  9 23:11:59 2001
From: pozar at lns.com (Tim Pozar)
Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 16:11:59 -0700
Subject: [icecast] Re: mp3pro and the mp3 streaming license]
In-Reply-To: <20010609163033.S7332@i.cantcode.com>
Message-ID: <20010609161159.D64789@lns.com>



On Sat, Jun 09, 2001 at 04:30:33PM -0600, Jack Moffitt wrote:
> > performances.  That's ~125,000 performances a year, which equates to about 
> > $180,000.
> > 
> > Significantly higher than the Frauhofer license, unless you generate 
> > $9Mil/yr or more in revenue from your stream.
>
> The rates are in arbitration, and I doubt they will come out anywhere
> near that amount.  It just isn't feasible, even for large companies.
> Reember, tradidional radio doesn't have to pay these, even if they are
> broadcasting online.  Nor are they subject to the compulsory license.

Actually we (KFCF) have been informed that this is not the case
and we do have to start to negotiate or pay.  This is what came
from a lawyer we consulted with as what we must do with the content
to comply...

Tim

Pssss... Hey, Wild Bill!  Any thoughts on this?


--
	To comply with the statutory license the following conditions
	must be met:

	In a 3 hour period webcasters may not play no more than
	three songs from an album including no more than 2
	consecutively; or; four songs by a particular artist or
	from a boxed set, including no more than three consecutively.

	Archived programs may not be less than 5 hours in length,
	and may only be retained for two weeks. Merely changing a
	few songs or temporarily removing a program and putting it
	back on, does not meet this condition.

	Looped or continuous programs may not be less than three
	hours in length.

	Advance program schedule or prior announcement of Song
	titles may no be announced in advance by text, video or
	audio. It is permissible to announce the title of a song
	immediately prior to it being performed.
	
	Programs may only be repeated:
	         3 times in a two week period (if under one hour)
	         4 times in a two week period (if  over one hour)
	
	When performing a sound recording, the recording, the album
	and featured artist must be displayed in textual data during
	the performance.

	No ties-ins suggesting a product endorsement.

	Copying by recipients must be disabled if the technology
	allows.

	Must accommodate measures  by copyright owners to identify
	or protect works.

	Cooperate with copyright owners to defeat scanning.

	Transmission made from bootlegs, illegal copies or pre-release
	recordings is not covered by the statutory license.

	Automatic switching of channels is prohibited.

	Transmission of copyright management information is required
	if technically feasible.

	Royalty rates for the statutory license have not been set
	and will be retroactive after determined by the US Copyright
	Office.

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From mark at knm.org  Sun Jun 10 02:22:03 2001
From: mark at knm.org (Mark Lehrer)
Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 20:22:03 -0600
Subject: [icecast] [thomas@arkena.com: [vorbis] mp3pro and the mp3 streaming license]
In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010609152124.00b3c168@rfnj.org>
Message-ID: <200106100222.UAA03808@home.knm.org>



   >You should post this hear, as it's just as relevant ;)
   >
   >Hey guys, how do you feel now that you all owe Thompson $2k per year?
   >Vorbis look more interesting now :)
   >
   >It's really disgusting how the technology is now worth more than the
   >music.

   It should be noted that this fee applies only if you are delivering in mp3 
   format "for profit."  If you're doing it for free, you don't have to pay 
   them a dime.. from the quoted URL...

I thought the minimum was $2,000.

If you are streaming "for fun" instead of for profit, will the RIAA
give you a hard time (assuming you don't allow selectable songs, or
more than 3 from the same CD per hour), or is that free too?

Mark

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From msmith at labyrinth.net.au  Sun Jun 10 03:18:05 2001
From: msmith at labyrinth.net.au (Michael Smith)
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 13:18:05 +1000
Subject: [icecast] multiple ices streams and misc other stuff?
In-Reply-To: <x7n17hff8o.fsf@speech.braille.uwo.ca>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010610131805.41b6fc70@mail.labyrinth.net.au>



>Another question is the ices2.x cvs the same as for ices1.x and if so
>what is the module name?

ices2 is in the icecast bitkeeper repository, module 'ices'. 

>
>Will ices2.x be able to reencode either ogg or mp3 files?  It would be
>nice if I could start mixing vorbis material in with my mp3 without
>having to start all over.

ices2 can do reencoding of vorbis, and live encoding of pcm input.

Michael

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From k_myers at kyxpyx.com  Sun Jun 10 03:35:09 2001
From: k_myers at kyxpyx.com (k_myers at kyxpyx.com)
Date: 9 Jun 2001 20:35:09 -0700
Subject: OGG encoder, was: Re: [icecast] [thomas@arkena.com: [vorbis] mp3pro  and the mp3 streaming license]
In-Reply-To: <OGG encoder, was: Re: [icecast] [thomas@arkena.com: [vorbis] mp3pro  and the mp3 streaming license]>
Message-ID: <20010610033509.20921.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net>



Red alert people.

When ogg starts to make money for someone (whoever if anyone at all,) then the boys in the legal team at Fraunhofer will throw something at it in the form of "hey, you are stepping on our IP" and then sue. Until then, what is the point. So....

Until then, this argument is pointless.

Lithium

On Sat, 09 June 2001, Sean /The RIMBoy/ wrote:

> 
> On Sat, 9 Jun 2001, Jack Moffitt wrote:
> 
> > Maybe you won't have to pay, but someone is going to eat 2% in most
> > cases.
> 
> What's the latest on Fraunhofer's veiled threats about encroaching on
> their IP with the Ogg Vorbis technology?  I've not heard of anything, but
> that does not mean nothing is going on.  Have they made any type of
> move?  Or did they decided a lawsuit would push people away from mp3
> quickly?  
> 
> Sean...
> 
> -- 
> A flute with no holes is not a flute.  A donut with no hole is a danish.
>     --Chevy Chase, Caddyshack
> _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
> KG4NRC
> www.rimboy.com        <-- Your source for the crap you know you need.
> 
> 
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From brendan at kublai.com  Sun Jun 10 03:46:34 2001
From: brendan at kublai.com (Brendan Cully)
Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 23:46:34 -0400
Subject: [icecast] multiple ices streams and misc other stuff?
In-Reply-To: <x7n17hff8o.fsf@speech.braille.uwo.ca>
Message-ID: <20010609234634.B1942@xanadu.kublai.com>



On Saturday, 09 June 2001 at 18:41, Kirk Reiser wrote:
> Hi all:  I was just wondering when the multiple streams stuff might be
> checked in to cvs.  I remember the gentleman working on it saying he
> basically had it running?  The reason I'm asking is that I have
> received a number of requests to stream my mp3 stream at various
> bitrates.  I kind of think running three ices streamers is silly if
> multiple streams will be available in the near future.
[snip]
> And one other point, which isn't a question at all, I believe Jack or
> someone mentioned that ices didn't work with the current lame 3.89.  I
> have successfully compiled ices with the current lame cvs.  All that
> need be done is either change the #include <lame.h> in reencode.c to
> #include <lame/lame.h> or make a symlink in /usr/include to point to
> the lame.h in the lame subdirectory.

Well, it didn't work until yesterday, when I checked in a new
version. As a matter of fact it only works with extremely current lame
CVS, some things in lame were just fixed which would cause the current
code to crash in versions older than June 7.

I'll see about getting autoconf to find lame/lame.h, but you
should also just be able to say --with-lame-includes=/usr/include/lame

I have the multiple streams ready and can send you a diff against CVS
probably tomorrow (have to remerge it with the changes I've made to
the official CVS). I will merge it into CVS probably early next week,
I just want to do some more fixes to the main branch so that it
compiles well (and probably add support for the last released version
of lame). I want to tag it in a healthy state before checking in my
possibly destabilising multiple stream stuff.

-Brendan

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From asym at rfnj.org  Sun Jun 10 06:00:07 2001
From: asym at rfnj.org (Asymmetric)
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 02:00:07 -0400
Subject: [icecast] Re: mp3pro and the mp3 streaming license]
In-Reply-To: <20010609163033.S7332@i.cantcode.com>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010609191322.00b601c8@rfnj.org>



At 16:30 6/9/2001 -0600, you wrote:

>broadcasting online.  Nor are they subject to the compulsory license.

Right.. it would be nice to see online broadcasters treated the same way.

>There's still a possibility that the DMCA will be dismantled before the
>arbitration is even finished.  You shouldn't have to pay the RIAA
>anyway, and the fact that they are even involved is astrocious.

I think having the DMCA repealed would be too much to hope for, but one can 
dream right.. :)  I agree that they shouldn't have been involved in this at 
all, but Napster was bound to attract their attention to what was going on 
online.. I think they were pretty clueless before that, and now they see an 
untapped potential revenue stream.

Anyone can say what they want about Napster and the other services of that 
nature, in regard to how the RIAA hasn't lost any money, how it doesn't go 
to the Artist anyway, etc.. but IMHO the truth of the matter was that 90% 
of the users or more were using it just to avoid buying albums and nothing 
else.. breaking the law, attracting attention to themselves, and in so 
doing, to the rest of us.

>Exactly.  All standards should be done thsi way.  Including audio.
>That's what we're here for.

And I'm honestly excited about all of the Ogg stuff.. I really hope to see 
winamp support for it as a built-in, but if that doesn't happen, there are 
always plugins.  I only want to see that because I'm sure everyone agrees.. 
the vast majority of clients that connect are winamp.

>Fraunhofer has 12 patents by my count, that represent the sole
>intellectual property on the MP3 format.  They are all licensed by
>Thompson.
>
>If you build something that is MPEG, you can license the patents from
>MEPG i believe, and MPEG's charter states that these will be fair and
>reasonable.  But time and practice have shown us that they are anything
>but.  And it's only worse with MPEG4, especially since the patent pools
>aren't even done yet, resulting in a similar situation to the lack of a
>compulsory interactive music license.

It's a crummy situation all around using their stuff.. but somehow, some 
people seem to make it work, even if they are just the giants like the 
hardware manufacturers that want to sell DVD players.

>They definately do this as a Patent license + Code license.  While there
>may be other people with intellectual property claims on MP3, afaik,
>Thompson is the only one getting paid.   I'm pretty sure MPEG is charged
>with distributing money, but if you pay thompson directly, thompson (and
>fraunhofer) keeps the money.

Huh.. I wouldn't have guessed that, but it could be true.  What is MPEG 
going to do, go after Thompson?

>You make it sound as if this is a done deal?  Remember, these royalties
>didn't exist yesterday :)  Who knows what the future brings, or whether
>the rates will go higher.

Well "for now" it's a done deal.. yeah the licensing could evolve into 
something alot uglier.. I just hope you guys are a ways past beta when that 
happens so I never have to look at mp3s again.  Honestly I pretty much hate 
them myself, and can't stand listening to them if I have a choice.. I'm 
just forced to so I can monitor my stream. :)  Other people don't seem to 
have as discerning tastes, or they just have crummy PC sound setups I guess.

>I would also claim that Thompson can't get away with as much murder
>these days, because of Vorbis.  They know that if the rates are super
>super high, people will move to vorbis, if only for financial reasons.

I'm not sure if they're afraid, or even know.. best from a "war" standpoint 
to both assume that they've never heard of it from a fear standpoint, while 
at the same time assuming they've already come up with a strategy for 
dealing with it.. never take anything for granted in a war.

>I will also claim that this will happen anyway.  There's no advantage to
>MP3, and it's expensive.  Vorbis wins.

If the consumer mind were that simple.. FreeBSD would've long ago replaced 
windows and the linux-based oses a long time ago.. there is a lot to be 
said for entrenchment and peoples desire to not 'relearn' things they're 
already familiar with.

>works?  I can't think of any example of this off the top of my head.
>Usually when you buy something, the stuff you create with it is free.
>Compilers are another good example.  You pay Microsoft for Visual C++,
>but you don't pay them royalties on programs you create.

Sometimes yeah.. I can think of some examples in the realm not of the 
actual development environment, but of using tools or third party 
components that compile into your executable.  There are some out there 
that charge on a "sliding scale," although they are not as numerous as the 
pay-once style.

>Oh really?  So since icecast does niether encoding nor decoding, why is
>a person using icecast getting charged?  See my point here?

icecast is getting charged?  I think the person using it is getting 
charged, usually they are the same person.  If you just set up a repeater 
on port 8000 that allowed an authorized user to connect and just send raw 
data, and then others to connect and have that data copied to them.. could 
they charge you?  I don't think they could, especially if you didn't 
directly present the data.  If they could.. could they start charging 
anonymous ftp sites because they -could- be a transport for mp3?  What 
about the admins of any random http server?  Maybe they could start 
charging the people that create INN as well.

>Not true.  The streaming royalties are on transmission.  streaming has
>nothing to do with encoding or decoding.

What is streaming except sending data that is used as it is received, 
instead of waiting for a completed transmission?

>I don't see were streaming royalties can be applied to any intellectual
>property that Thompson or Fhg owns.  There's no decoding.  There's no
>encoding.  I'm taking files, spitting them out over the network, and who
>cares what happens.  Now I have to pay for that?

That's what I'm saying.. I don't think it would hold water in court.

>You don't think Fraunhofer will try this? :)  Live365 pays ASCAP, BMI,
>and is signed up for the compulsory RIAA license.  Even though you'd
>think they wouldnt' have to.  I guess they do it on behalf of their
>users.  I think shoutcast pays this as well.

FhG might try it.. until they butt heads with someone with the resources to 
say "ok, enough of this nonsense out of you."  In one sense this is why 
it's good to have a few large corporations around (like Microsoft) that 
don't compete directly or indirectly.. I doubt Mr. Gates would take any 
crap from Fraunhofer saying "Hey, you know that nifty IIS thing?  You 
better start paying us, because people could copy MP3s with it."  I don't 
think it would work with the Apache people either, or Sun, or Cisco.

>Recordable CDs are taxed.  People are proposing media taxes on general
>computers, because they can play mp3s which could be pirated.
>
>Don't underestimate the lengths to which these corporations will go.

I don't.. I'm just somewhat comforted by there being other big corporations 
who will eventually fight them, by choice or by force.  I've heard the only 
reason the CD-R drives have escaped this so far is because they can be used 
(and their primary market target is) for normal data archival.. they are 
mostly not designed or marketed as "mp3 burners."

>But these corporations are also putting money into the hands of the
>judges and the politicians.  Campaign finance is a huge issue, and to
>ignore it and say the politicians are atonomous is downright ignorant.

No I don't agree with this.  They are autonomous, but they are also human, 
and as many of them are as corruptable as in the general public.

The simple fact is they and they alone have the power and the charter to 
stop this sort of abuse.  If they don't, then they and they alone hold 
responsibility for it happening.

>Corporations do exert political influence, otherwise, why do you think
>that the MEGA HUGE computer industry is beholden to the lousy $50b a
>year music industry?  It doesn't make sense.  The media industries have
>far better lobbying and influence than any of the new tech industries.
>And it shows, because we are losing on every front, because we didn't
>help make any of hte laws we are being prosecuted and sued under.  Where
>were companies like napster when the DMCA was enacted?  There was barely
>time for DiMA to get organized to at least participate in those days.

I'd rather not discuss Napster in great detail.. they basically drew a huge 
bullseye on their chest and then taunted the music industry.  "I dare you 
to try anything.  You can't stop us.  We're going to keep doing this for as 
long as we like, and since we ourselves don't do anything illegal, you 
can't stop it."  It's one thing with believing that and being prepared to 
actually defend it; It's quite another to yell at the top of your lungs and 
then not have a plan besides "we have faith that our voice, no matter how 
small or underfunded, will be heard."

I will say something is really whacked with the DMCA though in the DeCSS 
case..  There is a clause in the DMCA that gives expressed -permission- to 
reverse engineer and then reinvent software if the purpose is to provide 
support for some media or device on a platform that currently lacks that 
support.  I don't see how, having demonstrated that clause, the MPAA has a 
foot to stand on vs. DeCSS at large.. yet they seem to wrap enough 
doublespeak and buzzwords and money around their lawsuits to actually get 
them to trial.

>Or rather, the people who elected them are to blame.  But since we're
>given only a few choices, and the rest can't afford to stand out without
>selling out, you can't really blame the people either can you?  The
>system is as fault.  It's been corrupted by greed and coporate interest.

Perhaps that is true.. but then, that still goes back to the people in 
power.  Perhaps they just lacked foresight when the first whittles were 
taken, and said "yes mister corporation, this sounds reasonable."  Perhaps 
there was a back alley deal where BigCorp said "listen mister senator, help 
us out here or we're moving our shops and jobs to the next state over that 
has promised to help."

I think the bottom line is that the humans are flawed creatures.. there 
isn't a system around that is going to make up for the flaws in those that 
designed it, or those that desire to exploit it.  So what's left?  Educate 
the people, try and raise a higher percentage of decent ones, and hope that 
in a few generations, we'll have weeded out all the corrupt crooks that 
currently run things.:)

>We all have to pick the battles we're passionate about and that we're
>willing to fight for, because we can't fight for them all :)
>
>I agree that there are far nastier things afoot, but I think personally
>I can make the most difference in this one.  It may not save lives, but
>I think it will make the world a better place.

I can respect that much at least, and I'm appreciative for what you guys 
are doing over there.. if for no other reason than I'd like to have gotten 
out from underfoot of FhG before they come smashing down on me.. getting 
out of the way or the RIAA on the other hand is going to be a bigger 
problem.. but I'll face that battle when it comes, and just maybe i'll have 
made a couple million I can use to defend myself with. ;)

Take it easy.. this discussion has been pretty interesting so far.

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From jack at icecast.org  Sun Jun 10 06:27:31 2001
From: jack at icecast.org (Jack Moffitt)
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 00:27:31 -0600
Subject: [icecast] Re: mp3pro and the mp3 streaming license]
In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010609191322.00b601c8@rfnj.org>
Message-ID: <20010610002731.T7332@i.cantcode.com>



> >There's still a possibility that the DMCA will be dismantled before the
> >arbitration is even finished.  You shouldn't have to pay the RIAA
> >anyway, and the fact that they are even involved is astrocious.
> 
> I think having the DMCA repealed would be too much to hope for, but one can 
> dream right.. :)  

At the very least section 1201's days are numbered.  That's the
anti-circumvention section.  The most evil.

> And I'm honestly excited about all of the Ogg stuff.. I really hope to see 
> winamp support for it as a built-in, but if that doesn't happen, there are 
> always plugins.  I only want to see that because I'm sure everyone agrees.. 
> the vast majority of clients that connect are winamp.

Well this has already been the topic of much discussion :)

We finally disontinued our Ogg Vorbis plugin for winamp, because the
Winamp team has created an official Nullsoft one.  It will be shipped
with an upcoming release of winamp, but which one, we don't know.  So at
least this part is already done.

I've been working all day on a Windows Media Player plugin too.

> Huh.. I wouldn't have guessed that, but it could be true.  What is MPEG 
> going to do, go after Thompson?

Well MPEG is just a blanket organization.  You can license the MPEG
technologies in whole or part from them (I think) but there's nothing
stopping you from going to each technology provider and getting just the
pieces you need.  I guess it all depends on the hassle, the
negotiations, and the price.  With MP3, people have just dealt with
Thompson. I'm not sure why.

> Well "for now" it's a done deal.. yeah the licensing could evolve into 
> something alot uglier.. I just hope you guys are a ways past beta when that 
> happens so I never have to look at mp3s again.  Honestly I pretty much hate 
> them myself, and can't stand listening to them if I have a choice.. I'm 
> just forced to so I can monitor my stream. :)  Other people don't seem to 
> have as discerning tastes, or they just have crummy PC sound setups I guess.

The Ogg Vorbis Release Candidate should be out this summer (maybe this
month), which will be 100% feature complete on the decode side.  1.0
will follow shortly after, but probably won't be too different (we have
to allow at least a small cushion to let the community test and see if
anything major is missing or wrong).  

> If the consumer mind were that simple.. FreeBSD would've long ago replaced 
> windows and the linux-based oses a long time ago.. there is a lot to be 
> said for entrenchment and peoples desire to not 'relearn' things they're 
> already familiar with.

Exactly. That's why Vorbis is in the tools people already use.  Hell,
Tord is even adding it to Bladeenc :)  There's a few major tools left to
go, but we'll get there.

> >Oh really?  So since icecast does niether encoding nor decoding, why is
> >a person using icecast getting charged?  See my point here?
> 
> icecast is getting charged?  I think the person using it is getting 
> charged, usually they are the same person.  If you just set up a repeater 
> on port 8000 that allowed an authorized user to connect and just send raw 
> data, and then others to connect and have that data copied to them.. could 
> they charge you?  I don't think they could, especially if you didn't 
> directly present the data.  If they could.. could they start charging 
> anonymous ftp sites because they -could- be a transport for mp3?  What 
> about the admins of any random http server?  Maybe they could start 
> charging the people that create INN as well.

Of course they'll charge you (maybe it's only if you make money from
it).  And if you run an FTP site, the RIAA will certainly claim that you
owe them money.  Why do you think they get shut down?  Makes since that
if there are financials involved FhG would be after them too, although I
don't know of many ftp sites that make money, although maybe those weird
signups on hotline servers would be liable for royalties.  Who knows
what they will do.  The RIAA _does_ go after individuals, usually by
shutting off their accounts, calling the school IT team, etc.  The RIAA
is pretty small too, and Thompson is much larger.  So who knows how it
will all work, or even if they'll do anything at all.

> That's what I'm saying.. I don't think it would hold water in court.

It doesn't have to usually. Going to court is an expensive enough
deterrant to most people.  Why do you think they make these claims? :)
The risk factor is not worth it for most people, and they will back
down.  I'm already trying to figure out if I could be liable for any
contributory infringement, although I don't think there's an issue.

> I don't.. I'm just somewhat comforted by there being other big corporations 
> who will eventually fight them, by choice or by force.  I've heard the only 
> reason the CD-R drives have escaped this so far is because they can be used 
> (and their primary market target is) for normal data archival.. they are 
> mostly not designed or marketed as "mp3 burners."

There's been some interesting discussion on possible 'computer media
tax' based on teh fact that Apple's main campaign (or one of them) is
Rip.Mix.Burn.  Kudos to apple for assertingi the legitmacy of Fair Use.

Like I said before, the recording industry is tiny compared to the
internet industry, and they've all but killed online entertainment as we
knew it.  Even MP3.com and EMusic are now owned by universal.  Ick.

There will be people to fight, but the RIAA is entrenched, but good.

> I'd rather not discuss Napster in great detail.. they basically drew a huge 
> bullseye on their chest and then taunted the music industry.  "I dare you 
> to try anything.  You can't stop us.  We're going to keep doing this for as 
> long as we like, and since we ourselves don't do anything illegal, you 
> can't stop it."  It's one thing with believing that and being prepared to 
> actually defend it; It's quite another to yell at the top of your lungs and 
> then not have a plan besides "we have faith that our voice, no matter how 
> small or underfunded, will be heard."

I didn't bring up napster to discuss napster, only commenting that one
of the most well known media companies wasn't even around when the
'media laws' were passed.  So how could there have been any kind of fair
representation?  Congress passed the DMCA much much too quickly, and we
are seeing the fallout of this premature and awful law now.

> I will say something is really whacked with the DMCA though in the DeCSS 
> case..  There is a clause in the DMCA that gives expressed -permission- to 
> reverse engineer and then reinvent software if the purpose is to provide 
> support for some media or device on a platform that currently lacks that 
> support.  I don't see how, having demonstrated that clause, the MPAA has a 
> foot to stand on vs. DeCSS at large.. yet they seem to wrap enough 
> doublespeak and buzzwords and money around their lawsuits to actually get 
> them to trial.

IIRC, one of the defendants was DVDCopy.com.  At least in the New York
case.  Hard to claim they were porting the code :)

In any case, the fact that a professor is suing the RIAA in order to
publish his research should make it clear to even the most ignorant,
that the DMCA is a bad piece of legislation.

> I think the bottom line is that the humans are flawed creatures.. there 
> isn't a system around that is going to make up for the flaws in those that 
> designed it, or those that desire to exploit it.  So what's left?  Educate 
> the people, try and raise a higher percentage of decent ones, and hope that 
> in a few generations, we'll have weeded out all the corrupt crooks that 
> currently run things.:)

There are certainly systems that can compensate for flaws, and those
than can expose them frequently.  The florida ballots are one example.
In any case, education is good, but difficult.  I think having it get
this bad will be a good incentive to make it better.  But who knows.

> Take it easy.. this discussion has been pretty interesting so far.

Yep :)

jack.

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From robert at quantum-radio.net.au  Sun Jun 10 10:59:17 2001
From: robert at quantum-radio.net.au (Robert)
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 20:59:17 +1000
Subject: [icecast] Streaming Winamp to Icecast - can't seem to connect?
Message-ID: <002501c0f19c$652faf70$1a6001cb@chalmers.com.au>



Hi,
newbie here....

I have SAM+Winamp set up and streaming ok to Shoutcast and Live365, but have
set up an icecast server on a FreeBSD box here - compiled ok and seems to
run ok. Well, It shows its running in logs and so on. althought the compile
didn't want to know about -pthreads -
Anyway, connecting to the stream with http://ip:port with Winamp - nothing?

I'm pretty sure I have the conf file set up ok and all that.
Without going into sending all that detail - is there something obvious I
need to do other than compile icecast, install it, configure it, then stream
to that port with SAM+Winamp?

thanks
Bob

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From kirk at braille.uwo.ca  Sun Jun 10 15:30:21 2001
From: kirk at braille.uwo.ca (Kirk Reiser)
Date: 10 Jun 2001 11:30:21 -0400
Subject: [icecast] multiple ices streams and misc other stuff?
In-Reply-To: <20010609234634.B1942@xanadu.kublai.com>
Message-ID: <x74rto4ak2.fsf@speech.braille.uwo.ca>



Brendan Cully <brendan at kublai.com> writes:

> Well, it didn't work until yesterday, when I checked in a new
> version. As a matter of fact it only works with extremely current lame
> CVS, some things in lame were just fixed which would cause the current
> code to crash in versions older than June 7.

Talk about coincidences!  I didn't have time until yesterday afternoon
to try to recompile ices.  I would say you've done a fine job then.
Thank you very much.  Of course the nice folks in the lame development
tree broke a few other things for me.  Now my vorbis to mp3 pipes
appear to have broken.  It looks like they've change some command line
switches although I haven't figure yet just what.  The also removed
11025 sampling rate support which I find very iritating.  I'll have to
see what's up with that, 11025 sound a fuck of a lot better than 8000.

> I have the multiple streams ready and can send you a diff against CVS
> probably tomorrow (have to remerge it with the changes I've made to
> the official CVS). I will merge it into CVS probably early next week,
> I just want to do some more fixes to the main branch so that it
> compiles well (and probably add support for the last released version
> of lame). I want to tag it in a healthy state before checking in my
> possibly destabilising multiple stream stuff.

I thank you very much for the kind offer.  I will happily play with it
if you are looking for real world tests.  If you rather not though, I
don't mind waiting a few days for cvs updating.

Once again thank you for your hard work.
  Kirk


-- 

Kirk Reiser				The Computer Braille Facility
e-mail: kirk at braille.uwo.ca		University of Western Ontario
phone: (519) 661-3061

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From brendan at kublai.com  Sun Jun 10 16:45:48 2001
From: brendan at kublai.com (Brendan Cully)
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 12:45:48 -0400
Subject: [icecast] multiple ices streams and misc other stuff?
In-Reply-To: <x74rto4ak2.fsf@speech.braille.uwo.ca>
Message-ID: <20010610124548.A446@xanadu.kublai.com>


On Sunday, 10 June 2001 at 11:30, Kirk Reiser wrote:
> > I have the multiple streams ready and can send you a diff against CVS
> > probably tomorrow (have to remerge it with the changes I've made to
> > the official CVS). I will merge it into CVS probably early next week,
> > I just want to do some more fixes to the main branch so that it
> > compiles well (and probably add support for the last released version
> > of lame). I want to tag it in a healthy state before checking in my
> > possibly destabilising multiple stream stuff.
> 
> I thank you very much for the kind offer.  I will happily play with it
> if you are looking for real world tests.  If you rather not though, I
> don't mind waiting a few days for cvs updating.

Ok, here's a patch against current CVS (you'll have to update again
because I changed configure to look for <lame/lame.h>). I did the
merge pretty quickly, so I might have made a couple mistakes, but it's
running ok here atm...

I'll attach the config file I'm using too, so you can get an idea how
to use it.

-Brendan


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From home at simonb.org.uk  Sun Jun 10 16:52:04 2001
From: home at simonb.org.uk (Simon Blandford)
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 17:52:04 +0100
Subject: [icecast] Icecast2: undefined reference to `xmlDocGetRootElement'
Message-ID: <3B23A5B4.9070304@simonb.org.uk>



Hi,

I am having problems compiling Icecast 2 on a Cobalt server (Red Hat 6.2).
I have installed the required libxml, ogg and vorbis libraries and also 
changed config.c and stat.c to read libxml instead of gnome-xml as 
descibed in the post from  Geoff Shang.

./autogen.sh works fine but I get the following errors after make...

config.o: In function `config_parse_file':
config.o(.text+0x122): undefined reference to `xmlDocGetRootElement'
config.o: In function `_parse_root':
config.o(.text+0x313): undefined reference to `xmlIsBlankNode'
config.o: In function `_parse_limits':
config.o(.text+0x565): undefined reference to `xmlIsBlankNode'
config.o: In function `_parse_directory':
config.o(.text+0x6f7): undefined reference to `xmlIsBlankNode'
config.o: In function `_parse_paths':
config.o(.text+0x7a2): undefined reference to `xmlIsBlankNode'
config.o: In function `_parse_logging':
config.o(.text+0x853): undefined reference to `xmlIsBlankNode'
config.o(.text+0x932): more undefined references to `xmlIsBlankNode' follow
stats.o: In function `stats_sendxml':
stats.o(.text+0x9eb): undefined reference to `xmlDocSetRootElement'
/usr/lib/libxml.so: undefined reference to `gzopen'
/usr/lib/libxml.so: undefined reference to `gzread'
/usr/lib/libxml.so: undefined reference to `gzclose'
/usr/lib/libxml.so: undefined reference to `gzwrite'
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status

What do I have to do to get this to compile?

Regards,
Simon B.

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From jack at icecast.org  Sun Jun 10 16:55:20 2001
From: jack at icecast.org (Jack Moffitt)
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 10:55:20 -0600
Subject: [icecast] Icecast2: undefined reference to `xmlDocGetRootElement'
In-Reply-To: <3B23A5B4.9070304@simonb.org.uk>
Message-ID: <20010610105520.V7332@i.cantcode.com>



> I am having problems compiling Icecast 2 on a Cobalt server (Red Hat 6.2).
> I have installed the required libxml, ogg and vorbis libraries and also 
> changed config.c and stat.c to read libxml instead of gnome-xml as 
> descibed in the post from  Geoff Shang.

What versino of libxml do you have?  You need 1.8.10 or better.  I'm
guessing you have 1.8.9.

jack.

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From thomas at arkena.com  Sun Jun 10 20:20:28 2001
From: thomas at arkena.com (Thomas Kirk)
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 22:20:28 +0200
Subject: [icecast] [thomas@arkena.com: [vorbis] mp3pro and the mp3 streaming license]
In-Reply-To: <20010609095218.G7332@i.cantcode.com>
Message-ID: <20010610222028.C15396@mmstreaming.dk>



On Sat, Jun 09, 2001 at 09:52:18AM -0600, Jack Moffitt wrote:

> You should post this hear, as it's just as relevant ;)

You are right jack im sorry :)

> 
> Hey guys, how do you feel now that you all owe Thompson $2k per year?
> Vorbis look more interesting now :)

Indeed it does and im on my way makeing a plan of implementation
for our radiostations!
Long live Ogg Vorbis! ;-)

> 
> It's really disgusting how the technology is now worth more than the
> music.

Again true! Allthough im working in the technologybuisness ;-) I think
one could say it has to be fair to all parts.


-- 
Venlig hilsen/Kind regards
Thomas Kirk
ARKENA
thomas at arkena.com
http://www.arkena.com

I worked in a health food store once.  A guy came in and asked me,
"If I melt dry ice, can I take a bath without getting wet?"
		-- Steven Wright

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From kirk at braille.uwo.ca  Sun Jun 10 21:58:11 2001
From: kirk at braille.uwo.ca (Kirk Reiser)
Date: 10 Jun 2001 17:58:11 -0400
Subject: [icecast] multiple ices streams and misc other stuff?
In-Reply-To: <20010610124548.A446@xanadu.kublai.com>
Message-ID: <x7zobg2e18.fsf@speech.braille.uwo.ca>



Hi Brendan:  The diff patched, configured and compiled just greate.  A
bit of a false start because I chose a bitrate lame didn't like.  Once
I figured that out however things went fine.  You might want to log
the point lame dies on something which would help others know where to
look for lame errors.

On another note, I see ices still only accepts /tmp for the
ices:Basedirectory tag.  I hope that's on someone's bug list.

A very nice job.  I have three streams running 128, 56, and 24.  They
all sound fine except for the 24 which is lames fault.  I have had it
running long enough yet to know how it will do over time but that'll
come. 'grin'

  Kirk
p.s. If there's anything you want me to beat on in particular just let
me know.


-- 

Kirk Reiser				The Computer Braille Facility
e-mail: kirk at braille.uwo.ca		University of Western Ontario
phone: (519) 661-3061

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From gshang at uq.net.au  Sun Jun 10 22:28:17 2001
From: gshang at uq.net.au (Geoff Shang)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 08:28:17 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [icecast] Streaming Winamp to Icecast - can't seem to connect?
In-Reply-To: <002501c0f19c$652faf70$1a6001cb@chalmers.com.au>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.32.0106110826210.812-100000@data.home>



Hi:

You need to use a port one lower than your configured port if you stream
from winamp.  The shoutcast/live365 servers listen on baseport+1 for
incoming connections whereas icecast does not.  So if you use 8000 on
icecast, connect to 7999 with the winamp dsp plugin.

Geoff.

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From gshang at uq.net.au  Sun Jun 10 22:33:13 2001
From: gshang at uq.net.au (Geoff Shang)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 08:33:13 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [icecast] Re: mp3pro and the mp3 streaming license]
In-Reply-To: <20010610002731.T7332@i.cantcode.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.32.0106110828470.812-100000@data.home>



On Sun, 10 Jun 2001, Jack Moffitt wrote:

> We finally disontinued our Ogg Vorbis plugin for winamp, because the
> Winamp team has created an official Nullsoft one.  It will be shipped
> with an upcoming release of winamp, but which one, we don't know.  So at
> least this part is already done.

For anyone who wants it, you can get it from
http://www.blorp.com/~peter/zips/in_vorbis.zip.  It's stil in the
bug-squashing stage (in practice if not in theory), so now's the time to
beat on it before it ships to Nullsoft.  I've tested it a little and it
seems to work well, though it didn't work on my win95 box with the old
winsock despite what the readme said.

> I've been working all day on a Windows Media Player plugin too.

Fabulous.  BTW, what's the status on your realplayer plugin?  Will it get
included anywhere or just live in CVS land?

Geoff.

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From robert at quantum-radio.net.au  Mon Jun 11 02:42:21 2001
From: robert at quantum-radio.net.au (Robert)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 12:42:21 +1000
Subject: [icecast] Streaming Winamp to Icecast - can't seem to connect?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.32.0106110826210.812-100000@data.home>
Message-ID: <004101c0f220$242147d0$1a6001cb@chalmers.com.au>



Ahh. So that's what that means.
Thanks. I'll give it another go.

bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Geoff Shang" <gshang at uq.net.au>
To: "icecast" <icecast at xiph.org>
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 8:28 AM
Subject: Re: [icecast] Streaming Winamp to Icecast - can't seem to connect?

> Hi:
>
> You need to use a port one lower than your configured port if you stream
> from winamp.  The shoutcast/live365 servers listen on baseport+1 for
> incoming connections whereas icecast does not.  So if you use 8000 on
> icecast, connect to 7999 with the winamp dsp plugin.
>
> Geoff.
>
>
>
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>

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From brendan at kublai.com  Mon Jun 11 03:18:32 2001
From: brendan at kublai.com (Brendan Cully)
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 23:18:32 -0400
Subject: [icecast] multiple ices streams and misc other stuff?
In-Reply-To: <x7zobg2e18.fsf@speech.braille.uwo.ca>
Message-ID: <20010610231832.D27182@xanadu.kublai.com>



On Sunday, 10 June 2001 at 17:58, Kirk Reiser wrote:
> Hi Brendan:  The diff patched, configured and compiled just greate.  A
> bit of a false start because I chose a bitrate lame didn't like.  Once
> I figured that out however things went fine.  You might want to log
> the point lame dies on something which would help others know where to
> look for lame errors.

lame doesn't tell you exactly what's wrong, but I've made the error
message a bit more clear. But you'll have a lot of conflicts if you
try to cvs up with the patch applied, due to the new code for
"backward compatibility" with the oh-so-ancient 3.88beta of
lame. Aside from autoconf stuff, the only thing worth updating is
src/id3.c, which should now properly update the metadata for the first
track...

> On another note, I see ices still only accepts /tmp for the
> ices:Basedirectory tag.  I hope that's on someone's bug list.

ok, it is now.

> A very nice job.  I have three streams running 128, 56, and 24.  They
> all sound fine except for the 24 which is lames fault.  I have had it
> running long enough yet to know how it will do over time but that'll
> come. 'grin'

Thanks, it's good to have some feedback (and better to hear that it's
working!). For the 24kbit stream, did you make it mono (set
ices:Channels to 1)? that helps a lot I find...

-Brendan

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From deep at parks.lv  Mon Jun 11 09:53:51 2001
From: deep at parks.lv (deep-z)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 12:53:51 +0300
Subject: [icecast] please help!
Message-ID: <89351985878.20010611125351@parks.lv>



Hello all,

is it possible to 'restream' another server stream with liveice/mpg123
to another icecast server?

we have to setup this really fast, so maybe someone can share with
actual cmdline string for it? ;)


-- 
Best regards,
deep-z
Riga/LV

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From gshang at uq.net.au  Mon Jun 11 13:01:10 2001
From: gshang at uq.net.au (Geoff Shang)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 23:01:10 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [icecast] please help!
In-Reply-To: <89351985878.20010611125351@parks.lv>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.32.0106112259260.812-100000@data.home>



Hi:

Do you need to reencode the stream to another bitrate or do you just need
to relay it?  If all you need to do is set up a relay, take a look at the
relayig stuff in icecast.  You can do it just with icecast, nothing else is
necessary.

Geoff.

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From jack at icecast.org  Mon Jun 11 13:48:02 2001
From: jack at icecast.org (Jack Moffitt)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 07:48:02 -0600
Subject: [icecast] please help!
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.32.0106112259260.812-100000@data.home>
Message-ID: <20010611074802.A18392@i.cantcode.com>



> Do you need to reencode the stream to another bitrate or do you just need
> to relay it?  If all you need to do is set up a relay, take a look at the
> relayig stuff in icecast.  You can do it just with icecast, nothing else is
> necessary.

If you need to reencode on the fly and republish, jwz has scripts for
this in perl at www.dnalounge.com

jack.

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From jack at icecast.org  Mon Jun 11 14:09:37 2001
From: jack at icecast.org (Jack Moffitt)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 08:09:37 -0600
Subject: [icecast] Streaming Winamp to Icecast - can't seem to connect?
In-Reply-To: <004101c0f220$242147d0$1a6001cb@chalmers.com.au>
Message-ID: <20010611080937.C18392@i.cantcode.com>



> > You need to use a port one lower than your configured port if you stream
> > from winamp.  The shoutcast/live365 servers listen on baseport+1 for
> > incoming connections whereas icecast does not.  So if you use 8000 on
> > icecast, connect to 7999 with the winamp dsp plugin.

Or just tell icecast to use two ports, 8000, and 8001.  Then you're
tools will work fine.

jack.

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From andrew at baselbiet.ch  Mon Jun 11 14:30:57 2001
From: andrew at baselbiet.ch (Andreas Gunzenhauser)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 16:30:57 +0200
Subject: [icecast] building a multi-user-jukebox with icecast..need some advice
Message-ID: <002b01c0f283$218b0390$0362e6c2@baselbiet.ch>



hi

I'm trying to build a prototype for something I've had in mind
for quite some years and finally is approaching to become reality.
But let me explain the circumstances:

I have a collection of albums (5000+) ripped to HQ VBR MP3's and
use my own web-interface to operate my jukebox (written in php,
does all I need, playlist manipulations, add whole albums, search
my whole collection and add results etc.). Currently the webinterface is
on a Linux Box and controls a Winamp on the playing machine (NT) via
httpq-plugin in winamp,
works pretty neat, my goal was to be able to listen to one song
that comes to my mind in < 5 secs, music at the speed of brainwaves,
virtually...

I've also configured an icecast server and now I
am able to connect to the played stream from anywhere and can control via
web interface my playlist...so can listen to any song from my collection
from virtually anywhere.

Ok now lets get to the point, which is: I want to enable my friends
to be able to do the same, they have provided me with their CD's
to build this, now I'd like them to be able to use the service
the same way and listen to their music at home using Winamp.

I have the whole interface for this, but I don't want to have
for every user a single winamp and a single icecast server.

Therefore I am looking for some help on how to achieve this...

I think basic questions are:

- As all mp3's are high quality I'll need to run an on-the-fly encoder
  to the desired, lower bitrate for streaming - how much CPU time will it
  use and how many of them can run on a single Linux box ? Appearantly,
  I'll need one encoder for every user and one slot in the Icecast Server
  for every user (concurrent user). So if 5 friends are online, each
  of them listening to different songs and manipulating his playlist,
  will it work or will it kill the machine because of the re-encoding of the
files ?

- I could run a separate server with the Icecast on and a separate machine
  with the encoders running on.

- Is it at all possible or do I need to convert all my HQ MP3's to Low
Quality
  to use direct output without encoding on demand ?

- Most important: Basically, what tools would I need for it ? I'd need
something controlable
  as a player/encoder because I want them to be able to skip a song in
playlist
  using the web interface..so I thought about FreeAmp command line version,
  but I was not sure if it's the right choice and I think to really make
this
  good, one needs to select the right tools at first, otherwise a lot of
time
  is lost.

Tnx for reading my story so far - if you have questions, don't hesitate
to let me know..and hopefully some of you have some experience with such
a multiuser-jukebox-dream.

Thanks !

Andrew

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From scott at myplay.com  Mon Jun 11 14:52:32 2001
From: scott at myplay.com (Scott Manley)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 07:52:32 -0700
Subject: [icecast] Re: mp3pro and the mp3 streaming license]
In-Reply-To: <20010609163033.S7332@i.cantcode.com>
Message-ID: <3B24DB30.71CB751@myplay.com>



You know..... live365 could probably improve their position regarding
royalties right now by showing they do more than mp3.... Maybe they want
vorbis support ;-)
(Actually - i guess they work with layer 2 as well)

The myplay technology works with many formats - it is just bits being
pushed over the network....


-- 
Scott Manley (AKA Szyzyg)
Streaming Media Hacker
www.myplay.com

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From Bryan.Walls at msfc.nasa.gov  Mon Jun 11 20:38:49 2001
From: Bryan.Walls at msfc.nasa.gov (Bryan Walls)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 15:38:49 -0500
Subject: [icecast] liveice/lame problem
In-Reply-To: <NEBBLFFGALGHHGJDHKNKCENNDDAA.ngorchilov@orbitel.bg>
Message-ID: <p05100303b74ad9778c89@[128.158.143.46]>



I've set up Liveice on a Yellowdog Linux laptop (YDL 2.0). I'm trying 
to stream to an icecast server on another YDL 2.0 system.

Streaming seems to be fine, but encoding is pure garbage. When I 
listen to the stream, it basically sounds like white noise. The 
intesity of the hum depends on the strength of the sound being 
encoded, though. If I stop playing the CD, it drops to a  gentle hum, 
turn it on I hear a loud one.

I'm assuming the problem is with lame encoding (so to speak). I'm 
using LAME 3.7. I've tried encoding at several different speeds (bit 
rate and encoding), and well as setting the -h switch, all with no 
difference. Anyone else seen this? Suggestions?

-- 
Bryan Walls                             My words are not NASA policy.
Bryan.Walls at msfc.nasa.gov               (256)544-3311voice,544-7128fax
http://science.nasa.gov	http://liftoff.msfc.nasa.gov http://kids.msfc.nasa.gov

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From scott at myplay.com  Mon Jun 11 21:16:36 2001
From: scott at myplay.com (Scott Manley)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 14:16:36 -0700
Subject: [icecast] liveice/lame problem
In-Reply-To: <p05100303b74ad9778c89@[128.158.143.46]>
Message-ID: <3B253534.85E5C1B6@myplay.com>



Bryan Walls wrote:
> 
> I've set up Liveice on a Yellowdog Linux laptop (YDL 2.0). I'm trying
> to stream to an icecast server on another YDL 2.0 system.
> 
> Streaming seems to be fine, but encoding is pure garbage. When I
> listen to the stream, it basically sounds like white noise. The
> intesity of the hum depends on the strength of the sound being
> encoded, though. If I stop playing the CD, it drops to a  gentle hum,
> turn it on I hear a loud one.
> 
> I'm assuming the problem is with lame encoding (so to speak). I'm
> using LAME 3.7. I've tried encoding at several different speeds (bit
> rate and encoding), and well as setting the -h switch, all with no
> difference. Anyone else seen this? Suggestions?

This is the endianess getting screwed up since PPC is big endian, Grep
though the liveice code for NUMBER_LITTLE_ENDIAN and undefine it...

I'm *guessing* this will fix it.....


-- 
Scott Manley (AKA Szyzyg)
Streaming Media Hacker
www.myplay.com

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From robert at quantum-radio.net.au  Mon Jun 11 22:04:05 2001
From: robert at quantum-radio.net.au (Robert)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 08:04:05 +1000
Subject: [icecast] Streaming Winamp to Icecast - can't seem to connect?
In-Reply-To: <20010611080937.C18392@i.cantcode.com>
Message-ID: <003701c0f2c2$6ee766d0$1a6001cb@chalmers.com.au>



Still in newbie-icecast mode here.

ok. I just use the setting configured into icecast.conf basically. 8000 and
8001.  That makes sense.

Now, if I'm using Winamp to send a stream to icecast, I set it up with
Shoutcast Source for Winamp, and point it to
IP:  xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx
Port: 8000

When I want to listen to it, I point another copy of Winamp to

http://xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx:8000/    ????

Do I need to add users or "mount points" ? or do anything e;lse to the conf
file. I have tried all sorts of things, and get either no stream, not found,
user kicked off, source kicked off, no permissions...

hmmm so for being so dumb on this, but the help files are a little arcane -
not to mention the web interface?

thanks
Bob

> > > You need to use a port one lower than your configured port if you
stream
> > > from winamp.  The shoutcast/live365 servers listen on baseport+1 for
> > > incoming connections whereas icecast does not.  So if you use 8000 on
> > > icecast, connect to 7999 with the winamp dsp plugin.
>
> Or just tell icecast to use two ports, 8000, and 8001.  Then you're
> tools will work fine.
>
> jack.
>
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From dave at jetcafe.org  Tue Jun 12 05:08:14 2001
From: dave at jetcafe.org (Dave Hayes)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 22:08:14 -0700
Subject: [icecast] FreeBSD in general
In-Reply-To: <[icecast] FreeBSD in general>
Message-ID: <200106120508.WAA14526@hokkshideh.jetcafe.org>



Matt Boersma <boersma at genomica.com> writes:
> from 0.8 - 2 % CPU time and about 4MB of resident memory.  I even
> "renice -10" it at the suggestion of someone else on this list.
> Lame (or another encoder) will be by far the biggest CPU consumer.

Have you tried rtprio at all? I understand this may be the only thing
running on your box, but still...

> If you don't have the newer sock.c (from CVS, not in the 1.3.10.tgz
> distribution), you will likely hear "looping" problems, so make sure
> to get it.

Is there a patch anywhere?

Also, has anyone noticed that sometimes icecast doesn't touch
yp.icecast.org properly? I see my station on shoutcast.com, but
not icecast.org...
-------
Dave Hayes - Consultant - Altadena CA, USA - dave at jetcafe.org 
>>> The opinions expressed above are entirely my own <<<

The original purpose of cultivating restraint is so that eventually...
                                        one will not need to have restraint.

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From ceyre at vicnet.net.au  Tue Jun 12 05:27:25 2001
From: ceyre at vicnet.net.au (Christian Eyre)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 15:27:25 +1000
Subject: [icecast] Newbie Question on encoder password error
Message-ID: <20010612152725.B670@vicnet.net.au>



Hi,
I'm having problems getting icecast to accept the encoder password on shout. Unencoded or encoded, on the server or client, the password isn't being accepted when shout is run. Any suggestions?

1. server: debian with 2.2.18 kernal
2. software: 
        icecast-client 1.4.0-4        Streaming Mpeg Layer III feeder
        icecast-server 1.3.10-2       Streaming Mpeg Layer III server

Note by default, icecast is prepackaged with encrypted password support. 

3. password encryption method

$echo passwd > /tmp/pass
makepasswd --clearfrom=/tmp/pass --crypt
rm /tmp/pass

4. stderr output: 
$shout
[Error in read, exiting
read: Broken pipe

5. icecast.log error

... [Bad Password] [encoder], connected for 0 seconds, 0 bytes transfered. -1
 sources connected
 

 

-- 
Kind regards
Christian Eyre

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From robert at quantum-radio.net.au  Tue Jun 12 06:37:48 2001
From: robert at quantum-radio.net.au (Robert)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 16:37:48 +1000
Subject: [icecast] [Newbie Q] Relay to an Icecast server apparently not relaying?
Message-ID: <000d01c0f30a$363d8d80$1a6001cb@chalmers.com.au>



The main stream is going to a Shoutcast server via Winamp. Works fine. A
Relay stream goes to Live365. Works fine.

I set up a Relay under SAM to point to the Icecast server running on another
box on the network. In SAMs Realy section it tells me that it's connected -
and Icecast seems to be telling me the same thing. Obviously I'm missing
something in the setup of IceCast - I think? because there appear to be no
sources (streams?) or clients?

in the following: ruby.chalmers.com.au is the Icecast box.
carbon.chalmers.com.au is the SAM+Winamp box.

[12/Jun/2001:16:24:51] Icecast Version 1.3.10 Starting..
[12/Jun/2001:16:24:51] Starting Admin Console Thread...
-> [12/Jun/2001:16:24:51] Starting main connection handler...
-> [12/Jun/2001:16:24:51] Listening on port 8000...
-> [12/Jun/2001:16:24:51] Listening on port 8001...
-> [12/Jun/2001:16:24:51] Using 'ruby.chalmers.com.au' as servername...
-> [12/Jun/2001:16:24:51] Server limits: 900 clients, 900 clients per
source, 10 sources, 5 admins
-> [12/Jun/2001:16:24:51] WWW Admin interface accessible at
http://ruby.chalmers.com.au:8000/admin
-> [12/Jun/2001:16:24:51] Starting Calender Thread...
-> [12/Jun/2001:16:24:51] Starting UDP handler thread...
-> [12/Jun/2001:16:24:51] Starting relay connector thread...
-> -> [12/Jun/2001:16:24:51] [Bandwidth: 0.000000MB/s] [Sources: 0]
[Clients: 0] [Admins: 1] [Uptime: 3 seconds]
-> [12/Jun/2001:16:24:56] Accepted admin pass from connection 1. 2 admins
connected
-> [12/Jun/2001:16:24:56] Admin [carbon.chalmers.com.au] said: tail
-> [12/Jun/2001:16:25:29] Admin [carbon.chalmers.com.au] said: sources
-> [12/Jun/2001:16:26:29] Admin [carbon.chalmers.com.au] said: sources
-> [12/Jun/2001:16:26:43] Admin [carbon.chalmers.com.au] said: listeners
-> [12/Jun/2001:16:26:51] [Bandwidth: 0.000000MB/s] [Sources: 0] [Clients:
0] [Admins: 2] [Uptime: 2 minutes and 3 seconds]

If I try and connect to a stream on the Icecast server (ruby) I get this.
( merlin.chalmers.com.au is the laptop on the network, running Winamp to
listen with)

-> [12/Jun/2001:16:30:46] Kicking unknown 2 [merlin.chalmers.com.au] [No
encoder], connected for 1 seconds
-> [12/Jun/2001:16:30:51] [Bandwidth: 0.000000MB/s] [Sources: 0] [Clients:
0] [Admins: 2] [Uptime: 6 minutes and 3 seconds]

Would anyone have any idea what I need to do to get rthat stream to the
ICecast server operational?

Thanks
Robert

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From gshang at uq.net.au  Tue Jun 12 07:11:25 2001
From: gshang at uq.net.au (Geoff Shang)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 17:11:25 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [icecast] [Newbie Q] Relay to an Icecast server apparently not relaying?
In-Reply-To: <000d01c0f30a$363d8d80$1a6001cb@chalmers.com.au>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.32.0106121649080.812-100000@data.home>



Hi:

Let me see if I understand what you're doing.  You're using winamp (or
whatever) to stream to a shoutcast server which pushes a relay on to
live365 (or live365 pulls from shoutcast, same deal really).  Now you've
got a second winamp with samcast trying to pull shoutcast or live365 and
pass it to icecast.  Is that right?

OK.  Firstly, there is no source connecting to icecast.  The login you are
seeing is an admin login.  Now, this plugin might do that for some reason,
but the fact remains that there's no actual source.  This is why the client
gets kicked as in the error message.

I don't know SAM so I can't comment there, and that would appear to be
where your problem is since it looks like it's not even trying to connect
as a source.

Having said all that, you can get icecast itself to pull a relay by
aliasing a mountpoint to the remote stream.  The neat thing about doing it
this way is that (A) you don't need another source to do the relaying and
(B) icecast doesn't pull unless there's one or more clients to listen to
it.

The format for aliasing is:

alias <mountpoint> <A HREF="http://<server">http://<server</A>>:<port>

for example:

alias relay http://shoutcast.myserver.com:8000

Will give anyone who connects to your machine on the /relay mountpoint the
stream that can be heard at http://shoutcast.myserver.com:8000.

Hope this helps.

Geoff.

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From robert at quantum-radio.net.au  Tue Jun 12 07:20:33 2001
From: robert at quantum-radio.net.au (Robert)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 17:20:33 +1000
Subject: [icecast] [Newbie Q] Relay to an Icecast server apparently not relaying?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.32.0106121649080.812-100000@data.home>
Message-ID: <001701c0f310$2ba60220$1a6001cb@chalmers.com.au>



Thanks Geoff. That got it.
I started with a new conf file for icecast from icecast.conf-dist, and set
up a relay.
http://ruby.chalmers.com.au:8000/4qir

and presto - it all working. Even SAM appears to see it now, giving be
correct listener stats.

That mountpoint bit has me foxed. very tricky.

Thanks
Robert

> Hi:
>
> Let me see if I understand what you're doing.  You're using winamp (or
> whatever) to stream to a shoutcast server which pushes a relay on to
> live365 (or live365 pulls from shoutcast, same deal really).  Now you've
> got a second winamp with samcast trying to pull shoutcast or live365 and
> pass it to icecast.  Is that right?
>
> OK.  Firstly, there is no source connecting to icecast.  The login you are
> seeing is an admin login.  Now, this plugin might do that for some reason,
> but the fact remains that there's no actual source.  This is why the
client
> gets kicked as in the error message.
>
> I don't know SAM so I can't comment there, and that would appear to be
> where your problem is since it looks like it's not even trying to connect
> as a source.
>
> Having said all that, you can get icecast itself to pull a relay by
> aliasing a mountpoint to the remote stream.  The neat thing about doing it
> this way is that (A) you don't need another source to do the relaying and
> (B) icecast doesn't pull unless there's one or more clients to listen to
> it.
>
> The format for aliasing is:
>
> alias <mountpoint> <A HREF="http://<server">http://<server</A>>:<port>
>
> for example:
>
> alias relay http://shoutcast.myserver.com:8000
>
> Will give anyone who connects to your machine on the /relay mountpoint the
> stream that can be heard at http://shoutcast.myserver.com:8000.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Geoff.
>
>
>
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From robert at quantum-radio.net.au  Tue Jun 12 08:36:42 2001
From: robert at quantum-radio.net.au (Robert)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 18:36:42 +1000
Subject: [icecast] RealPlayer 8 better for listening than Winamp.
Message-ID: <002301c0f31a$cf7c8f40$1a6001cb@chalmers.com.au>



I discover here that Real player 8 seems to be less 'demanding' of resources
than Winamp when it comes to listening to the stream that comes in.
Could be wrong of course though.
bc

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From robert at quantum-radio.net.au  Tue Jun 12 08:39:35 2001
From: robert at quantum-radio.net.au (Robert)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 18:39:35 +1000
Subject: [icecast] Does icecast know about tag-info in a stream from another server?
Message-ID: <002b01c0f31b$359c5bc0$1a6001cb@chalmers.com.au>



I notice that Icecast doesn't seem to be able to pick out the taginfo from
the stream that it's pulling from the other server? is this something I can
change? or is that the way it is?

Thanks
Robert

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From Bryan.Walls at msfc.nasa.gov  Tue Jun 12 21:33:04 2001
From: Bryan.Walls at msfc.nasa.gov (Bryan Walls)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 16:33:04 -0500
Subject: [icecast] liveice/lame problem
In-Reply-To: <3B253534.85E5C1B6@myplay.com>
Message-ID: <p05100303b74c3af73797@[128.158.143.46]>



Bingo! I wouldn't have thought of that in a month of Sundays! Thanks.

>Bryan Walls wrote:
>>
>>  I've set up Liveice on a Yellowdog Linux laptop (YDL 2.0). I'm trying
>>  to stream to an icecast server on another YDL 2.0 system.
>>
>>  Streaming seems to be fine, but encoding is pure garbage. When I
>>  listen to the stream, it basically sounds like white noise. The
>>  intesity of the hum depends on the strength of the sound being
>>  encoded, though. If I stop playing the CD, it drops to a  gentle hum,
>>  turn it on I hear a loud one.
>>
>>  I'm assuming the problem is with lame encoding (so to speak). I'm
>>  using LAME 3.7. I've tried encoding at several different speeds (bit
>>  rate and encoding), and well as setting the -h switch, all with no
>>  difference. Anyone else seen this? Suggestions?
>
>This is the endianess getting screwed up since PPC is big endian, Grep
>though the liveice code for NUMBER_LITTLE_ENDIAN and undefine it...
>
>I'm *guessing* this will fix it.....
>
>
>--
>Scott Manley (AKA Szyzyg)
>Streaming Media Hacker
>www.myplay.com
>
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-- 
Bryan Walls                             My words are not NASA policy.
Bryan.Walls at msfc.nasa.gov               (256)544-3311voice,544-7128fax
http://science.nasa.gov	http://liftoff.msfc.nasa.gov http://kids.msfc.nasa.gov

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From brendan at kublai.com  Tue Jun 12 22:38:13 2001
From: brendan at kublai.com (Brendan Cully)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 18:38:13 -0400
Subject: [icecast] ices users, please test the ices in CVS
Message-ID: <20010612183812.E447@xanadu.kublai.com>



Hi,

I've been doing some work on ices, and I'd like to put out a release
shortly so I can get to work on MultiStreaming (tm). Some bugs are
fixed (eg now ices:BaseDirectory works (but note it is no longer
called ices:Base_Directory - I figured since it was broken odds were
good no one was using it), and song length is correct in the cue
file), but mostly I've done a ton of work on the build process. There
are some minor new features (you can specify a path to your xml
libraries, and you can link against an already-installed libshout),
but mostly I've just rewritten what was a very messy process.

This means that I have no idea whether ices now builds on any but the
two systems I happen to have available to me. So, I'd appreciate it if
those of you who can use CVS and ices would check out the current copy
and play with it. I'd appreciate feedback over the next couple days
before I make an actual release.

Thanks,
Brendan

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From kirk at braille.uwo.ca  Wed Jun 13 12:01:20 2001
From: kirk at braille.uwo.ca (Kirk Reiser)
Date: 13 Jun 2001 08:01:20 -0400
Subject: [icecast] ices users, please test the ices in CVS
In-Reply-To: <20010612183812.E447@xanadu.kublai.com>
Message-ID: <x7iti0r3lb.fsf@speech.braille.uwo.ca>



Will this update against the patched tree you gave me?  I not and I
expect not, can I update enough to get the fixes to the basedirectory
path?  I hate having that stuff in tmp.

  Kirk


-- 

Kirk Reiser				The Computer Braille Facility
e-mail: kirk at braille.uwo.ca		University of Western Ontario
phone: (519) 661-3061

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From brendan at kublai.com  Wed Jun 13 14:21:24 2001
From: brendan at kublai.com (Brendan Cully)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 10:21:24 -0400
Subject: [icecast-dev] Re: [icecast] ices users, please test the ices in CVS
In-Reply-To: <x7iti0r3lb.fsf@speech.braille.uwo.ca>
Message-ID: <20010613102124.B433@xanadu.kublai.com>



On Wednesday, 13 June 2001 at 08:01, Kirk Reiser wrote:
> Will this update against the patched tree you gave me?  I not and I
> expect not, can I update enough to get the fixes to the basedirectory
> path?  I hate having that stuff in tmp.

You can find an updated multiple stream patch at
http://cvs.icecast.org/~brendan/patch.bac-icesmultistream-20010613.1

-Brendan

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From rushing at orbislumen.net  Wed Jun 13 18:47:53 2001
From: rushing at orbislumen.net (Mark Rushing)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 11:47:53 -0700
Subject: [icecast] Remote Icecast monitor available for 'mon'
Message-ID: <200106131847.LAA31904@helios.orbislumen.net>



Hi... for people using icecast 1.3.10 (the only one tested) and 
monitoring their network/services with the 'mon' tool, a monitor is now 
available to monitor icecast servers and stream mountpoints. 
(availability).

Mon is at http://www.kernel.org/software/mon and the icecast.monitor 
should be in the contrib archive. If not yet, you can get it at 
http://orbislumen.net/software/icecast.monitor

Mark

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From mmarquez at netra.net  Thu Jun 14 15:36:43 2001
From: mmarquez at netra.net (Mario Marquez)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:36:43 -0500
Subject: [icecast] Radio Station
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010614103632.025d7270@netra.net>



=)

Hi,

http://w3.com.mx

The new group of radio station over the Internet.

Visit with your winamp

http://w3.com.mx:9000/beatles
http://w3.com.mx:9000/radiocartoon
http://w3.com.mx:9000/clasica
http://w3.com.mx:9000/trovarroba
http://w3.com.mx:9000/mexicanisima

Best Regards,

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                         MoZ
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
M a r i o   M ? r q ue z  - Coordinador de ANICAST
" La mejor estaci?n de M?sica ANIME " http://anicast.com.mx
ICQ 13446118         AOL : MrMoZ         moz at anicast.com.mx
--- " Si hay la posibilidad de que varias cosas salgan mal, la que cause 
m?s da?o ser? la que salga peor"  - Tercer Corolario de la Ley de Murphy ---

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From matt at sprout.org  Thu Jun 14 16:55:30 2001
From: matt at sprout.org (Matt Boersma)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:55:30 -0600
Subject: [icecast] Log analysis suggestions?
Message-ID: <01061410553000.01744@buzz.genomica.com>



I'd like to provide an html summary of my icecast server's usage patterns for 
the volunteers at our radio station.  The things I'd really like to know are:
- average # of clients connected, over time
- average length of a client's connection
- peak number of clients connected and the time that occurred
- general info like the domain summary of clients, etc.

Ideally this would be a page generated on-demand, but an hourly update 
through cron would also be fine.

I have webalizer installed and can run it over icecast's access.log, but it 
doesn't quite do what I need.  Has anyone come up with anything better?

Also, assuming I can generate such an html summary page, is there a way to 
get icecast itself to serve that page through http?  (If not, I guess I could 
modify the sources to do so.)  I have no other need for an http server, so it 
would be nice to icecast do this and thereby avoid installing Apache or 
something similar.

I'm using FreeBSD 4.3, icecast 1.3.10, liveice, and lame, just FYI.

(Off-topic: the mailing list search feature at 
http://www.xiph.org/archives/icecast/masterindex.html
doesn't seem to work.  I *always* get Total matches: 0.  Anyone know why?)

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From tux at chello.at  Fri Jun 15 11:06:47 2001
From: tux at chello.at (bernd)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 13:06:47 +0200
Subject: [icecast] Question regarding ACLs
Message-ID: <3B29EC47.259D30FC@chello.at>



Hello everybody,

I've got a question regarding ACLs. As we are only allowed to have
national traffic, we have to explicitly allow all providers from our
country. We have some providers serving e.g. half a class B network,
where the other net belongs to foreign providers. Is there a way to
implement netmasks in the configfile ?

Best regards, thanx in advance

Bernd

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From thomas at arkena.com  Fri Jun 15 13:41:54 2001
From: thomas at arkena.com (Thomas Kirk)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 15:41:54 +0200
Subject: [icecast] Ogg vorbistest stream up and running
Message-ID: <20010615154154.J9827@mmstreaming.dk>



I launched a Ogg vorbis test stream on a good connection.
Feel free to check it out! Be warned though its 128kbps and consist
mainly of electronic music. 

Ogg Vorbis streaming :

http://mik.mmstreaming.com:8004/test.ogg

I'll update the playlist as i get around to it ;-) 

Enjoy the music! 


-- 
Venlig hilsen/Kind regards
Thomas Kirk
ARKENA
thomas at arkena.com
http://www.arkena.com

If God had wanted us to be concerned for the plight of the toads, he would
have made them cute and furry. 
		-- Dave Barry

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From gshang at uq.net.au  Fri Jun 15 14:52:36 2001
From: gshang at uq.net.au (Geoff Shang)
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 00:52:36 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [icecast] While we're publicising icecast2 streams...
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.32.0106160045000.23993-100000@data.home>



Hi all:

I've had an icecast2 stream up for about a week now and thought I'd tell
you all about it.  This is a very primitive setup - using icecast2 and
libshout on a linux box and using the example program along with a random
sort utility to shunt the files to the server.  The stream is at 22.05khz
mono at the lowest bitrate, meaning it hovers around the 32kbps mark.

there are 38 songs up there currently.  Each has a comment tag, so you
should get title, artist and other good stuff as the stream plays.

If you'd like to test it out, feel free to connect to:

http://bumpy.braille.uwo.ca:9000/test.ogg

I intend to add more songs as I find time to do so.  Also, I mean to shift
the stream over to ices2 once I compile it and figure out how it works.
Will let you know when I've done this.

Enjoy!

Geoff.

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From From at xiph.org  Fri Jun 15 19:01:00 2001
From: From at xiph.org (From at xiph.org)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 15:01 -0400
Subject: Subject: [icecast] Question regarding ACLs
Message-ID: <7745C68F7A.AAAB50@uis.umassp.edu>



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 Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 13:06:47 +0200
 From: bernd <tux at chello.at>
 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.3 i686)
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 Subject: [icecast] Question regarding ACLs
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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 Precedence: bulk
 Reply-To: icecast at xiph.org
 Hello everybody,
 
 I've got a question regarding ACLs. As we are only allowed to have
 national traffic, we have to explicitly allow all providers from our
 country. We have some providers serving e.g. half a class B network,
 where the other net belongs to foreign providers. Is there a way to
 implement netmasks in the configfile ?
 
 Best regards, thanx in advance
 
 Bernd
 
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From brendan at icecast.org  Sat Jun 16 00:12:11 2001
From: brendan at icecast.org (Brendan Cully)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 20:12:11 -0400
Subject: [icecast] ices 0.1.0 released
Message-ID: <20010615201211.A1434@xanadu.kublai.com>



Hi,

Since I got no negative feedback (or any feedback) about the autoconf
changes I did a couple days ago, I've released ices 0.1.0 at

http://www.icecast.org/releases/ices-0.1.0.tar.gz

This is mostly a collection of minor bugfixes, plus an update to the
reencoder to use the current LAME API. Note you'll need at least LAME
3.88beta to use reencoding. From the changelog:

- 0.1.0		2001-06-15
        - Reencoder updated to new LAME API of 3.88.
        - new option --with-xmlconfig when building to locate xml libraries
        - configure looks for python 2
        - new commandline option -V for version/feature info
        - cue file song length field now correct
        - BaseDirectory configuration option works
        - support for using an installed libshout
        - fixes to metadata update (first song metadata now set)

-Brendan

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From eel at musiknet.se  Sat Jun 16 12:15:41 2001
From: eel at musiknet.se (Alexander Haväng)
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 14:15:41 +0200
Subject: [icecast] ices 0.1.0 released
In-Reply-To: <20010615201211.A1434@xanadu.kublai.com>
Message-ID: <20010616141541.A30725@ljudo.shortlist.se>



> Since I got no negative feedback (or any feedback) about the autoconf
> changes I did a couple days ago, I've released ices 0.1.0 at

Sowwy. I looked at the multiple streams stuff and it looked fine.
You did well.. :)
Didn't try it though.. :)

Thanks for keeping the program alive ;)

//Eel

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From kirk at braille.uwo.ca  Sat Jun 16 13:53:52 2001
From: kirk at braille.uwo.ca (Kirk Reiser)
Date: 16 Jun 2001 09:53:52 -0400
Subject: [icecast] ices 0.1.0 released
In-Reply-To: <20010616141541.A30725@ljudo.shortlist.se>
Message-ID: <x7bsnobken.fsf@speech.braille.uwo.ca>



I am having one slight weirdness which I haven't been able to put my
finger on yet. About once every other day or so ices dies with an error
about libshout not being able to reconnect to the server.  I am not
sure who is guilty here ices or icecast.  Unfortunately it only
happens rarely, twice so far, I'll let you folks know more if I can
get a better handle on it.

  Kirk


-- 

Kirk Reiser				The Computer Braille Facility
e-mail: kirk at braille.uwo.ca		University of Western Ontario
phone: (519) 661-3061

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From smith at panix.com  Sat Jun 16 18:03:09 2001
From: smith at panix.com (ber)
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 14:03:09 -0400
Subject: [icecast] directory_touch_xa knocks me down
Message-ID: <3B2B9F5D.E4450149@panix.com>



I'm using icecast 1.3.10 and ices 0.1.0.  I'm streaming through
adsl which seems to do about 350Kb up.  Everything is fine and
stable for up to the 2 simultaneous subscribers I've tested so
far.  But...  when I uncommented a directory server (yp.icecast.org)
I see in the log:

    directory_touch_xa([yp.icecast.org:80]) completed...server id = 69

and about the same time the clients hiccup and disconnect.  Even when
there
is only one client. Does the directory update consume significant
bandwidth?
I've turned the updates off ofr now.

Thanks,

        brian

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From mg-ice at grant.org  Sat Jun 16 19:45:35 2001
From: mg-ice at grant.org (Michael Grant)
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 21:45:35 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: [icecast] reencoding mp3 as vorbis live
Message-ID: <200106161945.VAA24690@splat.grant.org>



What I want to do is put up an icecast 2 server streaming vorbis, but
the original live stream is mp3.  It seems that I want to do something 
like this (with all the options left out for clarity):

        mpg123 | lame | something

where the "something" is some command that sends the bits to icecast
like ices.  Does such a thing exist for ogg/vorbis?  Is there a better 
way to do this?

-Mike

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From gshang at uq.net.au  Sat Jun 16 23:51:03 2001
From: gshang at uq.net.au (Geoff Shang)
Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 09:51:03 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [icecast] reencoding mp3 as vorbis live
In-Reply-To: <200106161945.VAA24690@splat.grant.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.32.0106170945510.23993-100000@data.home>



On Sat, 16 Jun 2001, Michael Grant wrote:

> 	mpg123 | lame | something
>
> where the "something" is some command that sends the bits to icecast

I can't speak for ices2 - haven't used it yet.  Lame's vorbis support is
outdated, use oggenc instead.  The libshout for icecast2 comes with a small
example program which streams stdin to icecast2.  So you could do:

mpg123 |oggenc |example

I'd recommend using oggenc from CVS and use its raw options as you can run
into problems with wav length headers.

Hope this makes some form of sense.

Oh and the server, port, etc. for your server are hard-coded into example.c
so you have to edit that before you start streaming.

Geoff.

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From msmith at labyrinth.net.au  Sun Jun 17 02:54:41 2001
From: msmith at labyrinth.net.au (Michael Smith)
Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 12:54:41 +1000
Subject: [icecast] reencoding mp3 as vorbis live
In-Reply-To: <200106161945.VAA24690@splat.grant.org>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010617125441.419fb970@mail.labyrinth.net.au>



At 09:45 PM 6/16/01 +0200, you wrote:
>What I want to do is put up an icecast 2 server streaming vorbis, but
>the original live stream is mp3.  It seems that I want to do something 
>like this (with all the options left out for clarity):
>
>	mpg123 | lame | something
>
>where the "something" is some command that sends the bits to icecast
>like ices.  Does such a thing exist for ogg/vorbis?  Is there a better 
>way to do this?

If you configure ices2 to use the 'stdinpcm' input module, then it'll do
this. You'll lose track boundaries, etc, though. It's a solution that 
works, but is too limited for real-world use, probably.

Michael

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From thomas at arkena.com  Mon Jun 18 08:16:52 2001
From: thomas at arkena.com (Thomas Kirk)
Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 10:16:52 +0200
Subject: [icecast] Ogg vorbistest stream up and running
In-Reply-To: <20010615154154.J9827@mmstreaming.dk>
Message-ID: <20010618101652.B20413@mmstreaming.dk>



On Fri, Jun 15, 2001 at 03:41:54PM +0200, Thomas Kirk wrote:

> I'll update the playlist as i get around to it ;-) 

Ive updated the channel with new albums. So fare it has been rock
stable :)


-- 
Venlig hilsen/Kind regards
Thomas Kirk
ARKENA
thomas at arkena.com
http://www.arkena.com

But I always fired into the nearest hill or, failing that, into blackness.
I meant no harm;  I just liked the explosions.  And I was careful never to
kill more than I could eat.
		-- Raoul Duke

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From nick at ivision.co.uk  Mon Jun 18 12:49:38 2001
From: nick at ivision.co.uk (Nick Ludlam)
Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 13:49:38 +0100
Subject: [icecast] Ogg vorbistest stream up and running
In-Reply-To: <20010618101652.B20413@mmstreaming.dk>
Message-ID: <016001c0f7f5$229963e0$29e119d4@office.ivision.co.ukivision.co.ukinstantweb.co.ukinstantweb.net>



From: "Thomas Kirk" <thomas at arkena.com>

> On Fri, Jun 15, 2001 at 03:41:54PM +0200, Thomas Kirk wrote:
> 
> > I'll update the playlist as i get around to it ;-) 
> 
> Ive updated the channel with new albums. So fare it has been rock
> stable :)

I've had this on in the office, and apart from some initial problems with
finding the right input plugin for winamp, it's been very good. Not any
fault of the streaming setup, it's the comparative youth of these Ogg streams.
Hope the bandwidth drain isn't too bad for you :)

What are the specs of the source box?

Nick


--
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From lists at lastonepicked.com  Mon Jun 18 15:16:45 2001
From: lists at lastonepicked.com (Hunter Hillegas)
Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 08:16:45 -0700
Subject: [icecast] ices 0.1.0 released
In-Reply-To: <x7bsnobken.fsf@speech.braille.uwo.ca>
Message-ID: <B753696C.1DDC1%lists@lastonepicked.com>



This happened to me... Though it was dying much quicker, about every 20
minutes.

I switched back to Icecast 1.0 and it went away.

Hunter

> From: Kirk Reiser <kirk at braille.uwo.ca>
> Reply-To: icecast at xiph.org
> Date: 16 Jun 2001 09:53:52 -0400
> To: icecast at xiph.org
> Subject: Re: [icecast] ices 0.1.0 released
> 
> I am having one slight weirdness which I haven't been able to put my
> finger on yet. About once every other day or so ices dies with an error
> about libshout not being able to reconnect to the server.  I am not
> sure who is guilty here ices or icecast.  Unfortunately it only
> happens rarely, twice so far, I'll let you folks know more if I can
> get a better handle on it.
> 
> Kirk

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From tygris at cablespeed.com  Mon Jun 18 22:22:10 2001
From: tygris at cablespeed.com (Kelly `STrRedWolf` Price)
Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 18:22:10 -0400
Subject: [icecast] Ogg vorbistest stream up and running
In-Reply-To: <016001c0f7f5$229963e0$29e119d4@office.ivision.co.ukivision.co.ukinstantweb.co.ukinstantweb.net>
Message-ID: <3B2E7F12.C0E0818A@cablespeed.com>



Nick Ludlam wrote:
> 
> I've had this on in the office, and apart from some initial problems with
> finding the right input plugin for winamp, it's been very good. Not any
> fault of the streaming setup, it's the comparative youth of these Ogg streams.
> Hope the bandwidth drain isn't too bad for you :)
> 

This may be an Vorbis question, but have they gotten the dynamic
downsizing working?  And can you force a particular bitrate in the
plugins?


-- 
eval join"",map{chomp;s/^.+>\s*//;$_}grep{/>/}<DATA>; __DATA__
      .'  .'     Kelly "STrRedWolf" Price -- WolfSkunk Designs
    xX  xX  .'            http://stalag99.keenspace.com
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 _____.   X" X      NO UNSOLICITED COMMERCIAL E-MAIL ACCEPTED
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From jack at icecast.org  Tue Jun 19 05:03:47 2001
From: jack at icecast.org (Jack Moffitt)
Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 23:03:47 -0600
Subject: [icecast] [xiphmont@xiph.org: [vorbis] Vorbis decoder 1.0 release candidate 1 in CVS]
Message-ID: <20010618230347.H23326@i.cantcode.com>



----- Forwarded message from Monty <xiphmont at xiph.org> -----

Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 01:02:02 -0400
To: vorbis at xiph.org, vorbis-dev at xiph.org
Subject: [vorbis] Vorbis decoder 1.0 release candidate 1 in CVS
From: xiphmont at xiph.org (Monty)

We're there.  The decode engine with all 1.0 features is finished and
in CVS, tagged as release candidate 1.  CVS mainline head and the
current nightly snapshot will get you the latest and greatest.

Next, we continue work toward rc1 of the encode side.

Monty

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From smoerk at gmx.de  Tue Jun 19 19:58:08 2001
From: smoerk at gmx.de (smoerk at gmx.de)
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 21:58:08 +0200
Subject: [icecast] 0stream 0.7.0
Message-ID: <20010619185826.EFB3718D016@motherfish.xiph.org>



hello,

there is a new release of ostream, which is a vorbis live streaming
software for windows. ostream encodes (with oggenc) and streams live
input from a soundcard to an icecast2 server. low bitrate and mono
streams are possible, multiple streams are also supported. mp3
streaming isn't available anymore.

http://radiostudio.org/ostream/

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From all at biosys.net  Tue Jun 19 21:24:24 2001
From: all at biosys.net (Asymmetric)
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 17:24:24 -0400
Subject: [icecast] one more try..
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010619172251.00b34398@wheresmymailserver.com>



asked once before and didn't get a reply, but it was probably lost in my 
back-and-forth with Jack.. where is the encrypted password support for 
icecast 1.3.10?

The documentation references a "mkpasswd.c" source file that doesn't exist 
anywhere in my icecast directory tree..

-------signature file-------
PGP Key Fingerprint:
446B 7718 B219 9F1E 43DD  8E4A 6BE9 D739 CCC5 7FD7

"I don't think [Linux] will be very successful in the long run."
"My experience and some of my friends' experience is that Linux is quite 
unreliable. Microsoft is really unreliable but Linux is worse."
-Ken Thompson, Interview May 1999.

http://www.freebsd.org
FreeBSD - The Power to Serve

http://www.rfnj.org
Radio Free New Jersey - 435 streams - 96kbps @ 44khz Stereo

http://namespace.org -- http://name.space
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From dennisd at best.com  Tue Jun 19 23:25:16 2001
From: dennisd at best.com (David Dennis)
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 16:25:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [icecast] one more try..
In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010619172251.00b34398@wheresmymailserver.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0106191621250.14136-100000@shell5.ba.best.com>



its just a common util that floats around the net.  everyones got it or
you can go to google and enter mkpasswd.c and turn up lots of hits.

or i got this from icecast CVS 1.1 you can cut it into a file, compile and
run.  note the freshness date :)
---------------------------->snip here, put in .c file, compile<---------
/* simple password generator by Nelson Minar (minar at reed.edu)
 * copyright 1991, all rights reserved.
 * You can use this code as long as my name stays with it.
 */

#include <stdio.h>
#include <stdlib.h>
#include <string.h>

#ifndef lint
static  char rcsid[] = "@(#)$Id: mkpasswd.c,v 1.1.1.1 1999/03/05 22:40:55
barath Exp $";
#endif

extern char *getpass();

int main(argc, argv)
int argc;
char *argv[];
{
  static char saltChars[] =
"abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ0123456789./";
  char salt[3];
  char * plaintext;
  int i;

  if (argc < 2) {
    srandom(time(0));		/* may not be the BEST salt, but its close */
    salt[0] = saltChars[random() % 64];
    salt[1] = saltChars[random() % 64];
    salt[2] = 0;
  }
  else {
    salt[0] = argv[1][0];
    salt[1] = argv[1][1];
    salt[2] = '\0';
    if ((strchr(saltChars, salt[0]) == NULL) || (strchr(saltChars,
salt[1]) == NULL))
      fprintf(stderr, "illegal salt %s\n", salt), exit(1);
  }

  plaintext = getpass("plaintext: ");

  printf("%s\n", crypt(plaintext, salt));
  return 0;
}

                        

On Tue, 19 Jun 2001, Asymmetric wrote:

> Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 17:24:24 -0400
> From: Asymmetric <all at biosys.net>
> Reply-To: icecast at xiph.org
> To: icecast at xiph.org
> Subject: [icecast] one more try..
> 
> asked once before and didn't get a reply, but it was probably lost in my 
> back-and-forth with Jack.. where is the encrypted password support for 
> icecast 1.3.10?
> 
> The documentation references a "mkpasswd.c" source file that doesn't exist 
> anywhere in my icecast directory tree..
> 
> -------signature file-------
> PGP Key Fingerprint:
> 446B 7718 B219 9F1E 43DD  8E4A 6BE9 D739 CCC5 7FD7
> 
> "I don't think [Linux] will be very successful in the long run."
> "My experience and some of my friends' experience is that Linux is quite 
> unreliable. Microsoft is really unreliable but Linux is worse."
> -Ken Thompson, Interview May 1999.
> 
> http://www.freebsd.org
> FreeBSD - The Power to Serve
> 
> http://www.rfnj.org
> Radio Free New Jersey - 435 streams - 96kbps @ 44khz Stereo
> 
> http://namespace.org -- http://name.space
> Resist the ICANN!  Support name.space!
> 
> 
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From all at biosys.net  Tue Jun 19 23:53:11 2001
From: all at biosys.net (Asymmetric)
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 19:53:11 -0400
Subject: [icecast] one more try..
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0106191621250.14136-100000@shell5.ba.best.co m>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010619195146.00b2ba78@rfnj.org>



At 16:25 6/19/2001 -0700, you wrote:
>its just a common util that floats around the net.  everyones got it or
>you can go to google and enter mkpasswd.c and turn up lots of hits.

Ahh thanks man.. I searched a bit around newsgroups and just saw some 
people having problems with it, but nothing on where to get it.. the 
comments said it should be in the source somewhere in the tarball, so I 
thought maybe it was being depreciated or something.

Take it easy.

-------signature file-------
PGP Key Fingerprint:
446B 7718 B219 9F1E 43DD  8E4A 6BE9 D739 CCC5 7FD7

"I don't think [Linux] will be very successful in the long run."
"My experience and some of my friends' experience is that Linux is quite 
unreliable. Microsoft is really unreliable but Linux is worse."
-Ken Thompson, Interview May 1999.

http://www.freebsd.org
FreeBSD - The Power to Serve

http://www.rfnj.org
Radio Free New Jersey - 435 streams - 96kbps @ 44khz Stereo

http://namespace.org -- http://name.space
Resist the ICANN!  Support name.space!

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From jack at icecast.org  Tue Jun 19 23:53:30 2001
From: jack at icecast.org (Jack Moffitt)
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 17:53:30 -0600
Subject: [icecast] one more try..
In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010619195146.00b2ba78@rfnj.org>
Message-ID: <20010619175330.A19801@i.cantcode.com>



> Ahh thanks man.. I searched a bit around newsgroups and just saw some 
> people having problems with it, but nothing on where to get it.. the 
> comments said it should be in the source somewhere in the tarball, so I 
> thought maybe it was being depreciated or something.

Next time to see something like this remember that most times crypt is a
system wide utility.  You can make a crypted password in _anything_ and
use it in anything else.

htpasswd from apache works.

passwd works, etc.

jack.

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From darrellb at hhcl.com  Thu Jun 21 16:20:24 2001
From: darrellb at hhcl.com (Darrell Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 17:20:24 +0100
Subject: [icecast] VBR on icecast?
Message-ID: <3B321EC8.98C1C605@hhcl.com>



is there anyway to stream VBR files using linux icecast server and shout
or similar streamer? i have a bunch of things encoded VBR by
audiocatalyst, and if i stream them via shout, there are lots of breaks
and dropouts...

orry if this is a FAQ, but it aint in the FAQ on the icecast site!

any ideas?

thx

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From jan at hundert6.de  Thu Jun 21 15:48:06 2001
From: jan at hundert6.de (jan at hundert6.de)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 15:48:06 -0000 (GMT)
Subject: [icecast] liveice problem
Message-ID: <XFMail.010621154806.jan@hundert6.de>



Hello everybody...

I figure this is not exactly an icecast question, but maybe
someone might be able to help. 

Icecast runs nicely as far as I can see, and so does liveice,
apart from the fact I don't get any input signal fed into it. I
think it's due to the fact it expects the signal on line in by
default and the souncard only has a mic in. So I tried to use
the built in mixer mode, which firstly bailed out since it was
lacking the seemingly required /playlist file. 

When I touched that, it dumped core instead :-%

Could anybody shed some light on what I should do best - get
another soundcard ...? 

System's FreeBSD 4.2 RELEASE, icecast from a cvsup'd ports tree
and liveice is the latest version available from the website. 

Cheers, Jan

-- 
Radio HUNDERT,6 Medien GmbH Berlin
- EDV -
j.muenther at radio.hundert6.de

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From matt at sprout.org  Thu Jun 21 16:03:23 2001
From: matt at sprout.org (Matt Boersma)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 10:03:23 -0600
Subject: [icecast] liveice problem
In-Reply-To: <XFMail.010621154806.jan@hundert6.de>
Message-ID: <01062110032302.05724@buzz.genomica.com>



On Thursday 21 June 2001 09:48 am, Jan wrote:

> Icecast runs nicely as far as I can see, and so does liveice,
> apart from the fact I don't get any input signal fed into it. I
> think it's due to the fact it expects the signal on line in by
> default and the souncard only has a mic in.

You shouldn't have to use liveice's mixer mode.  Just set SOUNDCARD and 
NO_MIXER, then use the "mixer" command (installed by default on my FreeBSD 
4.3 box) to select microphone as the recording input source.  The command 
line is like this:

mixer =rec mic

(I assume you've rebuilt the FreeBSD kernel so that you do have sound card 
support, and that you built the required device nodes as specified at
http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/sound.html ).

- Matt

(Check out KGNU Live at http://www.kgnu.org/ ).

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From jan at hundert6.de  Thu Jun 21 16:17:50 2001
From: jan at hundert6.de (jan at hundert6.de)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 16:17:50 -0000 (GMT)
Subject: [icecast] liveice problem
In-Reply-To: <01062110032302.05724@buzz.genomica.com>
Message-ID: <XFMail.010621161750.jan@hundert6.de>



Hello,

> The command 
> line is like this:
> mixer =rec mic

Thanks, I wasn't common with that directive, I only used to set
volume levels with 'mixer' ;)

> 
> (I assume you've rebuilt the FreeBSD kernel so that you do
> have sound card 
> support, and that you built the required device nodes as
> specified at

Well, erm, quite. Apart from the above lapsus I'm pretty common
with FreeBSD... ;)

Thanks, I'll try it right away. 

Bye, Jan

-- 
Radio HUNDERT,6 Medien GmbH Berlin
- EDV -
j.muenther at radio.hundert6.de

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From scott at myplay.com  Thu Jun 21 16:35:21 2001
From: scott at myplay.com (Scott Manley)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 09:35:21 -0700
Subject: [icecast] liveice problem
In-Reply-To: <XFMail.010621154806.jan@hundert6.de>
Message-ID: <3B322249.2755DA90@myplay.com>



jan at hundert6.de wrote:
> 
> Hello everybody...
> 
> I figure this is not exactly an icecast question, but maybe
> someone might be able to help.
> 
> Icecast runs nicely as far as I can see, and so does liveice,
> apart from the fact I don't get any input signal fed into it. I
> think it's due to the fact it expects the signal on line in by
> default and the souncard only has a mic in. So I tried to use
> the built in mixer mode, which firstly bailed out since it was
> lacking the seemingly required /playlist file.
> 
> When I touched that, it dumped core instead :-%
> 
> Could anybody shed some light on what I should do best - get
> another soundcard ...?
> 
> System's FreeBSD 4.2 RELEASE, icecast from a cvsup'd ports tree
> and liveice is the latest version available from the website.

Nononononono

Mixer mode is like a DJ setup with multiple input channels, faders and
speed control - so you can basically mix tracks using mp3 (it's actually
derived from mpegmixer which I wrote back in '95 and used layer 2 audio
- ancient history). To change your soundcard mixer setting just use an
external mixer application like xmixer - you don't sound like you're
going to need the internal mixer mode.


-- 
Scott Manley (AKA Szyzyg)
Streaming Media Hacker
www.myplay.com

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From scott at myplay.com  Thu Jun 21 16:35:21 2001
From: scott at myplay.com (Scott Manley)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 09:35:21 -0700
Subject: [icecast] liveice problem
In-Reply-To: <XFMail.010621154806.jan@hundert6.de>
Message-ID: <993139455.0000@hypermail.dummy>



jan at hundert6.de wrote:
> 
> Hello everybody...
> 
> I figure this is not exactly an icecast question, but maybe
> someone might be able to help.
> 
> Icecast runs nicely as far as I can see, and so does liveice,
> apart from the fact I don't get any input signal fed into it. I
> think it's due to the fact it expects the signal on line in by
> default and the souncard only has a mic in. So I tried to use
> the built in mixer mode, which firstly bailed out since it was
> lacking the seemingly required /playlist file.
> 
> When I touched that, it dumped core instead :-%
> 
> Could anybody shed some light on what I should do best - get
> another soundcard ...?
> 
> System's FreeBSD 4.2 RELEASE, icecast from a cvsup'd ports tree
> and liveice is the latest version available from the website.

Nononononono

Mixer mode is like a DJ setup with multiple input channels, faders and
speed control - so you can basically mix tracks using mp3 (it's actually
derived from mpegmixer which I wrote back in '95 and used layer 2 audio
- ancient history). To change your soundcard mixer setting just use an
external mixer application like xmixer - you don't sound like you're
going to need the internal mixer mode.


-- 
Scott Manley (AKA Szyzyg)
Streaming Media Hacker
www.myplay.com

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From jan at hundert6.de  Thu Jun 21 17:07:55 2001
From: jan at hundert6.de (jan at hundert6.de)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 17:07:55 -0000 (GMT)
Subject: [icecast] liveice problem
In-Reply-To: <3B322249.2755DA90@myplay.com>
Message-ID: <XFMail.010621170755.jan@hundert6.de>



> - ancient history). To change your soundcard mixer setting
> just use an
> external mixer application like xmixer - you don't sound like
> you're
> going to need the internal mixer mode.

Matt Boersma (thanks again) pointed me at it. It works like a
charm by now and my boss is satisfied :-%

Cheers, jan


-- 
Radio HUNDERT,6 Medien GmbH Berlin
- EDV -
j.muenther at radio.hundert6.de

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From matt at sprout.org  Thu Jun 21 20:37:24 2001
From: matt at sprout.org (Matt Boersma)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 14:37:24 -0600
Subject: [icecast] List archive search is broken.
Message-ID: <01062114372408.05724@buzz.genomica.com>



I'm not sure where else to send this--the search functionality at
http://www.xiph.org/archives/icecast/masterindex.html
has been broken ever since I've been on this list.  Icecast-dev seems to 
work, though.

Can some list member take a look at this, or let me know whom to contact?

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From mspiegel at sccs.swarthmore.edu  Thu Jun 21 23:14:10 2001
From: mspiegel at sccs.swarthmore.edu (Michael Spiegel)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 19:14:10 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [icecast] Trouble with LiveIce
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0106211907250.2987-100000@merlin.sccs.swarthmore.edu>



Hi Folks,

I'm having trouble getting liveice to work.  I have not figured out if I'm
supposed to pipe in the audio device(?) It's not working either way.

Here's what I see by running ./liveice :

playlist
0
Initialising Soundcard
16Bit 22050Hz Stereo
opening connection to localhost 8000
Attempting to Contact Server
connection successful: forking process
opening pipe!...
writing password

Over on the icecast side, I see "Accepted encoder on mountpoint /icy_0
from..."

Then I try to listen in, XMMS displays "Pre-Buffering: 0KB/32KB" and
remains in that state.

I appreciate any advice you might have.  Meager-budget college radio
stations are eternally grateful.

Cheers,

Michael Spiegel, '03
WSRN 91.5 FM
Swarthmore College Radio
500 College Ave.
Swarthmore, PA 19081
http://wsrn.swarthmore.edu

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From sene at cptec.inpe.br  Fri Jun 22 11:53:33 2001
From: sene at cptec.inpe.br (Denys Sene dos Santos)
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 08:53:33 -0300
Subject: [icecast] icecast newbie
Message-ID: <3B3331BB.88EFB8F8@cptec.inpe.br>



    Hello All,

    I'm a newbie in icecast and I'm trying to put it runnig nice,
(please, be patient with my english)
    I got it running with shout, with a big directory of mp3 in my
playlist,
but after few seconds of transmission it begins to fail. My mp3 files
are all 128 at 44. May be the bandwidth to low??
    Other question is how can I set a low stream to dial conections
of 56K with shout,  reducing the quality of my transmission to don't
get failure in transmission.
    I have problems with liveice that can change de sample_rate. I got
the Lame 3.70 and compiled it with sucess. I moved the binary "lame"
to /usr/local/bin/lame. But the liveice, with USE_LAME3 stops at :

/usr/local/icecast/etc/playlist
1
opening connection to localhost 8000
Attempting to Contact Server
connection successful: forking process

    And don't proceed.
    What's the problem??? I'm sure that the lame binary
is at /usr/local/bin and running ok. The mpg123 too.

    Thank you very much, and I'm sorry for my poor english.


--
 _____________________________________________________________________
 \_
   \  Denys Sene dos Santos  -  sene at cptec.inpe.br
  o/\_  http://www1.cptec.inpe.br/~sene/  -  ICQ #31845401
 <\__,\  Divis?o de Supercomputa??o - Tel:(012)560-8458
  ">.  |  Centro de Previsao de Tempo e Estudos Climaticos - CPTEC
   ` .-|  Instituto Nacional de Pesquisas Espaciais - MCT/INPE
      . \  A happy Linux User #71117
       . \
        .-|

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From xiphmont at xiph.org  Sat Jun 23 20:42:57 2001
From: xiphmont at xiph.org (Monty)
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 16:42:57 -0400
Subject: OGG encoder, was: Re: [icecast] [thomas@arkena.com: [vorbis] mp3pro  and the mp3 streaming license]
In-Reply-To: <20010610033509.20921.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net>
Message-ID: <20010623164257.V333@xiph.org>



On Sat, Jun 09, 2001 at 08:35:09PM -0700, k_myers at kyxpyx.com wrote:
> Red alert people.
> 
> When ogg starts to make money for someone (whoever if anyone at all,) then the boys in the legal team at Fraunhofer will throw something at it in the form of "hey, you are stepping on our IP" and then sue. Until then, what is the point. So....

I'm not as convinced.  The possibility exists, of course, but that's
not Thomson's reputation.  Dolby, M$ and Kobe are bigger worries than
FhG/Thomson.

Monty

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From xiphmont at xiph.org  Sat Jun 23 20:00:25 2001
From: xiphmont at xiph.org (Monty)
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 16:00:25 -0400
Subject: [icecast] The list rejects HTML email: A reminder
Message-ID: <20010623160025.M333@xiph.org>



Time for a reminder to the list recipients...

The list server rejects HTML-foramtted email.  This is done on
purpose.  Any HTML-ized submissions it sees will be silently dropped
on the floor.  It doesn't cause any trouble; this is not a reprimand
of any kind, just a reminder.

If you've sent messages in the recent past that have never appeared on
the list, chec to make sure all email you send is *plain text*.

Thanks,

Monty

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From dave at jetcafe.org  Sun Jun 24 08:51:05 2001
From: dave at jetcafe.org (Dave Hayes)
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 01:51:05 -0700
Subject: [icecast] Gain control
Message-ID: <200106240851.BAA02770@hokkshideh.jetcafe.org>



How are people doing gain control, out of curiosity? 

I know boxes exist (anyone have names and mfrs?) that ride the gain
for big radio stations, ensuring that there is no distortion and
raising the volume of songs recorded at a lower volume. I'd probably
buy one if I knew what to buy.
------
Dave Hayes - Consultant - Altadena CA, USA - dave at jetcafe.org 
Now Playing at:  http://music.jetcafe.org:8000
>>> The opinions expressed above are entirely my own <<<

                    It will pass, whatever it is.

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From pozar at lns.com  Sun Jun 24 16:21:17 2001
From: pozar at lns.com (Tim Pozar)
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 09:21:17 -0700
Subject: [icecast] Gain control
In-Reply-To: <200106240851.BAA02770@hokkshideh.jetcafe.org>
Message-ID: <20010624092117.B8542@lns.com>



On Sun, Jun 24, 2001 at 01:51:05AM -0700, Dave Hayes wrote:
> How are people doing gain control, out of curiosity? 
> 
> I know boxes exist (anyone have names and mfrs?) that ride the gain
> for big radio stations, ensuring that there is no distortion and
> raising the volume of songs recorded at a lower volume. I'd probably
> buy one if I knew what to buy.

This is a bit tricky and subjective.

If you are doing streaming and broadcast, some considerations you
will have are:

        * Brick wall filtering to prevent "all ones" distortion

        * Soft limiting and compression for increased loudness

        * AGC to reduce dynamic range to keep the music above
          ambient noise (ie. office and car locations.)

If you are just doing streaming and don't care about loudness or
limiting dynamic range, you just need a smart clipper/limiter of
some sort.  My favorite is the Aphex Dominator.  I have been using
them for a bit more than 10 years for processing before A/D converters
like Sony F1s and later DAT machines.  The Dominator does a great
job of limiting those occasional nasty peaks (pops, clicks, feedback,
etc.) without sounding like it is punching holes in the audio.
The audio stays pretty "transparent" sounding.

If you are in a loudness war (ie. broadcasting) and/or concerned
about dynamic range you need some sort of AGC-compressor-soft
limiter combination.  Aphex happens to make another favorite unit
for this called the "Compellor".  It isn't as aggressive as other
processors such as Bob Orban's, or Frank Foti's boxes but it is
"transparent" with good AGC and some loudness.

Both the Dominator and Compellor can be found popping up on Ebay
at least once every couple of weeks.  Try to get the "Mark 2"
versions of each unit.  The Compellor model 320 is their second
generation unit.  If you are doing FM broadcasting, you need to
get the dominator that support "pre-emphasis" such as the "722".
I have picked up 320s for about $400 and the Dominators go for
about $600.

Of course Aphex will sell you their "combo" unit the "2020" for
about $5K retail.

If you want something cheaper (and of course not as good sounding)
there are a couple of companies that build "compressor/limiters"
boxes that run in the $150 range.  The Alesis "3630" or the Behringer
"Composer Pro MDX2200" can do the job of hard/soft limiting and
even some AGC/compression so long as you don't push them too much.

If you are interested in a "how to" of setting up your new processing,
drop me a line.

Tim

--
  Snail: Tim Pozar / LNS / 1978 45th Ave / San Francisco CA 94116 / USA
               POTS: +1 415 665 3790  Radio: KC6GNJ / KAE6247
"It's a damn poor mind that can only think of one way to spell a word."
                        - Andrew Jackson
"What is wanted is not the will to believe, but the will to find out,
which is the exact opposite." - Bertrand Russell, "Skeptical_Essays"

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From gshang at uq.net.au  Sun Jun 24 16:57:16 2001
From: gshang at uq.net.au (Geoff Shang)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 02:57:16 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [icecast] Re: icecast2 core dump
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.32.0106242336310.23993-100000@data.home>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.32.0106250133060.23993-100000@data.home>



On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, Geoff Shang wrote (to icecast-dev):

> Hi all:
>
> I checked out icecast2 from bitkeeper (man I hate that program ... why are
> we using it anyway?  and how do you do an update?).  I checked it out
> sometime in the first week of June.  It's run happily since June 8, day in
> and day out ... until 18:34 EDT yesterday when it dumped core.  GDB has the
> following not-so-helpful things to say about it:
>
> (gdb) core-file core
> Core was generated by `./ice2 -c ./ice2.xml'.
> Program terminated with signal 11, Segmentation fault.
> #0  0x4012b9fe in ?? ()
> (gdb) where
> #0  0x4012b9fe in ?? ()
> #1  0x804d00b in ?? ()
> #2  0x804ef02 in ?? ()
> #3  0x40083c9f in ?? ()
>
> Is there anything else I can do to help troubleshoot this?  I know I'd had
> a lot of connects.  Maybe some quantity was significant?  there's no log
> entries immediately before the dump.  I know one guy was going to try
> testing it but don't know if he did or not and now of course I can't see
> the stats.xml (can I?).

Found the cause.  And this is why I'm crossposting it, so that those
running icecast2 can avoid it.

My friend tried to connect to an already existing mountpoint and it core
dumped as shown above.  We were able to duplicate this problem.

So be sure to check <A HREF="http://<server">http://<server</A>>:<port>/stats.xml to see what mounts are
active before trying a connect or you may well knock the server over.

I should stress that I checked out ice2 around 3 weeks ago so this *might*
have already been fixed.

Oh and for anyone looking for my stream at
http://bumpy.braille.uwo.ca:9000/test.ogg (22khz mono, around 32kbps), it's
now back online.  I noticed people have been tuning in.  Thanks and enjoy!

Geoff.

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From wildbill at kpig.com  Mon Jun 25 04:20:07 2001
From: wildbill at kpig.com (William Goldsmith)
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 21:20:07 -0700
Subject: [icecast] Gain control
In-Reply-To: <20010624092117.B8542@lns.com>
Message-ID: <0ab201c0fd2e$1f414cb0$6800000a@bill>



Excellent overview, Tim (as I'd expect - you da man when it comes to
broadcast processing :-).  I'd 2nd your recommendation on the Behringer
unit - for the price it just can't be beat & it sounds quite decent. I'm
using them on Radio Paradise, KPIG, & SmoothJazz.com.

I'd also recommend a *nix audio processing software app called ecasound. It
has an awesome agc/limiter patch - easily piped into the chain on an encoder
box. A bit CPU-intensive, but very smooth. I'm using it on Radio Paradise
(www.radioparadise.com) ahead of the Behringer.

-bg

> On Sun, Jun 24, 2001 at 01:51:05AM -0700, Dave Hayes wrote:
> > How are people doing gain control, out of curiosity?
> >
> > I know boxes exist (anyone have names and mfrs?) that ride the gain
> > for big radio stations, ensuring that there is no distortion and
> > raising the volume of songs recorded at a lower volume. I'd probably
> > buy one if I knew what to buy.
>
> This is a bit tricky and subjective.
>
> If you are doing streaming and broadcast, some considerations you
> will have are:
>
> * Brick wall filtering to prevent "all ones" distortion
>
> * Soft limiting and compression for increased loudness
>
> * AGC to reduce dynamic range to keep the music above
>   ambient noise (ie. office and car locations.)
>
> If you are just doing streaming and don't care about loudness or
> limiting dynamic range, you just need a smart clipper/limiter of
> some sort.  My favorite is the Aphex Dominator.  I have been using
> them for a bit more than 10 years for processing before A/D converters
> like Sony F1s and later DAT machines.  The Dominator does a great
> job of limiting those occasional nasty peaks (pops, clicks, feedback,
> etc.) without sounding like it is punching holes in the audio.
> The audio stays pretty "transparent" sounding.
>
> If you are in a loudness war (ie. broadcasting) and/or concerned
> about dynamic range you need some sort of AGC-compressor-soft
> limiter combination.  Aphex happens to make another favorite unit
> for this called the "Compellor".  It isn't as aggressive as other
> processors such as Bob Orban's, or Frank Foti's boxes but it is
> "transparent" with good AGC and some loudness.
>
> Both the Dominator and Compellor can be found popping up on Ebay
> at least once every couple of weeks.  Try to get the "Mark 2"
> versions of each unit.  The Compellor model 320 is their second
> generation unit.  If you are doing FM broadcasting, you need to
> get the dominator that support "pre-emphasis" such as the "722".
> I have picked up 320s for about $400 and the Dominators go for
> about $600.
>
> Of course Aphex will sell you their "combo" unit the "2020" for
> about $5K retail.
>
> If you want something cheaper (and of course not as good sounding)
> there are a couple of companies that build "compressor/limiters"
> boxes that run in the $150 range.  The Alesis "3630" or the Behringer
> "Composer Pro MDX2200" can do the job of hard/soft limiting and
> even some AGC/compression so long as you don't push them too much.
>
> If you are interested in a "how to" of setting up your new processing,
> drop me a line.
>
> Tim
> --
>   Snail: Tim Pozar / LNS / 1978 45th Ave / San Francisco CA 94116 / USA
>                POTS: +1 415 665 3790  Radio: KC6GNJ / KAE6247
> "It's a damn poor mind that can only think of one way to spell a word."
>                         - Andrew Jackson
> "What is wanted is not the will to believe, but the will to find out,
> which is the exact opposite." - Bertrand Russell, "Skeptical_Essays"
>
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'icecast-request at xiph.org'
> containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body.  No subject is needed.
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>

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From jack at xiph.org  Mon Jun 25 04:20:45 2001
From: jack at xiph.org (Jack Moffitt)
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 22:20:45 -0600
Subject: [icecast] Re: Stallman @ NYU
In-Reply-To: <m2snheej9a.fsf@maya.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <20010624222045.C3731@i.cantcode.com>



> Where it does get termed GNU/Linux, as with Debian, an immediate
> pressure arises to make it _exclusively_ GNU/Linux and prevent the
> distribution of non-FSF-approved open source material.

I think you're reaching to say that GNU/Linux is what caused Debian's
insistence on Freedom.  That was there before there was a debate about
GNU/Linux.

I think RMS has a valid point.  Quite a bit of what we think of as
operating system level software, is under the GPL and/or was made by the
FSF under the auspices of the GNU project.  Certainly many of the major
applications.

And you also have a valid point.  It's possible not every Linux-kernel
based distribution is a GNU/Linux.  But I think it's not unreasonable to
claim that a lot are.  Certainly there exist now systems that are
GNU/Hurd, and probably someday we'll see a GNU/Darwin.

jack.

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From jack at xiph.org  Mon Jun 25 04:24:22 2001
From: jack at xiph.org (Jack Moffitt)
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 22:24:22 -0600
Subject: [icecast] reencode scripts if anyone is interested
In-Reply-To: <001001c0e9be$50ad0bf0$0201a8c0@dreamtime>
Message-ID: <20010624222422.D3731@i.cantcode.com>



>     I decided to make a few shell scripts that can be used to connect to
> icecast, decode/reencode a stream, and then send the result back to icecast.
> 
>     I guess this can be done with liveice, but this seemed like a simpler
> solution for my needs. I have it triggered by a cgi script that i click on
> when at work and want to listen to my tunes at a lower, more reliable
> bitrate.

I often plug these kinds of scripts on IRC, and jwz has made his own
available that power dnalounge.com.  You can find them at:

http://www.dnalounge.com/backstage/src/

Choice is always good.

Brendan, weren't you thinking of adding this to ices :)

jack.

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From brendan at icecast.org  Mon Jun 25 04:45:02 2001
From: brendan at icecast.org (Brendan Cully)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 00:45:02 -0400
Subject: [icecast] reencode scripts if anyone is interested
In-Reply-To: <20010624222422.D3731@i.cantcode.com>
Message-ID: <20010625004502.C29705@xanadu.kublai.com>



On Sunday, 24 June 2001 at 22:24, Jack Moffitt wrote:
> >     I decided to make a few shell scripts that can be used to connect to
> > icecast, decode/reencode a stream, and then send the result back to icecast.
> > 
> >     I guess this can be done with liveice, but this seemed like a simpler
> > solution for my needs. I have it triggered by a cgi script that i click on
> > when at work and want to listen to my tunes at a lower, more reliable
> > bitrate.
> 
> I often plug these kinds of scripts on IRC, and jwz has made his own
> available that power dnalounge.com.  You can find them at:
> 
> http://www.dnalounge.com/backstage/src/
> 
> Choice is always good.
> 
> Brendan, weren't you thinking of adding this to ices :)

I was, and then I did. :)

It's in CVS now. I'm doing some cleanup over the next few days and
expect to have a "development" version ready by the end of next
week. It's changed too much to be released as 0.1.1, both in terms of
new features and lack of testing...

For the curious, here's the stuff I've done so far:

* Reencode the same playlist at different bitrates/sample
  frequencies/channels simultaneously for different mountpoints. Just
  add multiple stream sections to the config file or use multiple -m
  options on the command line.

* Read vorbis files and reencode them as MP3 - if you've got the CPU,
  you don't have to wait for your listeners to catch up, you can start
  storing your music as vorbis now. ices even parses vorbis comments
  for title streaming.

* Proper FIFO handling - including reencoding. The only thing you lack
  (obviously) is ID3 parsing.

* A new function for the playlists, get_metadata, which lets playlists
  set the title stream for each track if, say, you have better
  information in a database than in your ID3s. Also you no longer are
  required to define any functions but get_next.

* If ices receives SIGUSR1 it will skip to the next track in the playlist.

* Build system improvements.

* A man page. :)

Future plans include sending different streams to different servers
(not just different mountpoints), and handling PCM/WAV input...

-Brendan

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From msmith at labyrinth.net.au  Mon Jun 25 05:23:48 2001
From: msmith at labyrinth.net.au (Michael Smith)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:23:48 +1000
Subject: [icecast] reencode scripts if anyone is interested
In-Reply-To: <20010625004502.C29705@xanadu.kublai.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010625152348.007bcb80@mail.labyrinth.net.au>



>Future plans include sending different streams to different servers
>(not just different mountpoints), and handling PCM/WAV input...

Hey, you're taking over all the plans for ices2, damn you! :-)
Actually, ices2 does much of this already. I want to add mp3->vorbis
transcoding some time soon. What's a good mp3 decoder to use for that?

Michael

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From brendan at icecast.org  Mon Jun 25 05:24:36 2001
From: brendan at icecast.org (Brendan Cully)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 01:24:36 -0400
Subject: [icecast] reencode scripts if anyone is interested
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010625152348.007bcb80@mail.labyrinth.net.au>
Message-ID: <20010625012436.E29705@xanadu.kublai.com>



On Monday, 25 June 2001 at 15:23, Michael Smith wrote:
> 
> >Future plans include sending different streams to different servers
> >(not just different mountpoints), and handling PCM/WAV input...
> 
> Hey, you're taking over all the plans for ices2, damn you! :-)

any more good ideas I may have missed? ;)

> Actually, ices2 does much of this already. I want to add mp3->vorbis
> transcoding some time soon. What's a good mp3 decoder to use for that?

I think lame and xmms both use the mpg123 engine. The xmms plugin
seems to handle odd MP3s a bit better than mpg123 or LAME, so I'd
probably think about stealing that one. But now I'm thinking there
must be some nice multiformat audio library around to decode most
things into PCM... will look around.

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From jack at xiph.org  Mon Jun 25 05:27:01 2001
From: jack at xiph.org (Jack Moffitt)
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 23:27:01 -0600
Subject: [icecast] reencode scripts if anyone is interested
In-Reply-To: <20010625012436.E29705@xanadu.kublai.com>
Message-ID: <20010624232701.F3731@i.cantcode.com>



> I think lame and xmms both use the mpg123 engine. The xmms plugin
> seems to handle odd MP3s a bit better than mpg123 or LAME, so I'd
> probably think about stealing that one. But now I'm thinking there
> must be some nice multiformat audio library around to decode most
> things into PCM... will look around.

mpg123 is awful.  there are exit(-1)s in the middle of the library.

xmms has a fork of mpg123 that is intimately tied to xmms.  also
probably not workable.

i believe teh current 'favorite' librarized mpeg decoder is libmad.
supposedly it's clean and works well.

if you're going to use mpg123, i'd at least use lame. :)

jack.

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From david at neongoat.com  Mon Jun 25 06:36:58 2001
From: david at neongoat.com (David Parker)
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 23:36:58 -0700
Subject: [icecast] reencode scripts if anyone is interested
In-Reply-To: <20010625012436.E29705@xanadu.kublai.com>
Message-ID: <002301c0fd41$3dce3680$1276a8c0@ruckus>



> probably think about stealing that one. But now I'm thinking there
> must be some nice multiformat audio library around to decode most
> things into PCM... will look around.

Check out GStreamer @ http://gstreamer.net. So far I've just read the docs and
haven't actually coded with it yet, but it seems infinitely customizable and
supports a bunch of codecs :)

David

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From amgorb at ttk.ru  Mon Jun 25 07:30:50 2001
From: amgorb at ttk.ru (Andrei Mikhaltsov)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 11:30:50 +0400
Subject: [icecast] dummy question
In-Reply-To: <20010624232701.F3731@i.cantcode.com>
Message-ID: <2479.010625@ttk.ru>



Hello people.

Umm.. sorry for bothering you, but i have some stupid question ;P

icecast dont want to compile on my systems, i've tried linux slackware
7.0, kernels 2.4.0,(1)(4) and icecast version 1.3.10, it gives me
following errors:

10:29:30:~/radio/icecast-1.3.10/$ make
make  all-recursive
make[1]: Entering directory `/root/radio/icecast-1.3.10'
Making all in src
make[2]: Entering directory `/root/radio/icecast-1.3.10/src'
Making all in authenticate
make[3]: Entering directory `/root/radio/icecast-1.3.10/src/authenticate'
make[3]: Nothing to be done for `all'.
make[3]: Leaving directory `/root/radio/icecast-1.3.10/src/authenticate'
make[3]: Entering directory `/root/radio/icecast-1.3.10/src'
gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I.. -D_REENTRANT      -g -O2 -Wall -c main.c
main.c: In function `increase_maximum_number_of_open_files':
main.c:193: storage size of `before' isn't known
main.c:193: storage size of `after' isn't known
main.c:195: warning: implicit declaration of function `getrlimit'
main.c:195: `RLIMIT_NOFILE' undeclared (first use in this function)
main.c:195: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
main.c:195: for each function it appears in.)
main.c:206: warning: implicit declaration of function `setrlimit'
main.c:193: warning: unused variable `after'
main.c:193: warning: unused variable `before'
main.c: In function `clean_shutdown':
main.c:547: warning: type defaults to `int' in declaration of `main_shutting_down'
make[3]: *** [main.o] Error 1
make[3]: Leaving directory `/root/radio/icecast-1.3.10/src'
make[2]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
make[2]: Leaving directory `/root/radio/icecast-1.3.10/src'
make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
make[1]: Leaving directory `/root/radio/icecast-1.3.10'
make: *** [all-recursive-am] Error 2

And by the way ices, compiled and worked successful.
Can you post the list of requied libs or something?? Or just point me
where i should dig to solve this.


-- 
Best regards,
 Andrei                            mailto:amgorb at ttk.ru

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From thomas at urgent.rug.ac.be  Mon Jun 25 09:22:25 2001
From: thomas at urgent.rug.ac.be (Thomas Vander Stichele)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 11:22:25 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [icecast] reencode scripts if anyone is interested
In-Reply-To: <002301c0fd41$3dce3680$1276a8c0@ruckus>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10106251121030.23062-100000@urgent.rug.ac.be>



> > probably think about stealing that one. But now I'm thinking there
> > must be some nice multiformat audio library around to decode most
> > things into PCM... will look around.
> 
> Check out GStreamer @ http://gstreamer.net. So far I've just read the docs and
> haven't actually coded with it yet, but it seems infinitely customizable and
> supports a bunch of codecs :)

I've plugged gstreamer before here and I'll second that.  I've been
working with it for the past three months and it's a great framework.
Still heavily under development but IMO that's a good thing.   There's
support for mpeg, vorbis, icecast, wavs, and a whole bunch of other stuff,
and I'm writing mixer, audiofile, and gating plugins for it.  If you have
the time, check it out and go through some of the docs to get a taste of
what it is capable of.

Thomas

<-*-                      -*->
If your heart is not on my side
You're not on my side
<-*- thomas at apestaart.org -*->
URGent, the best radio on the Internet - 24/7 ! - http://urgent.rug.ac.be/

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From andrew at baselbiet.ch  Mon Jun 25 09:26:09 2001
From: andrew at baselbiet.ch (Andreas Gunzenhauser)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 11:26:09 +0200
Subject: [icecast] looking for professional icecast/unix developer services
Message-ID: <001f01c0fd58$df22e7d0$0362e6c2@baselbiet.ch>



Hello

I'm looking for a place where I can hire experienced engineers on a hourly
or
fixed price basis for a prototype project using icecast/IceS
on Debian Linux.

Anybody got some idea where to find that ?

thanks in advance,

andrew

---------------------------------------------------------------
Creative Solutions GmbH
"Websites, die mehr sind als ein Name mit einem Punkt dahinter"

Gerbeg?sslein 1
CH-4450 Sissach
Telefon: (+41) (0)61 971 87 37
Fax: (+41) (0) 61 973 91 73

http://www.creative-solutions.ch

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From scott at myplay.com  Mon Jun 25 14:05:16 2001
From: scott at myplay.com (Scott Manley)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 07:05:16 -0700
Subject: [icecast] Gain control
In-Reply-To: <200106240851.BAA02770@hokkshideh.jetcafe.org>
Message-ID: <3B37451C.BDE73D5D@myplay.com>



Dave Hayes wrote:
> 
> How are people doing gain control, out of curiosity?
> 
> I know boxes exist (anyone have names and mfrs?) that ride the gain
> for big radio stations, ensuring that there is no distortion and
> raising the volume of songs recorded at a lower volume. I'd probably
> buy one if I knew what to buy.

That's called a compressor, I use a $150 Behringer compressor whenever I
DJ, that then runs into my recording system/amp (it's good with an amp
since it makes you louder than you would otherwise be).


-- 
Scott Manley (AKA Szyzyg)
Streaming Media Hacker
www.myplay.com

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From david at neongoat.com  Mon Jun 25 18:17:05 2001
From: david at neongoat.com (David Parker)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 11:17:05 -0700
Subject: [icecast] icecast newbie
In-Reply-To: <3B3331BB.88EFB8F8@cptec.inpe.br>
Message-ID: <000d01c0fda3$0ae43b40$1276a8c0@ruckus>



> but after few seconds of transmission it begins to fail. My mp3 files
> are all 128 at 44. May be the bandwidth to low??

It could be, is your listening client on the same network, or is it over the
internet? How fast is the connection between the icecast server and the
listening client?

It also could be because of a known bug in shout. Don't use shout. Use ices.
Shout hasn't been maintained for ages, and ices has taken its place (and is
more featureful).

>     Other question is how can I set a low stream to dial conections
> of 56K with shout,  reducing the quality of my transmission to don't
> get failure in transmission.

Ices does this.

>     I have problems with liveice that can change de sample_rate. I got
> the Lame 3.70 and compiled it with sucess. I moved the binary "lame"
> to /usr/local/bin/lame. But the liveice, with USE_LAME3 stops at :
>
> /usr/local/icecast/etc/playlist
> 1
> opening connection to localhost 8000
> Attempting to Contact Server
> connection successful: forking process

Liveice is very picky during the startup phase. Make sure you have read/write
access to the soundcard you specified, there are no extra spaces in the
liveice config file at the end of lines, and your soundcard can support the
sample rate/channels that you told it to use. Also try changing the config
setting to half-duplex if it's set to full-duplex. If all that fails, try
"rm -rf /PATH/TO/LIVEICE/.liveice_temp_files".

David

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From sene at cptec.inpe.br  Mon Jun 25 18:41:55 2001
From: sene at cptec.inpe.br (Denys Sene dos Santos)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:41:55 -0300
Subject: [icecast] icecast newbie
In-Reply-To: <000d01c0fda3$0ae43b40$1276a8c0@ruckus>
Message-ID: <3B3785F2.C9346543@cptec.inpe.br>



    Thanks to All...

    Now, I started to use Ices.
    Thank you very much!

David Parker wrote:

> > but after few seconds of transmission it begins to fail. My mp3 files
> > are all 128 at 44. May be the bandwidth to low??
>
> It could be, is your listening client on the same network, or is it over the
> internet? How fast is the connection between the icecast server and the
> listening client?
>
> It also could be because of a known bug in shout. Don't use shout. Use ices.
> Shout hasn't been maintained for ages, and ices has taken its place (and is
> more featureful).
>
> >     Other question is how can I set a low stream to dial conections
> > of 56K with shout,  reducing the quality of my transmission to don't
> > get failure in transmission.
>
> Ices does this.
>
> >     I have problems with liveice that can change de sample_rate. I got
> > the Lame 3.70 and compiled it with sucess. I moved the binary "lame"
> > to /usr/local/bin/lame. But the liveice, with USE_LAME3 stops at :
> >
> > /usr/local/icecast/etc/playlist
> > 1
> > opening connection to localhost 8000
> > Attempting to Contact Server
> > connection successful: forking process
>
> Liveice is very picky during the startup phase. Make sure you have read/write
> access to the soundcard you specified, there are no extra spaces in the
> liveice config file at the end of lines, and your soundcard can support the
> sample rate/channels that you told it to use. Also try changing the config
> setting to half-duplex if it's set to full-duplex. If all that fails, try
> "rm -rf /PATH/TO/LIVEICE/.liveice_temp_files".
>
> David
>
> -------
> david at neongoat.com
> www.neongoat.com
> PGP Key ID/Fingerprint:
> 0xF90FFFE5 / F362 51F7 6D51 85EB AF68 75B9 D29B 1AFC F90F FFE5
> -------
>
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--
 _____________________________________________________________________
 \_
   \  Denys Sene dos Santos  -  sene at cptec.inpe.br
  o/\_  http://www1.cptec.inpe.br/~sene/  -  ICQ #31845401
 <\__,\  Divis?o de Supercomputa??o - Tel:(012)560-8458
  ">.  |  Centro de Previsao de Tempo e Estudos Climaticos - CPTEC
   ` .-|  Instituto Nacional de Pesquisas Espaciais - MCT/INPE
      . \  A happy Linux User #71117
       . \
        .-|

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From mspiegel at sccs.swarthmore.edu  Tue Jun 26 02:32:44 2001
From: mspiegel at sccs.swarthmore.edu (Michael Spiegel)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 22:32:44 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [icecast] Trouble with LiveIce
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0106252228080.26133-100000@merlin.sccs.swarthmore.edu>



Hi Folks,

I'm having the weirdest trouble with liveice.  When I start it up with the
correct servername, it grinds to a halt with these messages:

playlist
0
Initialising Soundcard
16Bit 22050Hz Stereo
opening connection to localhost 8000
Attempting to Contact Server
connection successful: forking process
opening pipe!...
writing password   

Then it waits there.  Now, when I tried it with a bogus servername,
liveice starts working.  Of course, it's not sending me stream
anywhere! Why is this happening?

Here are the messages:

Attempting to Contact Server
oops...some problem connecting, disabling stream
Setting Up Interface
Soundcard Reopened for Encoding

etc, etc.

Thanks greatly,

-Michael Spiegel, '03
WSRN 91.5 FM
Swarthmore College Radio
500 College Ave.
Swarthmore, PA 19081

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From darrellb at hhcl.com  Tue Jun 26 12:20:26 2001
From: darrellb at hhcl.com (Darrell Berry)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 13:20:26 +0100
Subject: [icecast] ices...mount points (and a LAME question)
In-Reply-To: <005c01c0fde8$f3098020$0201a8c0@boysenberry>
Message-ID: <3B387E0A.2000705@hhcl.com>



hi

don't know if i'm missing something, but how do i name mount points 
using ices?

i assumed this was specified in the

<ices:Stream>
    <ices:Name></ices:Name>
</ices:Stream>

chunk

but whatever i put in there, icecast tells me that my stream is going to 
/ices

(according to the output from configure/make, xml is being properly 
compiled it)


---

...ALSO, a LAME question...I have successfully built LAME, but am not 
quite sure which libs/headers etc to put where to get ices happy to work 
with it...?

thnx

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From darrellb at hhcl.com  Tue Jun 26 12:59:41 2001
From: darrellb at hhcl.com (Darrell Berry)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 13:59:41 +0100
Subject: [icecast] more on building with lame
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0106252228080.26133-100000@merlin.sccs.swarthmore.edu>
Message-ID: <3B38873D.8060703@hhcl.com>



hmmm

ok, more details

using lame3.87beta
using ices-0.1.0

on RH7.1

lame seems to install properly

[root at machine200 lame3.87]# make install
/usr/bin/install -c lame /usr/bin
/usr/bin/install -c lame.h /usr/include
/usr/bin/install -c libmp3lame.a /usr/lib
/usr/bin/install -c libmp3lame.so.1.0 /usr/lib
(cd /usr/lib && ln -s libmp3lame.so.1.0 libmp3lame.so.1)
(cd /usr/lib && ln -s libmp3lame.so.1 libmp3lame.so)

but when i try and build ices

./configure --with-lame-libraries=/usr/lib 
--with-lame-includes=/usr/include

i get

checking for lame/lame.h... (cached) no
checking for lame.h... (cached) no
configure: error: Could not find a valid LAME library installation

any ideas?

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From sene at cptec.inpe.br  Tue Jun 26 12:33:51 2001
From: sene at cptec.inpe.br (Denys Sene dos Santos)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 09:33:51 -0300
Subject: [icecast] more on building with lame
In-Reply-To: <3B38873D.8060703@hhcl.com>
Message-ID: <3B38812F.C23F9C5@cptec.inpe.br>



    # rm config.cache
    #./configure ...

Darrell Berry wrote:

> i get
>
> checking for lame/lame.h... (cached) no
> checking for lame.h... (cached) no
> configure: error: Could not find a valid LAME library installation
>
> any ideas?
>


--
 _____________________________________________________________________
 \_
   \  Denys Sene dos Santos  -  sene at cptec.inpe.br
  o/\_  http://www1.cptec.inpe.br/~sene/  -  ICQ #31845401
 <\__,\  Divis?o de Supercomputa??o - Tel:(012)560-8458
  ">.  |  Centro de Previsao de Tempo e Estudos Climaticos - CPTEC
   ` .-|  Instituto Nacional de Pesquisas Espaciais - MCT/INPE
      . \  A happy Linux User #71117
       . \
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From darrellb at hhcl.com  Tue Jun 26 14:51:31 2001
From: darrellb at hhcl.com (Darrell Berry)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 15:51:31 +0100
Subject: [icecast] more on building with lame
In-Reply-To: <3B38812F.C23F9C5@cptec.inpe.br>
Message-ID: <3B38A173.1000803@hhcl.com>



nope, already done that, any other ideas?

Denys Sene dos Santos wrote:

>     # rm config.cache
>     #./configure ...
> 
> Darrell Berry wrote:
> 
> 
>> i get
>> 
>> checking for lame/lame.h... (cached) no
>> checking for lame.h... (cached) no
>> configure: error: Could not find a valid LAME library installation
>> 
>> any ideas?
>> 
> 
> 
> --
>  _____________________________________________________________________
>  \_
>    \  Denys Sene dos Santos  -  sene at cptec.inpe.br
>   o/\_  http://www1.cptec.inpe.br/~sene/  -  ICQ #31845401
>  <\__,\  Divis?o de Supercomputa??o - Tel:(012)560-8458
>   ">.  |  Centro de Previsao de Tempo e Estudos Climaticos - CPTEC
>    ` .-|  Instituto Nacional de Pesquisas Espaciais - MCT/INPE
>       . \  A happy Linux User #71117
>        . \
>         .-|
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- >8 ----
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From brendan at icecast.org  Tue Jun 26 13:55:11 2001
From: brendan at icecast.org (Brendan Cully)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 09:55:11 -0400
Subject: [icecast] ices...mount points (and a LAME question)
In-Reply-To: <3B387E0A.2000705@hhcl.com>
Message-ID: <20010626095511.B424@xanadu.kublai.com>



On Tuesday, 26 June 2001 at 13:20, Darrell Berry wrote:
> hi
> 
> don't know if i'm missing something, but how do i name mount points 
> using ices?
> 
> i assumed this was specified in the
> 
> <ices:Stream>
>    <ices:Name></ices:Name>
> </ices:Stream>

No, that's just the name of the stream. Put it in
<ices:Server>
  <ices:Mountpoint><ices:Mountpoint>
</ices:Server>

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From brendan at icecast.org  Tue Jun 26 13:56:06 2001
From: brendan at icecast.org (Brendan Cully)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 09:56:06 -0400
Subject: [icecast] more on building with lame
In-Reply-To: <3B38A173.1000803@hhcl.com>
Message-ID: <20010626095605.C424@xanadu.kublai.com>



On Tuesday, 26 June 2001 at 15:51, Darrell Berry wrote:
> nope, already done that, any other ideas?
> 
> Denys Sene dos Santos wrote:
> 
> >    # rm config.cache
> >    #./configure ...
> >
> >Darrell Berry wrote:
> >
> >
> >>i get
> >>
> >>checking for lame/lame.h... (cached) no
> >>checking for lame.h... (cached) no
> >>configure: error: Could not find a valid LAME library installation

Find out where lame.h is installed :)

By the way you need at least lame 3.88beta with ices 0.1.0.

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From darrellb at hhcl.com  Tue Jun 26 14:58:42 2001
From: darrellb at hhcl.com (Darrell Berry)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 15:58:42 +0100
Subject: [icecast] ices...mount points (and a LAME question)
In-Reply-To: <20010626095511.B424@xanadu.kublai.com>
Message-ID: <3B38A322.9080500@hhcl.com>



obvious!

thnx

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From sene at cptec.inpe.br  Tue Jun 26 14:02:00 2001
From: sene at cptec.inpe.br (Denys Sene dos Santos)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 11:02:00 -0300
Subject: [icecast] more on building with lame
In-Reply-To: <20010626095605.C424@xanadu.kublai.com>
Message-ID: <3B3895D7.269CC16F@cptec.inpe.br>



    Lame3.88 has no reencoding.
    Because this, I used 3.86... but it needs to copy the libs manualy
to the right places

    Why is the Lame/Ices/Icecast documentation so poor ???

Brendan Cully wrote:

> On Tuesday, 26 June 2001 at 15:51, Darrell Berry wrote:
> > nope, already done that, any other ideas?
> >
> > Denys Sene dos Santos wrote:
> >
> > >    # rm config.cache
> > >    #./configure ...
> > >
> > >Darrell Berry wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >>i get
> > >>
> > >>checking for lame/lame.h... (cached) no
> > >>checking for lame.h... (cached) no
> > >>configure: error: Could not find a valid LAME library installation
>
> Find out where lame.h is installed :)
>
> By the way you need at least lame 3.88beta with ices 0.1.0.
>


--
 _____________________________________________________________________
 \_
   \  Denys Sene dos Santos  -  sene at cptec.inpe.br
  o/\_  http://www1.cptec.inpe.br/~sene/  -  ICQ #31845401
 <\__,\  Divis?o de Supercomputa??o - Tel:(012)560-8458
  ">.  |  Centro de Previsao de Tempo e Estudos Climaticos - CPTEC
   ` .-|  Instituto Nacional de Pesquisas Espaciais - MCT/INPE
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From brendan at icecast.org  Tue Jun 26 14:05:36 2001
From: brendan at icecast.org (Brendan Cully)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 10:05:36 -0400
Subject: [icecast] more on building with lame
In-Reply-To: <3B3895D7.269CC16F@cptec.inpe.br>
Message-ID: <20010626100536.D424@xanadu.kublai.com>



On Tuesday, 26 June 2001 at 11:02, Denys Sene dos Santos wrote:
> 
>     Lame3.88 has no reencoding.
>     Because this, I used 3.86... but it needs to copy the libs manualy
> to the right places

Er, what version of ices are you running? ices 0.1.0 will not work
with 3.86. Lame 3.88 also builds much better.

>     Why is the Lame/Ices/Icecast documentation so poor ???

Because nobody sends improvements?

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From darrellb at hhcl.com  Tue Jun 26 15:07:32 2001
From: darrellb at hhcl.com (Darrell Berry)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 16:07:32 +0100
Subject: [icecast] more on building with lame
In-Reply-To: <20010626100536.D424@xanadu.kublai.com>
Message-ID: <3B38A534.8010703@hhcl.com>



um where are 'the right places'

<sigh>

Brendan Cully wrote:

> On Tuesday, 26 June 2001 at 11:02, Denys Sene dos Santos wrote:
> 
>>     Lame3.88 has no reencoding.
>>     Because this, I used 3.86... but it needs to copy the libs manualy
>> to the right places

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From darrellb at hhcl.com  Tue Jun 26 15:09:59 2001
From: darrellb at hhcl.com (Darrell Berry)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 16:09:59 +0100
Subject: [icecast] more on building with lame
In-Reply-To: <20010626100536.D424@xanadu.kublai.com>
Message-ID: <3B38A5C7.7030109@hhcl.com>



hmm

tried with lame 3.88, and deleting config.cache, still get:

checking for lame/lame.h... yes
checking for lame_init_old in -lmp3lame... no
Could not find a valid LAME library, reencoding disabled

i assume this MIGHT be some compile-time thing with lame...?

any ideas?

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From brendan at icecast.org  Tue Jun 26 14:15:18 2001
From: brendan at icecast.org (Brendan Cully)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 10:15:18 -0400
Subject: [icecast] more on building with lame
In-Reply-To: <3B38A5C7.7030109@hhcl.com>
Message-ID: <20010626101518.F424@xanadu.kublai.com>



On Tuesday, 26 June 2001 at 16:09, Darrell Berry wrote:
> hmm
> 
> tried with lame 3.88, and deleting config.cache, still get:
> 
> checking for lame/lame.h... yes
> checking for lame_init_old in -lmp3lame... no
> Could not find a valid LAME library, reencoding disabled
> 
> i assume this MIGHT be some compile-time thing with lame...?

You've probably got an old version of libmp3lame still installed. Make
sure you find and delete all old LAME stuff before you install the new
library.

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From sene at cptec.inpe.br  Tue Jun 26 14:15:12 2001
From: sene at cptec.inpe.br (Denys Sene dos Santos)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 11:15:12 -0300
Subject: [icecast] more on building with lame
In-Reply-To: <3B38A534.8010703@hhcl.com>
Message-ID: <3B3898EF.5C85ED2F@cptec.inpe.br>



    May be /usr/lib and /usr/includes

Darrell Berry wrote:

> um where are 'the right places'
>
> <sigh>
>
> Brendan Cully wrote:
>
> > On Tuesday, 26 June 2001 at 11:02, Denys Sene dos Santos wrote:
> >
> >>     Lame3.88 has no reencoding.
> >>     Because this, I used 3.86... but it needs to copy the libs manualy
> >> to the right places
>
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--
 _____________________________________________________________________
 \_
   \  Denys Sene dos Santos  -  sene at cptec.inpe.br
  o/\_  http://www1.cptec.inpe.br/~sene/  -  ICQ #31845401
 <\__,\  Divis?o de Supercomputa??o - Tel:(012)560-8458
  ">.  |  Centro de Previsao de Tempo e Estudos Climaticos - CPTEC
   ` .-|  Instituto Nacional de Pesquisas Espaciais - MCT/INPE
      . \  A happy Linux User #71117
       . \
        .-|

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From sene at cptec.inpe.br  Tue Jun 26 14:15:39 2001
From: sene at cptec.inpe.br (Denys Sene dos Santos)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 11:15:39 -0300
Subject: [icecast] more on building with lame
In-Reply-To: <20010626100536.D424@xanadu.kublai.com>
Message-ID: <3B38990A.2997289E@cptec.inpe.br>



    I'm running Ices 0.1.0, but the reencoding don't works
with lame3.88. I prefer 3.88, it's more clean, but with the 3.86
that the reencoding works.

    About the documentation, I think that a Linux-Icecast-Stream-HOWTO
is a good idea.  My english is very poor, to compile the info. If anyone
are interested...

Brendan Cully wrote:

> On Tuesday, 26 June 2001 at 11:02, Denys Sene dos Santos wrote:
> >
> >     Lame3.88 has no reencoding.
> >     Because this, I used 3.86... but it needs to copy the libs manualy
> > to the right places
>
> Er, what version of ices are you running? ices 0.1.0 will not work
> with 3.86. Lame 3.88 also builds much better.
>
> >     Why is the Lame/Ices/Icecast documentation so poor ???
>
> Because nobody sends improvements?


--
 _____________________________________________________________________
 \_
   \  Denys Sene dos Santos  -  sene at cptec.inpe.br
  o/\_  http://www1.cptec.inpe.br/~sene/  -  ICQ #31845401
 <\__,\  Divis?o de Supercomputa??o - Tel:(012)560-8458
  ">.  |  Centro de Previsao de Tempo e Estudos Climaticos - CPTEC
   ` .-|  Instituto Nacional de Pesquisas Espaciais - MCT/INPE
      . \  A happy Linux User #71117
       . \
        .-|

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From darrellb at hhcl.com  Tue Jun 26 15:19:47 2001
From: darrellb at hhcl.com (Darrell Berry)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 16:19:47 +0100
Subject: [icecast] more on building with lame
In-Reply-To: <20010626101518.F424@xanadu.kublai.com>
Message-ID: <3B38A813.7020702@hhcl.com>



<thnx>

    yes!

    rm /usr/lib/*lame*

    worked a treat

</thnx>

<question>

    does ices/lame support reencoding from VBR files?

    that would be very very cool

</question>

Brendan Cully wrote:

> You've probably got an old version of libmp3lame still installed. Make
> sure you find and delete all old LAME stuff before you install the new
> library.

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From brendan at icecast.org  Tue Jun 26 14:48:30 2001
From: brendan at icecast.org (Brendan Cully)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 10:48:30 -0400
Subject: [icecast] more on building with lame
In-Reply-To: <3B38990A.2997289E@cptec.inpe.br>
Message-ID: <20010626104830.G424@xanadu.kublai.com>



On Tuesday, 26 June 2001 at 11:15, Denys Sene dos Santos wrote:
> 
>     I'm running Ices 0.1.0, but the reencoding don't works
> with lame3.88. I prefer 3.88, it's more clean, but with the 3.86
> that the reencoding works.

How did you get it to build? ices 0.1.0 explicitly checks version
info, and besides that makes library calls that don't exist in 3.86.

you are probably running 0.0.1

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From jack at xiph.org  Tue Jun 26 14:49:29 2001
From: jack at xiph.org (Jack Moffitt)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 08:49:29 -0600
Subject: [icecast] [entranced@digitallyimported.com: Vorbis stream up and running]
Message-ID: <20010626084929.F11665@i.cantcode.com>



I'm sure you'll all be happy about this news :)

jack.

----- Forwarded message from Entranced <entranced at digitallyimported.com> -----

From: "Entranced" <entranced at digitallyimported.com>
To: "Jack Moffitt" <jack at icecast.org>
Cc: "Oddsock" <oddsock at oddsock.org>
Subject: Vorbis stream up and running
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 10:18:46 -0400
Organization: Digitally Imported Radio

Hi Jack,

I have a 50-user DI Trance channnel Vorbis stream up and running.
The URL for it is http://160.79.1.141:8100/trance.ogg (and I gave
it a front-page posting on www.di.fm today) if you'd like to link
to it officially.

Entranced
Digitally Imported Radio
www.digitallyimported.com

----- End forwarded message -----

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From darrellb at hhcl.com  Tue Jun 26 15:55:25 2001
From: darrellb at hhcl.com (Darrell Berry)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 16:55:25 +0100
Subject: [icecast] more on building with lame
In-Reply-To: <20010626104830.G424@xanadu.kublai.com>
Message-ID: <3B38B06D.3020202@hhcl.com>



so, for ices 0.1.0:

can't build with versions less than  3.88?

BUT

versions about 3.86 don't support reencoding?

in which case, veriosn 0.1.0 of ices doesnt't support reencoding?

that's useful to know (in an 'i just wasted half a day kind of way ;-)

...can someone confirm/deny that ANY version of lame/ices will reencode 
from a VNB file to a fixed-rate stream?

(and hopefully will cut/paste some of this into the FAQ?)

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From brendan at icecast.org  Tue Jun 26 14:56:08 2001
From: brendan at icecast.org (Brendan Cully)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 10:56:08 -0400
Subject: [icecast] more on building with lame
In-Reply-To: <3B38A813.7020702@hhcl.com>
Message-ID: <20010626105607.H424@xanadu.kublai.com>



On Tuesday, 26 June 2001 at 16:19, Darrell Berry wrote:
>    does ices/lame support reencoding from VBR files?

ices doesn't at the moment. Assuming lame does (haven't actually
checked), it might not be too hard to add that...

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From brendan at icecast.org  Tue Jun 26 15:07:16 2001
From: brendan at icecast.org (Brendan Cully)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 11:07:16 -0400
Subject: [icecast] more on building with lame
In-Reply-To: <3B38B06D.3020202@hhcl.com>
Message-ID: <20010626110716.K424@xanadu.kublai.com>



On Tuesday, 26 June 2001 at 16:55, Darrell Berry wrote:
> so, for ices 0.1.0:
> 
> can't build with versions less than  3.88?
> 
> BUT
> 
> versions about 3.86 don't support reencoding?

this part is a crock. of course it supports reencoding, if it didn't
there would be no reason to link it in at all.

As for VBR, just try it. :)

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From thomas at arkena.com  Tue Jun 26 14:17:33 2001
From: thomas at arkena.com (Thomas Kirk)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 16:17:33 +0200
Subject: [icecast] [entranced@digitallyimported.com: Vorbis stream up and running]
In-Reply-To: <20010626084929.F11665@i.cantcode.com>
Message-ID: <20010626161733.F341@wintherstill>



On Tue, Jun 26, 2001 at 08:49:29AM -0600, Jack Moffitt wrote:

> I'm sure you'll all be happy about this news :)

Cool!


-- 

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From darrellb at hhcl.com  Tue Jun 26 16:32:06 2001
From: darrellb at hhcl.com (Darrell Berry)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 17:32:06 +0100
Subject: [icecast] more on building with lame
In-Reply-To: <20010626110716.K424@xanadu.kublai.com>
Message-ID: <3B38B906.4000505@hhcl.com>



yes i admit i was just thinking 'so hang on why am i bothering ;-)'

will try VBR and see how far i get

thnx again for all your help (its insanely hot here today, and i'm NOT 
in a good mood ;-)

Brendan Cully wrote:

> this part is a crock. of course it supports reencoding, if it didn't
> there would be no reason to link it in at all.

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From jack at xiph.org  Tue Jun 26 16:40:34 2001
From: jack at xiph.org (Jack Moffitt)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 10:40:34 -0600
Subject: [icecast] more on building with lame
In-Reply-To: <3B38B06D.3020202@hhcl.com>
Message-ID: <20010626104034.I11665@i.cantcode.com>



On Tue, Jun 26, 2001 at 04:55:25PM +0100, Darrell Berry wrote:
> so, for ices 0.1.0:
> 
> can't build with versions less than  3.88?
> 
> BUT
> 
> versions about 3.86 don't support reencoding?

Are you on crack? :)

lame 3.88 works fine.  I don't understand what you mean when you say
lame doesn't support reencoding?  

> in which case, veriosn 0.1.0 of ices doesnt't support reencoding?

Yes it does.

> ...can someone confirm/deny that ANY version of lame/ices will reencode 
> from a VNB file to a fixed-rate stream?

What's a VNB file?

jack.

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From darrellb at hhcl.com  Tue Jun 26 16:48:28 2001
From: darrellb at hhcl.com (Darrell Berry)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 17:48:28 +0100
Subject: [icecast] more on building with lame
In-Reply-To: <20010626104034.I11665@i.cantcode.com>
Message-ID: <3B38BCDC.3050806@hhcl.com>



nope, not on crack, not even a little bit...i was trying to summarise 
the feedback i'd been getting from others on the list this afternoon.

as it turns out, the comment that 3.86+ doesnt support reencoding is 
simply untrue, as has been already pointed out.

but that was what someone else had said, and at that point i was just 
trying to collect that info together into one place.

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From jack at xiph.org  Tue Jun 26 16:50:21 2001
From: jack at xiph.org (Jack Moffitt)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 10:50:21 -0600
Subject: [icecast] more on building with lame
In-Reply-To: <3B38BCDC.3050806@hhcl.com>
Message-ID: <20010626105021.J11665@i.cantcode.com>



> nope, not on crack, not even a little bit...i was trying to summarise 
> the feedback i'd been getting from others on the list this afternoon.
> 
> as it turns out, the comment that 3.86+ doesnt support reencoding is 
> simply untrue, as has been already pointed out.
> 
> but that was what someone else had said, and at that point i was just 
> trying to collect that info together into one place.

Gotcha :)  It was surely confusing. 

jack.

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From dr at musicabona.cz  Tue Jun 26 16:43:55 2001
From: dr at musicabona.cz (Martin Dressler)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 18:43:55 +0200
Subject: [icecast] ices...mount points (and a LAME question)
In-Reply-To: <20010626095511.B424@xanadu.kublai.com>
Message-ID: <01062618435500.11641@office>



On Tue 26. June 2001 15:55, you wrote:
> On Tuesday, 26 June 2001 at 13:20, Darrell Berry wrote:
> > hi
> >
> > don't know if i'm missing something, but how do i name mount points
> > using ices?
> >
> > i assumed this was specified in the
> >
> > <ices:Stream>
> >    <ices:Name></ices:Name>
> > </ices:Stream>
>
> No, that's just the name of the stream. Put it in
> <ices:Server>
>   <ices:Mountpoint><ices:Mountpoint>
> </ices:Server>

This doesn't work for me.
Ices report right what i specified in <ices:Mountpoint><ices:Mountpoint>
but Icecast still report icy_0 and icy_1 as mountdir
I'm using Icecast from debian woody distribution.
Do you have any sugestions?

Thank,
Madr


-- 
      Martin Dressler

e-mail: dr at musicabona.cz
http://www.musicabona.com/

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From jack at xiph.org  Tue Jun 26 17:01:05 2001
From: jack at xiph.org (Jack Moffitt)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 11:01:05 -0600
Subject: [icecast] ices...mount points (and a LAME question)
In-Reply-To: <01062618435500.11641@office>
Message-ID: <20010626110105.K11665@i.cantcode.com>



> Ices report right what i specified in <ices:Mountpoint><ices:Mountpoint>
> but Icecast still report icy_0 and icy_1 as mountdir
> I'm using Icecast from debian woody distribution.
> Do you have any sugestions?

Yes.  Don't run in icy mode.

icy mode doesn't have mountpoints, so your mountpoint would be ignored.

jack.

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From dolex at netneo.com  Tue Jun 26 18:54:27 2001
From: dolex at netneo.com (Alex Dovgal)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 20:54:27 +0200
Subject: [icecast] icecast +liveice +linein
Message-ID: <3B38DA63.7F3BA3AF@netneo.com>



 use icecast+liveice  and i need to get stream from linein .
Icecast work perfectly and liveice was perfectly but i can get stream
only if I plug
lineout from my radio box to mic on my sound card . Is there any special

config string in liveice for streaming from linein or maybe liveice
can't do it
my liveice.cfg
# liveice configuration file
SERVER localhost
PORT 80
NAME My Radio Box
GENRE linein://
URL linein://
PUBLIC 0
X_AUDIOCAST_LOGIN
PASSWORD letmein
SAMPLE_RATE 44100
BITRATE 128000
STEREO
SOUNDCARD
HALF_DUPLEX
USE_LAME3 /usr/bin/lame
NO_MIXER
MOUNTPOINT stream
PLAYLIST playlist
DECODER_COMMAND mpg123
MIX_CONTROL_MANUAL
CONTROL_FILE mix_command
TRACK_LOGFILE track.log

What I must to do for getting stream from linein ?? Maybe ices is a
solution ?

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From wildbill at kpig.com  Tue Jun 26 18:07:19 2001
From: wildbill at kpig.com (William Goldsmith)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 11:07:19 -0700
Subject: [icecast] icecast +liveice +linein
In-Reply-To: <3B38DA63.7F3BA3AF@netneo.com>
Message-ID: <03a401c0fe6a$d77966e0$6800000a@bill>



This isn't really an icecast/liveice issue at all. You need to use whatever
mixer program is available on your system to turn on the line input. For
example OSS installs a mixer program called 'ossmix'. If you're using OSS,
the command is:
/usr/lib/oss/ossmix line.rec ON

Your path may be different. If you're not using OSS, you'll need to look for
info on whatever driver you are using.

Hope this helps
-bg

> use icecast+liveice  and i need to get stream from linein .
> Icecast work perfectly and liveice was perfectly but i can get stream
> only if I plug
> lineout from my radio box to mic on my sound card . Is there any special
>
> config string in liveice for streaming from linein or maybe liveice
> can't do it
> my liveice.cfg
> # liveice configuration file
> SERVER localhost
> PORT 80
> NAME My Radio Box
> GENRE linein://
> URL linein://
> PUBLIC 0
> X_AUDIOCAST_LOGIN
> PASSWORD letmein
> SAMPLE_RATE 44100
> BITRATE 128000
> STEREO
> SOUNDCARD
> HALF_DUPLEX
> USE_LAME3 /usr/bin/lame
> NO_MIXER
> MOUNTPOINT stream
> PLAYLIST playlist
> DECODER_COMMAND mpg123
> MIX_CONTROL_MANUAL
> CONTROL_FILE mix_command
> TRACK_LOGFILE track.log
>
> What I must to do for getting stream from linein ?? Maybe ices is a
> solution ?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- >8 ----
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> icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/
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'icecast-request at xiph.org'
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>

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From harvey at buskers.org  Tue Jun 26 18:06:32 2001
From: harvey at buskers.org (harvey smith)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 14:06:32 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [icecast] icecast +liveice +linein
In-Reply-To: <3B38DA63.7F3BA3AF@netneo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0106261401320.944-100000@tunes.norfolk.street>



On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Alex Dovgal wrote:

>  use icecast+liveice  and i need to get stream from linein .
> Icecast work perfectly and liveice was perfectly but i can get stream
> only if I plug
> lineout from my radio box to mic on my sound card . Is there any special
> 
> config string in liveice for streaming from linein or maybe liveice
> can't do it

You need to set this on the Soundcard using an app like aumix and change
the recoring source from mic to line, you'll also need to play with the
rec volume to get the right volume. (note: the line volume controls how
loud you hear it (if monitoring locally), the record volume controls how
loudness of the stream.)

> my liveice.cfg
> # liveice configuration file
> SERVER localhost
> PORT 80
> NAME My Radio Box
> GENRE linein://
> URL linein://
> PUBLIC 0
> X_AUDIOCAST_LOGIN
> PASSWORD letmein
> SAMPLE_RATE 44100
> BITRATE 128000
> STEREO
> SOUNDCARD
> HALF_DUPLEX
> USE_LAME3 /usr/bin/lame
> NO_MIXER
> MOUNTPOINT stream
> PLAYLIST playlist
> DECODER_COMMAND mpg123
> MIX_CONTROL_MANUAL
> CONTROL_FILE mix_command
> TRACK_LOGFILE track.log
> 
> What I must to do for getting stream from linein ?? Maybe ices is a
> solution ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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From darkeye at tyrell.hu  Tue Jun 26 18:28:17 2001
From: darkeye at tyrell.hu (Akos Maroy)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 21:28:17 +0300
Subject: [icecast] icecast web site
Message-ID: <3B38D441.4375FEB1@tyrell.hu>



Hi,

I just tried to write to an e-mail address on the top if the icecast
website, submit at icecast.org. It came back with user unknown. Maybe
someone should fix the site?

What I wrote about is the following. I hope the person responsible gets
it through this list.

I wrote an IceCast related piece of software, called DarkIce last fall.
I wrote at that time if I could be added to the 3rd party apps section
of the IceCast site. Strangely, it's still not there. Could you tell me
the reasons for this? Is it so that my software is inferior to other
IceCast related projects? Maybe for some reason I don't qualify? What
would be these reasons?

I'd just like to know. Thanks.

Akos Maroy

PS: In case you're interested, my project is at
http://darkice.sourceforge.net/

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From jack at xiph.org  Tue Jun 26 18:29:17 2001
From: jack at xiph.org (Jack Moffitt)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 12:29:17 -0600
Subject: [icecast] icecast web site
In-Reply-To: <3B38D441.4375FEB1@tyrell.hu>
Message-ID: <20010626122916.O11665@i.cantcode.com>



> I just tried to write to an e-mail address on the top if the icecast
> website, submit at icecast.org. It came back with user unknown. Maybe
> someone should fix the site?

I'll go fix that.  When we moved not everything got set back up. Some of
those obscure addresses got left out.

> I wrote an IceCast related piece of software, called DarkIce last fall.
> I wrote at that time if I could be added to the 3rd party apps section
> of the IceCast site. Strangely, it's still not there. Could you tell me
> the reasons for this? Is it so that my software is inferior to other
> IceCast related projects? Maybe for some reason I don't qualify? What
> would be these reasons?

Do not take my laziness personally. 

The website is almost always last on my list of priorities.  Right now
i'm cranking out a new website for vorbis.com, so that I never have to
touch it that site again :)

I plan to do a simlar thing for icecast.org as well.  Right now editing
the web pages is not fun, nothing is automated, and everything has to be
maintained by hand.

I'll try and remember to add DarkIce to the projects page tonight.  If
you don't see it by morning, you have my permission to pester me on an
hourly basis (jack at xiph.org).

Sorry for the misunderstanding and thanks for your efforts and support
of the project.

jack.

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From dolex at netneo.com  Tue Jun 26 19:58:56 2001
From: dolex at netneo.com (Alex Dovgal)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 21:58:56 +0200
Subject: [icecast] icecast +liveice +linein
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0106261401320.944-100000@tunes.norfolk.street>
Message-ID: <3B38E980.D3D5DEA4@netneo.com>



harvey smith wrote:

> On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Alex Dovgal wrote:
>
> >  use icecast+liveice  and i need to get stream from linein .
> > Icecast work perfectly and liveice was perfectly but i can get stream
> > only if I plug
> > lineout from my radio box to mic on my sound card . Is there any special
> >
> > config string in liveice for streaming from linein or maybe liveice
> > can't do it
>
> You need to set this on the Soundcard using an app like aumix and change
> the recoring source from mic to line,

Ok seems that you`w rigth . I instal aumix and see that records goes from MIC
But I cant change sorce of the record by this program .
I try to do this via ncurses interface or via text mode ( ./aumix -i R -q -S )
result is the same - record device still mic :(
I have onbord sound card
0: MSS audio codec (SoundPro CMI 8330)
Slackware 7.2 ( current ) 2.2.19
Any idea ? Maybe i miss some /dev/* for that ?
Or maybe i need some "special unix comman"  befor i start aumix  ?

> you'll also need to play with the
> rec volume to get the right volume. (note: the line volume controls how
> loud you hear it (if monitoring locally), the record volume controls how
> loudness of the stream.)
>
> > my liveice.cfg
> > # liveice configuration file
> > SERVER localhost
> > PORT 80
> > NAME My Radio Box
> > GENRE linein://
> > URL linein://
> > PUBLIC 0
> > X_AUDIOCAST_LOGIN
> > PASSWORD letmein
> > SAMPLE_RATE 44100
> > BITRATE 128000
> > STEREO
> > SOUNDCARD
> > HALF_DUPLEX
> > USE_LAME3 /usr/bin/lame
> > NO_MIXER
> > MOUNTPOINT stream
> > PLAYLIST playlist
> > DECODER_COMMAND mpg123
> > MIX_CONTROL_MANUAL
> > CONTROL_FILE mix_command
> > TRACK_LOGFILE track.log
> >
> > What I must to do for getting stream from linein ?? Maybe ices is a
> > solution ?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- >8 ----
> > List archives:  http://www.xiph.org/archives/
> > icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/
> > To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request at xiph.org'
> > containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body.  No subject is needed.
> > Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
> >
>
> --- >8 ----
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> icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/
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From dolex at netneo.com  Tue Jun 26 18:34:52 2001
From: dolex at netneo.com (Alex Dovgal)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 20:34:52 +0200
Subject: [icecast] icecast +liveice +linein
In-Reply-To: <[icecast] icecast +liveice +linein>
Message-ID: <3B38D5CB.CC747B5E@netneo.com>



harvey smith wrote:

> On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Alex Dovgal wrote:
>skip ...
> You need to set this on the Soundcard using an app like aumix and
change
> the recoring source from mic to line,

Ok seems that you`w rigth . I instal aumix and see that records goes
from MIC
But I cant change sorce of the record by this program .
I try to do this via ncurses interface or via text mode ( ./aumix -i R
-q -S )
result is the same - record device still mic :(
I have onbord sound card
0: MSS audio codec (SoundPro CMI 8330)
Slackware 7.2 ( current ) 2.2.19
Any idea ? Maybe i miss some /dev/* for that ?
Or maybe i need some "special unix comman"  befor i start aumix  ?

>skip ...

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From mjs at blitz-technology.net  Wed Jun 27 07:33:35 2001
From: mjs at blitz-technology.net (Mitchell)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 17:33:35 +1000
Subject: [icecast] live streaming
Message-ID: <20010627173335.A623@blitz-technology.net>



Hi list,

I am wanting to stream audio live to my sound card, have it compressed on the fly and sent to my
icecast server. 

I had a look at darkice (http://darkice.sourceforge.net) but I didn't seem to be able to get that to
work, the stream skipped seriously and no config options or different encoder I used managed to get it
sounding normal.  

The machine I am using to do the live encoding is an AMD Duron 800 with 128 mb of ram which I assume
would be able to handle atleast 1 or 2 streams with realtime encoding. 

Is there any other alternatives I can use to darkice? 

Any help greatly appreciated.

Thanks

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From dr at musicabona.cz  Wed Jun 27 09:41:54 2001
From: dr at musicabona.cz (Martin Dressler)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 11:41:54 +0200
Subject: [icecast] multistreams
In-Reply-To: <20010626110105.K11665@i.cantcode.com>
Message-ID: <01062711415401.11641@office>



On Tue 26. June 2001 19:01, you wrote:
> > Ices report right what i specified in <ices:Mountpoint><ices:Mountpoint>
> > but Icecast still report icy_0 and icy_1 as mountdir
> > I'm using Icecast from debian woody distribution.
> > Do you have any sugestions?
>
> Yes.  Don't run in icy mode.
>
> icy mode doesn't have mountpoints, so your mountpoint would be ignored.
>
> jack.
>
Thank for prompt answer. It help me.

But I have another problem. I tried multistreaming with two streams where is 
one mp3  stream reencoded at lower bitrate (to 24 kbps from 40kbps).
When I listen to original bitrate there is no problem,
but when I listen to reencoded stream, there are every ~ two second drop outs.
When I feed icecast with only one reencoded stream, there is no problem.
This is on localnet (10MB) and cpu usage is on 30% so this shouldn't be a 
problem.
I'm using ices from cvs with lame 3.88 and
Icecast 1.3.10 from debian woody.
for listening I'm using winamp.
My linux kernel is 2.2.18
Do you have any suggestions. Is it known bug?

Thank,
Madr


-- 
      Martin Dressler

e-mail: dr at musicabona.cz
http://www.musicabona.com/

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From brendan at icecast.org  Wed Jun 27 16:00:35 2001
From: brendan at icecast.org (Brendan Cully)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 12:00:35 -0400
Subject: [icecast] multistreams
In-Reply-To: <01062711415401.11641@office>
Message-ID: <20010627120035.A421@xanadu.kublai.com>



On Wednesday, 27 June 2001 at 11:41, Martin Dressler wrote:
> But I have another problem. I tried multistreaming with two streams where is 
> one mp3  stream reencoded at lower bitrate (to 24 kbps from 40kbps).
> When I listen to original bitrate there is no problem,
> but when I listen to reencoded stream, there are every ~ two second drop outs.

I haven't been able to reproduce this using a 24k stream and a 40k
stream, both reencoded (I don't have any 40k files lying around :)

First, try the latest CVS. If you have the same problem, send me your
ices.conf off the list (and minus your passwords).

-Brendan

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From kirk at braille.uwo.ca  Wed Jun 27 18:08:56 2001
From: kirk at braille.uwo.ca (Kirk Reiser)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 14:08:56 -0400
Subject: [icecast] ices cvs crashing
Message-ID: <E15FJkG-0004SB-00@speech.braille.uwo.ca>



Well, hi folks:  I am still having this problem with ices crashing
regularly.  I have upgraded to todays cvs for ices and icecast hoping
that would take care of it but no such luck.  I am not sure just what
is going on.  It seems to happen fairly often which is not exactly
making my listeners happy.  I will include the relevant portion of the
ices.log below.  I would appreciate any suggestions anyone might
have.  I am running three streams but it's on an Athlon 650 so it
shouldn't be a not enough umph problem.

DEBUG: Builtin playlist handler serving: /var/music/Renaissance/Prologue/6-Rajah_Khan.mp3
DEBUG: ID3v1 song: Rajah Khan
DEBUG: ID3v1 artist: Renaissance
DEBUG: Layer: III		Version: MPEG-1	Frequency: 44100
DEBUG: Bitrate: 128 kbit/s	Padding: 1	Mode: j-stereo
DEBUG: Ext: 0	Mode_Ext: 2	Copyright: 0	Original: 1
DEBUG: Error Protection: 0	Emphasis: 0	Stereo: 2
Playing /var/music/Renaissance/Prologue/6-Rajah_Khan.mp3
DEBUG: Updated metadata on egoplay56 to: Renaissance - Rajah Khan
DEBUG: Updated metadata on egoplay24 to: Renaissance - Rajah Khan
DEBUG: Updated metadata on egoplay to: Renaissance - Rajah Khan
Warning: Encountered error while transfering /var/music/Renaissance/Prologue/6-Rajah_Khan.mp3. [Libshout reported send error: Libshout socket error.]
Libshout communication problem, trying to reconnect to server
Failed reconnecting to server 127.0.0.1, error: 3
Ices Exiting...

  Kirk

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From brendan at icecast.org  Wed Jun 27 18:23:37 2001
From: brendan at icecast.org (Brendan Cully)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 14:23:37 -0400
Subject: [icecast] ices cvs crashing
In-Reply-To: <E15FJkG-0004SB-00@speech.braille.uwo.ca>
Message-ID: <20010627142337.D421@xanadu.kublai.com>



On Wednesday, 27 June 2001 at 14:08, Kirk Reiser wrote:
> Well, hi folks:  I am still having this problem with ices crashing
> regularly.  I have upgraded to todays cvs for ices and icecast hoping
> that would take care of it but no such luck.  I am not sure just what
> is going on.  It seems to happen fairly often which is not exactly
> making my listeners happy.  I will include the relevant portion of the
> ices.log below.  I would appreciate any suggestions anyone might
> have.  I am running three streams but it's on an Athlon 650 so it
> shouldn't be a not enough umph problem.
> 
> DEBUG: Builtin playlist handler serving: /var/music/Renaissance/Prologue/6-Rajah_Khan.mp3
> DEBUG: ID3v1 song: Rajah Khan
> DEBUG: ID3v1 artist: Renaissance
> DEBUG: Layer: III		Version: MPEG-1	Frequency: 44100
> DEBUG: Bitrate: 128 kbit/s	Padding: 1	Mode: j-stereo
> DEBUG: Ext: 0	Mode_Ext: 2	Copyright: 0	Original: 1
> DEBUG: Error Protection: 0	Emphasis: 0	Stereo: 2
> Playing /var/music/Renaissance/Prologue/6-Rajah_Khan.mp3
> DEBUG: Updated metadata on egoplay56 to: Renaissance - Rajah Khan
> DEBUG: Updated metadata on egoplay24 to: Renaissance - Rajah Khan
> DEBUG: Updated metadata on egoplay to: Renaissance - Rajah Khan
> Warning: Encountered error while transfering /var/music/Renaissance/Prologue/6-Rajah_Khan.mp3. [Libshout reported send error: Libshout socket error.]
> Libshout communication problem, trying to reconnect to server
> Failed reconnecting to server 127.0.0.1, error: 3
> Ices Exiting...

What does the icecast server log have to say about it?

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From kirk at braille.uwo.ca  Wed Jun 27 19:30:26 2001
From: kirk at braille.uwo.ca (Kirk Reiser)
Date: 27 Jun 2001 15:30:26 -0400
Subject: [icecast] ices cvs crashing
In-Reply-To: <20010627142337.D421@xanadu.kublai.com>
Message-ID: <x7r8w5g1pp.fsf@speech.braille.uwo.ca>



Brendan Cully <brendan at icecast.org> writes:

> What does the icecast server log have to say about it?

It says something really lame like kicking source invalid mount
point.  I'll include it in my next post if any.  I realized after
sending that post that libshout wasn't getting cvs updated when I ran
it on the ices tree.  Probably because I just have a symlink in the
directory pointing to my libshout dir.  I updated that and encode.c
changed, so I've recompiled libshout and we'll see if that fixes it.
I hope so.

  Kirk


-- 

Kirk Reiser				The Computer Braille Facility
e-mail: kirk at braille.uwo.ca		University of Western Ontario
phone: (519) 661-3061

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From pozar at lns.com  Wed Jun 27 20:01:00 2001
From: pozar at lns.com (Tim Pozar)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 13:01:00 -0700
Subject: [icecast] live streaming
In-Reply-To: <20010627173335.A623@blitz-technology.net>
Message-ID: <20010627130100.A76553@lns.com>



Couple of solutions you can check out.

Liveice (http://star.arm.ac.uk/~spm/software/liveice.html) will do
it.  It has been out for some time.  I had problems with it under
earlier versions of FreeBSD as liveice was written for Linux in
mind and there were some problems with how liveice was talking to
piped files.

I wrote a perl script that also does live MP3 streaming to a pre-2.0
icecast and shoutcast servers.  You can find it at
http://www.lns.com/papers/mixice.

Tim

On Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 05:33:35PM +1000, Mitchell wrote:
> I am wanting to stream audio live to my sound card, have it compressed on the fly and sent to my
> icecast server. 
> 
> I had a look at darkice (http://darkice.sourceforge.net) but I didn't seem to be able to get that to
> work, the stream skipped seriously and no config options or different encoder I used managed to get it
> sounding normal.  
> 
> The machine I am using to do the live encoding is an AMD Duron 800 with 128 mb of ram which I assume
> would be able to handle atleast 1 or 2 streams with realtime encoding. 
> 
> Is there any other alternatives I can use to darkice? 
> 
> Any help greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks

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From harvey at buskers.org  Wed Jun 27 20:10:17 2001
From: harvey at buskers.org (harvey smith)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 16:10:17 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [icecast] ices cvs crashing
In-Reply-To: <E15FJkG-0004SB-00@speech.braille.uwo.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0106271603520.1305-100000@tunes.norfolk.street>



On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, Kirk Reiser wrote:

> Well, hi folks:  I am still having this problem with ices crashing
> regularly.  I have upgraded to todays cvs for ices and icecast hoping

[ ... ]

> Warning: Encountered error while transfering /var/music/Renaissance/Prologue/6-Rajah_Khan.mp3. [Libshout reported send error: Libshout socket error.]
> Libshout communication problem, trying to reconnect to server
> Failed reconnecting to server 127.0.0.1, error: 3
> Ices Exiting...

I get this too, but I'm still using the older ices. It happens whenever my
route to the internet goes down. I think maybe ices can't look up the url
at the top of it's config file (wild guess). Let us know if this has been
fixed in the newest version.

Here's what my icecast.log says when this happens:

[23/Jun/2001:14:47:25] [1:Calendar Thread] directory_touch_xa([yp.icecast.org:80]) completed...server id = 69
[23/Jun/2001:14:53:12] [753:Connection Handler] Kicking source 749 [127.0.0.1] [Invalid Mount Point] [encoder], connected for 0 seconds, 0 bytes transfered. 1 sources connected
[23/Jun/2001:14:53:12] [753:Connection Handler] Kicking all 0 clients for source 749
[23/Jun/2001:14:53:12] [754:Connection Handler] Kicking source 750 [127.0.0.1] [Invalid Mount Point] [encoder], connected for 0 seconds, 0 bytes transfered. 1 sources connected
[23/Jun/2001:14:53:12] [754:Connection Handler] Kicking all 0 clients for source 750
[23/Jun/2001:14:54:00] [1:Calendar Thread] WARNING: Connect to yp.icecast.org failed.
[23/Jun/2001:14:54:00] [4:Source Thread] Source /archive signed off, moving clients to default mount
[23/Jun/2001:14:54:00] [4:Source Thread] Kicking source 0 [127.0.0.1] [Source signed off (killed itself)] [encoder], connected for 8 days, 13 hours, 54 minutes
and 31 seconds, 368491 bytes transfered. 1 sources connected
[23/Jun/2001:14:54:00] [4:Source Thread] Kicking all 0 clients for source 0
[23/Jun/2001:14:54:00] [6:Source Thread] Source /bingo signed off, moving clients to default mount
[23/Jun/2001:14:54:00] [6:Source Thread] Kicking source 2 [127.0.0.1] [Source signed off (killed itself)] [encoder], connected for 8 days, 13 hours, 54 minutes
and 24 seconds, 378293 bytes transfered. 0 sources connected
[23/Jun/2001:14:54:00] [6:Source Thread] Kicking all 0 clients for source 2
[23/Jun/2001:14:57:24] [1:Calendar Thread] directory_touch_xa([yp.icecast.org:80]) completed...server id = 69
  

Harvey

> 
>   Kirk
> 
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From darkeye at tyrell.hu  Wed Jun 27 20:30:16 2001
From: darkeye at tyrell.hu (Akos Maroy)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 23:30:16 +0300
Subject: [icecast] live streaming
In-Reply-To: <20010627130100.A76553@lns.com>
Message-ID: <3B3A4258.E6C3B26C@tyrell.hu>



> On Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 05:33:35PM +1000, Mitchell wrote:
> I had a look at darkice (http://darkice.sourceforge.net) but I didn't seem to be able to get that to
> work, the stream skipped seriously and no config options or different encoder I used managed to get it
> sounding normal.

Could you describe the problems with darkice in more detail?

Thanks,

Akos Maroy

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From mspiegel at sccs.swarthmore.edu  Thu Jun 28 03:41:56 2001
From: mspiegel at sccs.swarthmore.edu (Michael Spiegel)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 23:41:56 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [icecast] Trouble with LiveIce
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0106252228080.26133-100000@merlin.sccs.swarthmore.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0106272335520.4712-100000@merlin.sccs.swarthmore.edu>



Hi Folks,

  I have fixed the problem I was experiencing with LiveIce.  The boring
solution is that I was using lame 3.13.  I have no idea why.  So LiveIce
was barfing when it was trying to feed my lame the -r tag.  That tag
didn't exist back then.
  The more interesting part is that in encoders.c, exec_encoder_lame3 will
turn off a lot of output that was going to the console.  On line 456,
there is an if-block that begins if(g_conf.debug<10)...then turn off
stuff.  Now, when I got rid of this line, I could see all the barf that
lame was giving me.
  So if others are having problems with LiveIce, I suggest a similar
approach.

Cheers,

-Spiegel

Michael Spiegel
WSRN 91.5 FM
Swarthmore College
Swarthmore, PA 19081
http://wsrn.swarthmore.edu

On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, Michael Spiegel wrote:

> Hi Folks,
> 
> I'm having the weirdest trouble with liveice.  When I start it up with the
> correct servername, it grinds to a halt with these messages:
> 
> playlist
> 0
> Initialising Soundcard
> 16Bit 22050Hz Stereo
> opening connection to localhost 8000
> Attempting to Contact Server
> connection successful: forking process
> opening pipe!...
> writing password   
> 
> Then it waits there.  Now, when I tried it with a bogus servername,
> liveice starts working.  Of course, it's not sending me stream
> anywhere! Why is this happening?
> 
> Here are the messages:
> 
> Attempting to Contact Server
> oops...some problem connecting, disabling stream
> Setting Up Interface
> Soundcard Reopened for Encoding
> 
> etc, etc.
> 
> Thanks greatly,
> 
> -Michael Spiegel, '03
> WSRN 91.5 FM
> Swarthmore College Radio
> 500 College Ave.
> Swarthmore, PA 19081
> 
> 
> --- >8 ----
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From darrellb at hhcl.com  Thu Jun 28 11:09:07 2001
From: darrellb at hhcl.com (Darrell Berry)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 12:09:07 +0100
Subject: [icecast] reencoding: ices/lame with otto
Message-ID: <3B3B1053.7000103@hhcl.com>



i have installed ices with lame suport (thanks to all who helped!), and 
it happily reencodes bitrates.

i have installed otto, and that too is brillient

however i can't get otto to call ices in such a way that it will 
reencode stuff streamed thru otto...

when i have had ices working with reencoding, i've configured it via the 
xml config file rather than with command line switches

i've edited ottojockeyd to add the -H switch into the system call of ices:

     system
         $icesexe,
#       "-B",  # this flag makes the ices process detach and go into 
background (async) mode
         "-H 96",
         "-s",
         "-S", "builtin",
         "-h", $icecasthost,
         "-p", $icecastport,
         "-P", $icecastpass,
#       "-b", $kbps,
         "-n", $name,
#       "-g", "Various Specific",
#       "-d", $name,
         "-u", $url,
         "-m", $icecastmountpoint,
         "-F", $playlist;

then killed and restarted jockeyd and all running ices processes

px ax shows that the -H 96 switch is correctly applied when new 
instances start up, but i'm still getting streams at the original 
bitrate...is there something about how otto calls ices and or the other 
switches its applying that is stopping reencoding from working?

thnx

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From bowserj at unbc.ca  Thu Jun 28 13:33:59 2001
From: bowserj at unbc.ca (Joe Bowser)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 06:33:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [icecast] live streaming
In-Reply-To: <20010627173335.A623@blitz-technology.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0106280626410.3931-100000@ugrad.unbc.ca>



On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, Mitchell wrote:

> Hi list,
> 
> I am wanting to stream audio live to my sound card, have it compressed on the fly and sent to my
> icecast server. 
> 
> I had a look at darkice (http://darkice.sourceforge.net) but I didn't seem to be able to get that to
> work, the stream skipped seriously and no config options or different encoder I used managed to get it
> sounding normal.  
> 
> The machine I am using to do the live encoding is an AMD Duron 800 with 128 mb of ram which I assume
> would be able to handle atleast 1 or 2 streams with realtime encoding. 
> 
> Is there any other alternatives I can use to darkice? 

There are many different alternatives, such as liveice and  jaromil's
Multiple Streaming Engine (MuSE:http://muse.dyne.org).  However, all use
an external encoder.  Most use the lame encoder, however some (like
MuSE) also have support for OggVorbis, which you should consider looking
at.

As for what the problem is with darkice, what encoder are you using?
What bitrate are you trying to encode at?  


--
------------------------------------------------
Joe Bowser - bowserj at unbc.ca
Student Director
Education Alternative Radio Society
-----------------------------------------------
http://web.unbc.ca/~bowserj/

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From bowserj at unbc.ca  Thu Jun 28 13:36:41 2001
From: bowserj at unbc.ca (Joe Bowser)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 06:36:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [icecast] Bitrate werid
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0106280634180.3931-100000@ugrad.unbc.ca>



Hey

Remeber a few months ago the lightweight broadcaster that Scott put on
the list and called liveice_2.c.  I compiled it the other day because I
was bored, and I found that the sampling rate was always far too
fast.  I'm just wondering if anyone else found that problem in that chunk
of code.


-- 
------------------------------------------------
Joe Bowser - bowserj at unbc.ca
Student Director
Education Alternative Radio Society
-----------------------------------------------
http://web.unbc.ca/~bowserj/

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From ajones at alternic.org  Thu Jun 28 16:51:39 2001
From: ajones at alternic.org (AJones!)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 12:51:39 -0400
Subject: [icecast] Quick Question.
Message-ID: <200106281652.f5SGqEw09744@alternic.org>



How can you have an intro play prior to it
going in the stream ala Live 365?

Any suggestions would be great!

AJ

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From darrellb at hhcl.com  Thu Jun 28 17:58:29 2001
From: darrellb at hhcl.com (Darrell Berry)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 18:58:29 +0100
Subject: [icecast] ads/inserts (was: Quick Question.)
In-Reply-To: <200106281652.f5SGqEw09744@alternic.org>
Message-ID: <3B3B7045.3FF1644C@hhcl.com>



i have a similar(ish) questionm tho i admit it may be slightly OT coz
I'm trying to do it with otto...any idea how to script (and here i guess
i AM asking 'how do i automate this with otto' rather than 'is there
anyway to do it with icecast') semiregular ads/news itesm/bulletins into
an otto playlist?

even something as simple as cronning an insert of a news item into the
playlist every 30 minutes, so that when the current song ended, the news
would happen...?

or, more generally, does anyone undertsand enoguh of the inner workings
of otto to tell me how to script, from outside the web interface,
requests into the stream?

thx

orry for rambling...

"AJones!" wrote:
> 
> How can you have an intro play prior to it
> going in the stream ala Live 365?
> 
> Any suggestions would be great!
> 
> AJ
> 
> --- >8 ----
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From jack at xiph.org  Thu Jun 28 17:59:26 2001
From: jack at xiph.org (Jack Moffitt)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 11:59:26 -0600
Subject: [icecast] ads/inserts (was: Quick Question.)
In-Reply-To: <3B3B7045.3FF1644C@hhcl.com>
Message-ID: <20010628115926.D10201@i.cantcode.com>



The way I've suggested in the past is to use your m3u or pls files for
this purpose.

Just make your m3u file ahve:

http://www.mysite.com/ad.mp3
http://www.mysite.com:8000/stream

jack.

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From ajones at alternic.org  Thu Jun 28 18:05:56 2001
From: ajones at alternic.org (AJones!)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 14:05:56 -0400
Subject: [icecast] ads/inserts (was: Quick Question.)
In-Reply-To: <[icecast] ads/inserts (was: Quick Question.)>
Message-ID: <200106281806.f5SI6Ww09936@alternic.org>



6/28/01 1:59 PM jack at xiph.org

Dear Jack:

>The way I've suggested in the past is to use your m3u or pls files for
>this purpose.
>
>Just make your m3u file ahve:
>
>http://www.mysite.com/ad.mp3
>http://www.mysite.com:8000/stream

Currently I have it set this way:

http://www.mysite.com:8000/playlist.pls

which forces open an mp3 player.

Do I need to include it in the playlist.pls?

Thanks!

AJ

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From Bryan.Walls at msfc.nasa.gov  Thu Jun 28 20:38:56 2001
From: Bryan.Walls at msfc.nasa.gov (Bryan Walls)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 15:38:56 -0500
Subject: [icecast] beat, stereo in Liveice
In-Reply-To: <200106281806.f5SI6Ww09936@alternic.org>
Message-ID: <a05101002b76141920067@[128.158.141.236]>



I compiled Liveice on Yellow Dog Linux 2.0 (Red Dog variant on 
PowerPC (Macintosh) systems). I've noticed three things:

The config file is set up with the MONO key. And I also tried 
launching with "-c 1". However, liveice shows the input format as 16 
Bit, 22050 Hz Stereo. It also shows two input levels. Is it encoding 
to a mono signal?

Input is 22050 Hz sampling, and I'm encoding at 24000 bps. I'm using 
the same audio input that's going to a Mac running Mac OS 9.1 and 
MacAmp at the same settings. The liveice version has a definite beat 
artifact in the stream. Also, it causes my client to rebuffer 
frequently, which doesn't happen with MacAmp. If the liveice version 
is sending stereo, that would explain the rebuffering (twice the 
bandwidth). Is the LAME encoder putting in the beat? How can I avoid 
that?

-- 
Bryan Walls                             My words are not NASA policy.
Bryan.Walls at msfc.nasa.gov               (256)544-3311voice,544-7128fax
http://science.nasa.gov	http://liftoff.msfc.nasa.gov http://kids.msfc.nasa.gov

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From jgrimm at catinthebox.com  Thu Jun 28 21:53:30 2001
From: jgrimm at catinthebox.com (Jonathan Grimm)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 16:53:30 -0500
Subject: [icecast] Icecast/Liveice problems
Message-ID: <1952928829.20010628165330@catinthebox.com>



Hello,
  I've got icecast and liveice configured now.  When I put liveice in
  mixer mode and give it a playlist it serves out the stream fine.
  When I try to do it soundcard only, winamp times out trying to
  connect to the stream.  I have successfully recorded with the sound
  recorder from gnome so sound levels and recording source shouldn't
  be a problem.  Any suggestions?
  


-- 
Best regards,
 Jonathan                          mailto:jgrimm at catinthebox.com

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From jack at xiph.org  Fri Jun 29 00:46:37 2001
From: jack at xiph.org (Jack Moffitt)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 18:46:37 -0600
Subject: [icecast] new mailing list - advocacy@xiph.org
Message-ID: <20010628184637.D17194@i.cantcode.com>



We've had a few requests for a place where advocacy efforts can be
discussed.

I've created a new mailing list, advocacy at xiph.org.  This is going to be
a place where we:

- discuss adoption strategies
- coordinate vendor support requests
- help coordinate promotion activity

I encourage everyone who is interested in promoting, advocating and
evangelizing Vorbis, Icecast and other Xiph.org projects, join the list
and help us get the word on the streets.

jack.
The Ogg Pimp

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From jack at xiph.org  Fri Jun 29 04:10:40 2001
From: jack at xiph.org (Jack Moffitt)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 22:10:40 -0600
Subject: [icecast] ogg vorbis works in windows media plyaer
Message-ID: <20010628221040.C17999@i.cantcode.com>



The first release of the DirectShow filters, which also enables Ogg
Vorbis playback in Windows Media Player was released today.

http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/zorannt/Codecs-0.0.3.msi

This installed great for me on win2k, but reportedly has issues with
Win9x.  There will be an update tomrrow I believe.

Big news :)

jack.

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From primus at veris.org  Fri Jun 29 05:20:16 2001
From: primus at veris.org (Ethan Butterfield)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 22:20:16 -0700
Subject: [icecast] ogg vorbis works in windows media plyaer
In-Reply-To: <20010628221040.C17999@i.cantcode.com>
Message-ID: <20010628222016.A28398@veris.org>



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Thu, Jun 28, 2001 at 10:10:40PM -0600, Jack Moffitt wrote:
> The first release of the DirectShow filters, which also enables Ogg
> Vorbis playback in Windows Media Player was released today.
> 
> http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/zorannt/Codecs-0.0.3.msi
> 
> This installed great for me on win2k, but reportedly has issues with
> Win9x.  There will be an update tomrrow I believe.
> 
> 
> Big news :)

Hey, congratulations! This is a big step forward. Now if you can get the
codecs in as part of the standard WMP install...;)

- -- 

 "A true friend stabs you in the front."
     - Oscar Wilde

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

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ltLA1t810fiDCEM5clc80BE=
=tVZg
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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From jack at xiph.org  Fri Jun 29 05:40:19 2001
From: jack at xiph.org (Jack Moffitt)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 23:40:19 -0600
Subject: [icecast] ogg vorbis works in windows media plyaer
In-Reply-To: <20010628222016.A28398@veris.org>
Message-ID: <20010628234019.E17999@i.cantcode.com>



> Hey, congratulations! This is a big step forward. Now if you can get the
> codecs in as part of the standard WMP install...;)

Doubtful that will happen for a while.   In the meantime, I'm looking
into clever ways to get IE to install them automatically :)

jack.

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From maarten.stolte at veronica.nl  Fri Jun 29 07:11:21 2001
From: maarten.stolte at veronica.nl (Maarten Stolte)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 09:11:21 +0200
Subject: [icecast] ogg vorbis works in windows media plyaer
In-Reply-To: <20010628221040.C17999@i.cantcode.com>
Message-ID: <NEBBKGHMCLHHMAMCIEHGMEGACHAA.maarten.stolte@veronica.nl>



great!
Does it do streaming etc?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-icecast at xiph.org [mailto:owner-icecast at xiph.org]On Behalf Of
> Jack Moffitt
> Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 6:11 AM
> To: icecast at xiph.org
> Subject: [icecast] ogg vorbis works in windows media plyaer
>
>
> The first release of the DirectShow filters, which also enables Ogg
> Vorbis playback in Windows Media Player was released today.
>
> http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/zorannt/Codecs-0.0.3.msi
>
> This installed great for me on win2k, but reportedly has issues with
> Win9x.  There will be an update tomrrow I believe.
>
>
> Big news :)
>
> jack.
>
> --- >8 ----
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From wolfgangebneter at os-net.de  Fri Jun 29 15:18:01 2001
From: wolfgangebneter at os-net.de (Wolfgang Ebneter)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 17:18:01 +0200
Subject: [icecast] mount problem
Message-ID: <01062917180100.07763@pandora>



Hi list,

I'm trying to stream a mp3-file to the icecast server using liveice. In the 
liveice.cfg I've set the mount to /mzo/audio which is a directory in 
/usr/local/httpd/htdocs. Liveice connects to the server, writes the password 
and then times out.
Icecast writes "lost connection to mount /mzo/audio" .
What am I doing wrong ?
I run liveice in shout mode.

cheers Wolfgang

-- 
Wolfgang Ebneter M.Sc. Data Engineering
Medienzentrum Osnabr?ck
eb at medienzentrum-osnabrueck.de

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From kirk at braille.uwo.ca  Fri Jun 29 16:56:16 2001
From: kirk at braille.uwo.ca (Kirk Reiser)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 12:56:16 -0400
Subject: [icecast] no go, same ices/icecast errors
Message-ID: <E15G1Z2-00052m-00@speech.braille.uwo.ca>



Hi Brendan and all:  Well the upgrade libshout didn't fix the
problem.  Here are more logs from ices and icecast.  They certainly
don't tell me much.

DEBUG: Builtin playlist handler serving: /var/music/Mercyful_Fate/Time/Mercyful Fate - 09 - Mirror.mp3
DEBUG: ID3v1 song: Mirror
DEBUG: ID3v1 artist: Mercyful Fate
DEBUG: Layer: III		Version: MPEG-1	Frequency: 44100
DEBUG: Bitrate: 128 kbit/s	Padding: 0	Mode: j-stereo
DEBUG: Ext: 0	Mode_Ext: 2	Copyright: 1	Original: 1
DEBUG: Error Protection: 0	Emphasis: 0	Stereo: 2
Playing /var/music/Mercyful_Fate/Time/Mercyful Fate - 09 - Mirror.mp3
DEBUG: Updated metadata on egoplay56 to: Mercyful Fate - Mirror
DEBUG: Updated metadata on egoplay24 to: Mercyful Fate - Mirror
DEBUG: Updated metadata on egoplay to: Mercyful Fate - Mirror
Warning: Encountered error while transfering /var/music/Mercyful_Fate/Time/Mercyful Fate - 09 - Mirror.mp3. [Libshout reported send error: Libshout socket error.]
Libshout communication problem, trying to reconnect to server
Failed reconnecting to server 127.0.0.1, error: 3
Ices Exiting...

icecast.log:

[29/Jun/2001:12:11:57] [1:Calendar Thread] directory_touch_xa([yp.mp3.de:80]) completed...server id = 69
[29/Jun/2001:12:11:57] [1:Calendar Thread] directory_touch([yp.shoutcast.com]) completed...
[29/Jun/2001:12:12:53] [1:Calendar Thread] directory_touch_xa([yp.icecast.org:80]) completed...server id = 69
[29/Jun/2001:12:12:57] [1:Calendar Thread] directory_touch_xa([yp.mp3.de:80]) completed...server id = 69
[29/Jun/2001:12:13:07] [1:Calendar Thread] directory_touch([yp.shoutcast.com]) completed...
[29/Jun/2001:12:13:47] [1:Calendar Thread] WARNING: Connect to yp.icecast.org failed.
[29/Jun/2001:12:13:50] [1:Calendar Thread] directory_touch_xa([yp.mp3.de:80]) completed...server id = 69
[29/Jun/2001:12:13:51] [1:Calendar Thread] directory_touch([yp.shoutcast.com]) completed...
[29/Jun/2001:12:14:30] [1299:Source Thread] Kicking client 1289 [boss.braille.uwo.ca] [Too many errors (client not receiving data fast enough)] [listener], connected for 3 hours, 12 minutes and 58 seconds, 184460820 bytes transfered. 0 clients connected
[29/Jun/2001:12:14:47] [1:Calendar Thread] WARNING: Connect to yp.icecast.org failed.
[29/Jun/2001:12:14:48] [1:Calendar Thread] directory_touch_xa([yp.mp3.de:80]) completed...server id = 69
[29/Jun/2001:12:14:49] [1:Calendar Thread] directory_touch([yp.shoutcast.com]) completed...
[29/Jun/2001:12:15:47] [1:Calendar Thread] WARNING: Connect to yp.icecast.org failed.
[29/Jun/2001:12:15:48] [1:Calendar Thread] directory_touch_xa([yp.mp3.de:80]) completed...server id = 69
[29/Jun/2001:12:15:48] [1:Calendar Thread] directory_touch([yp.shoutcast.com]) completed...
[29/Jun/2001:12:16:33] [1438:Connection Handler] Kicking source 1434 [localhost] [Invalid Mount Point] [encoder], connected for 0 seconds, 0 bytes transfered. 2 sources connected
[29/Jun/2001:12:16:33] [1438:Connection Handler] Kicking all 0 clients for source 1434

I can't help wondering if the warnings about not being able to connect
with yp.icecast.org have something to do with it.  The client it
kicked sits all of 8 feet from the machine containing the server.  Now
admittedly it goes out to the router interface card and back but that
still isn't far.  The client machine is a pentium-200 not greate but
not bad either.  Shouldn't have anything to do with ices crapping out
either.  I'm not sure what other information might be relevant.  Any
questions? hints? opinions!

  Kirk

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From brendan at icecast.org  Fri Jun 29 16:58:38 2001
From: brendan at icecast.org (Brendan Cully)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 12:58:38 -0400
Subject: [icecast] no go, same ices/icecast errors
In-Reply-To: <E15G1Z2-00052m-00@speech.braille.uwo.ca>
Message-ID: <20010629125838.C427@xanadu.kublai.com>



On Friday, 29 June 2001 at 12:56, Kirk Reiser wrote:
> Hi Brendan and all:  Well the upgrade libshout didn't fix the
> problem.  Here are more logs from ices and icecast.  They certainly
> don't tell me much.

I've just committed some stuff to the ices tree which should help it
recover better from network errors. This works around the problem, I
don't know what's causing the shout errors though. I'll see about
adding some better debugging info to libshout next.

In the meantime you are encouraged to get the latest ices CVS.

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From harvey at buskers.org  Fri Jun 29 17:10:46 2001
From: harvey at buskers.org (harvey smith)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 13:10:46 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [icecast] no go, same ices/icecast errors
In-Reply-To: <E15G1Z2-00052m-00@speech.braille.uwo.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0106291306390.934-100000@tunes.norfolk.street>



On Fri, 29 Jun 2001, Kirk Reiser wrote:

> Hi Brendan and all:  Well the upgrade libshout didn't fix the
> problem.  Here are more logs from ices and icecast.  They certainly
> don't tell me much.

hmmm, as I mentioned in earlier post I have the same problem, except
only about once a week or so. Simular log file entries complete with
the 'WARNING: Connect to yp.icecast.org failed' line. This happens
when my route to icecast is down (not very often).

Have you tried remarking yp.icecast.org out of the icecast.conf
file?

Harvey

> [ ... ]
> 
> I can't help wondering if the warnings about not being able to connect
> with yp.icecast.org have something to do with it.  The client it
> kicked sits all of 8 feet from the machine containing the server.  Now
> admittedly it goes out to the router interface card and back but that
> still isn't far.  The client machine is a pentium-200 not greate but
> not bad either.  Shouldn't have anything to do with ices crapping out
> either.  I'm not sure what other information might be relevant.  Any
> questions? hints? opinions!
> 
>   Kirk

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From brendan at icecast.org  Fri Jun 29 17:58:47 2001
From: brendan at icecast.org (Brendan Cully)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 13:58:47 -0400
Subject: [icecast] IceS 0.2 released
Message-ID: <20010629135847.D427@xanadu.kublai.com>



Hi,

Since I received no negative feedback about the ices CVS tree... :)

(No Alex, I'm not complaining. Thanks for writing ices!)

IceS 0.2 has been released. This is the first release of the
development branch of ices. It contains a number of new features
including support for multiple streams, but is not yet recommended for
production systems. Please download it and check it out, and let me
know of any problems you may have building or using it.

As usual you may find it at http://www.icecast.org/download.html

> From the changelog:

- 0.2           2001-06-29
        - This is a development release. It is not guaranteed to be as stable
          as 0.1.
        - Multiple streams are supported. Add multiple stream sections to
          ices.conf or use multiple -m options on the command line. See the
          man page for details.
        - Oh yeah, there's a man page.
        - ices can decode ogg vorbis files and reencode them as MP3
        - New ices_get_metadata function added for playlist scripts.

-Brendan

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From kirk at braille.uwo.ca  Fri Jun 29 20:30:25 2001
From: kirk at braille.uwo.ca (Kirk Reiser)
Date: 29 Jun 2001 16:30:25 -0400
Subject: [icecast] no go, same ices/icecast errors
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0106291306390.934-100000@tunes.norfolk.street>
Message-ID: <x7g0cj81we.fsf@speech.braille.uwo.ca>



I haven't tried commenting out the yp.icecast.org entry but if the
problem persists that's another option.

I am trying Brendans latest changes currently.  We'll see what
happens.  BTW, thanx Brendan for the quick response and help.

  Kirk


-- 

Kirk Reiser				The Computer Braille Facility
e-mail: kirk at braille.uwo.ca		University of Western Ontario
phone: (519) 661-3061

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From gshang at uq.net.au  Sat Jun 30 14:36:15 2001
From: gshang at uq.net.au (Geoff Shang)
Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 00:36:15 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [icecast] xiph.org on Linuxfund
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.32.0107010031370.21016-100000@data.home>



Hi:

OK, all those who think icecast and vorbis etc are a cool thing, if you've
not yet gone up to linuxfund.org to vote for xiph.org, then today is the
last day that you can do so.  Xiph is leading by a decent margin but we
want to be sure that they get the money, right?  So lets give all the
available pesos to this project so that they can get the money.

Geoff.

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From matthew at psychohorse.com  Sat Jun 30 18:58:26 2001
From: matthew at psychohorse.com (StarTux)
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 11:58:26 -0700
Subject: [icecast] Re: [vorbis] xiph.org on Linuxfund
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.32.0107010031370.21016-100000@data.home>
Message-ID: <3B3E2152.4060603@psychohorse.com>



Geoff Shang wrote:

>Hi:
>
>OK, all those who think icecast and vorbis etc are a cool thing, if you've
>not yet gone up to linuxfund.org to vote for xiph.org, then today is the
>last day that you can do so.  Xiph is leading by a decent margin but we
>want to be sure that they get the money, right?  So lets give all the
>available pesos to this project so that they can get the money.
>
>Geoff.
>
><snip>
>

Just one more person needs to put 710 (my math maybe bad, sorry) down 
and they break the 100000 Mark!

Matt

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From gshang at uq.net.au  Sat Jun 30 14:36:15 2001
From: gshang at uq.net.au (Geoff Shang)
Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 00:36:15 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [icecast] [vorbis] xiph.org on Linuxfund
Message-ID: <994175447.0000@hypermail.dummy>



Hi:

OK, all those who think icecast and vorbis etc are a cool thing, if you've
not yet gone up to linuxfund.org to vote for xiph.org, then today is the
last day that you can do so.  Xiph is leading by a decent margin but we
want to be sure that they get the money, right?  So lets give all the
available pesos to this project so that they can get the money.

Geoff.

--- >8 ----
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From Olaf at XCC.TMFWeb.NL  Sat Jun 30 16:38:40 2001
From: Olaf at XCC.TMFWeb.NL (Olaf van der Spek)
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 18:38:40 +0200
Subject: [icecast] Re: [vorbis] xiph.org on Linuxfund
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.32.0107010031370.21016-100000@data.home>
Message-ID: <003501c10183$1ea8b140$8001a8c0@tulip2>



Quote:
The Xiph.org projects include Ogg (which is the parent of Vorbis and Tarkin)
and and Icecast. Our current focus, is Ogg Vorbis 1.0 and related tools and
documentation, and Icecast 2.0 with Ogg Vorbis support. The Ogg Project The
Ogg Project seeks to define a generic bitstream format and multimedia codecs
that are unencumbered by intellectual property restriction and are
technologically superior to current proprietary alternatives.

It seems HTML formatting is missing from this description.
And in the first line "and and" is wrong.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Geoff Shang" <gshang at uq.net.au>
To: <vorbis at xiph.org>; <icecast at xiph.org>
Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2001 4:36 PM
Subject: [vorbis] xiph.org on Linuxfund

> Hi:
>
> OK, all those who think icecast and vorbis etc are a cool thing, if you've
> not yet gone up to linuxfund.org to vote for xiph.org, then today is the
> last day that you can do so.  Xiph is leading by a decent margin but we
> want to be sure that they get the money, right?  So lets give all the
> available pesos to this project so that they can get the money.
>
> Geoff.
>
>
>
> --- >8 ----
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> Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/
> To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request at xiph.org'
> containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body.  No subject is needed.
> Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
>

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From matthew at psychohorse.com  Sat Jun 30 18:58:26 2001
From: matthew at psychohorse.com (StarTux)
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 11:58:26 -0700
Subject: [icecast] Re: [vorbis] xiph.org on Linuxfund
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.32.0107010031370.21016-100000@data.home>
Message-ID: <994175890.0000@hypermail.dummy>



Geoff Shang wrote:

>Hi:
>
>OK, all those who think icecast and vorbis etc are a cool thing, if you've
>not yet gone up to linuxfund.org to vote for xiph.org, then today is the
>last day that you can do so.  Xiph is leading by a decent margin but we
>want to be sure that they get the money, right?  So lets give all the
>available pesos to this project so that they can get the money.
>
>Geoff.
>
><snip>
>

Just one more person needs to put 710 (my math maybe bad, sorry) down 
and they break the 100000 Mark!

Matt

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