[foms] WebM Manifest

Gregory Maxwell gmaxwell at gmail.com
Sat Mar 19 08:29:17 PDT 2011

On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 10:01 AM, Steve Lhomme <slhomme at matroska.org> wrote:
> Given Ogg is an interleaved format (and not well suited for video in
> general or streaming because of the bandwidth just wasted for the
> container), I don't see what guarantees that audio is always ahead of
> the video.

Gah, this has gone totally offtopic and I feel like a jerk for responding, but
if I don't correct this mis-informtion it will continue to spread.

Ogg's overhead, when not using a muxer optimized for packing vorbis or
low latency, is fairly comparable to MKV.

For example: A 4m:44.666s 24fps 377kbit/sec Theora video with 13253252
bytes of payload muxed with mkvmerge into mkv to 13310517 bytes and
13314629 bytes to ogg (with ffmpeg).

So, 0.43% vs  0.46% or  1.609 kbits/sec vs 1.724 kbit/sec.

Adding an index to the ogg with oggindex increases the size to
13315385 bytes (0.46%, 1.746 kbit/sec).  (The indexed ogg file is at

There are plenty of reasons that MKV is a great format and desirable
over Ogg, but overhead for streaming isn't really one of them.  I
don't doubt that the MKV overhead could be lower with tighter muxing,
but the overhead here is low in _absolute_ terms, not just relative

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