[Icecast-dev] Streaming AAC with libshout?

[Thomas Rücker]

Hi,

On 25 June 2013 22:56, Romain Beauxis <toots at rastageeks.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> 2013/6/25 "Thomas B. Rücker" <thomas at ruecker.fi>:
>> On 06/24/2013 06:27 PM, Thomas Rücker wrote:
>>> Just going to drop my 0,02€ here too.
>>>
>>> On 24 June 2013 16:47, Daniel James <daniel.james at sourcefabric.org> wrote:
>>>> Hi Greg,
>>>>
>>>>> The open source AAC/HE-AAC encoders offer pretty poor audio quality.
>>>>> Sometimes you really do get what you pay for, and this is a perfect example.
>>>> An alternative explanation might be that open source developers were not
>>>> particularly motivated to work on improving AAC encoders, because of
>>>> difficulties experienced when trying to distribute patent-encumbered code.
>>> This is at least the explanation why the earlier sent patch by Paul is
>>> unlikely to get merged in mainline libshout, as helpful and valuable
>>> it might be for some people. We encourage open and patent-problem-free
>>> formats.
>>
>> My opinion remains unchanged on this topic, but to help defuse this
>> matter here is my diplomatic proposal of a possible way forward:
>>
>> Patches that directly, openly target problematic formats, codecs, etc.
>> will still be unlikely to be merged (not a categoric no, very well
>> justified exceptions may be made, e.g. to ensure backwards
>> compatibility, but certainly not a blanket approval).
>>
>> Generic patches supplied by the community that target the 'pass through'
>> legacy functionality of Icecast will be merged pending usual review. In
>> the causa at hand, think 'allow a mime-type to be passed to libshout'
>> this would also address codec extensions: 'audio/ogg; codecs=opus' and
>> be generally useful.
>>
>> We focus our development efforts on matters aligned with the Xiph
>> mission statement: "media technology that is open and free for anyone to
>> use". When it comes to legacy functionality we do our best not to break
>> things, but we expect and welcome the interested community to report
>> problems AND supply patches where necessary.
>>
>>
>> I would like to further elaborate why I think such a direction is
>> necessary. We are carried by many downstream projects, including Debian,
>> Ubuntu, Fedora, etc. Some of which have quite strict policies when it
>> comes to copyrights, patents and various definitions of 'free'. We have
>> so far had no significant problems with regard to that, as opposed to
>> other projects that were, removed, patched or otherwise affected.
>> Also being agnostic of problematic technologies minimizes possible legal
>> attack surface against each and every contributor to our projects.
>
> Thanks for your feedback, Thomas. From my previous contribution, I
> gather that we have a different standpoint on the matter and I
> appreciate that your shared yours.
>
> Back 3 years ago, when I realized that our patch would not be
> accepted, I decided to go on and implement a new library that we now
> use instead of libshout. It has never been a big deal and I am glad
> that we are still able to benefit from icecast because that is a
> project that I support and respect. We also have always supported as
> many available xiph format as possible in liquidsoap and I wrote most
> of this support myself.
>
> That being said, I would like to point that there seems to be a little
> under-statement behind the "backward" compatibility that you
> mentioned. The so-called "backward compatibility" support may as well
> be renamed "mp3 format" support, because that is what we are talking
> about. And right now, judging from the stats on dir.xiph.org, there is
> stunning ratio of one vorbis stream per 50 mp3 stream...