[xiph-commits] r9049 - in websites-plone/www: . about css images/logos/vorbis setup

atamido at motherfish-iii.xiph.org atamido at motherfish-iii.xiph.org
Tue Mar 8 20:33:13 PST 2005


Author: atamido
Date: 2005-03-08 20:33:11 -0800 (Tue, 08 Mar 2005)
New Revision: 9049

Added:
   websites-plone/www/about/
   websites-plone/www/about/index.shtml
   websites-plone/www/css/vorbisdotcom-screen.css
   websites-plone/www/images/logos/vorbis/vorbisdotcom.png
   websites-plone/www/setup/
   websites-plone/www/setup/index.shtml
Modified:
   websites-plone/www/css/xiph-screen.css
Log:
Adding more pages.

Added: websites-plone/www/about/index.shtml
===================================================================
--- websites-plone/www/about/index.shtml	2005-03-09 03:55:14 UTC (rev 9048)
+++ websites-plone/www/about/index.shtml	2005-03-09 04:33:11 UTC (rev 9049)
@@ -0,0 +1,389 @@
+<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.1//EN" 
+	"http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml11/DTD/xhtml11.dtd">
+<html>
+<head>
+<title>Xiph.org</title>
+<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"/>
+<script type="text/javascript"></script>
+<link href="/css/xiph-screen.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css"/>
+<style type="text/css">
+<!--
+.wiki_ {
+	margin-bottom: 1.4em;
+}
+
+.documentation_ {
+	margin-bottom: 1.4em;
+}
+-->
+</style>
+</head>
+<body>
+<div class="bodyborder">
+<div class="xiphbar">
+	<div>
+	<img src="/images/logos/xiph/xiphbar.png" alt="Xiph logo"/>
+	<ul>
+		<li class="xiph_"><a href="http://www.xiph.org/">Xiph.org</a></li>
+		<li class="vorbis_"><a href="http://www.vorbis.com/">Vorbis.com</a></li>
+		<li class="theora_"><a href="http://www.theora.org/">Theora.org</a></li>
+		<li class="icecast"><a href="http://www.icecast.org/">Icecast.org</a></li>
+		<li class="speex_"><a href="http://www.speex.org/">Speex.org</a></li>
+		<li class="flac_"><a href="http://www.flac.org/">FLAC</a></li>
+	</ul>
+	</div>
+</div>
+
+<div class="logos">
+	<img src="/images/logos/xiph/fish_xiph_org.png" alt="Fish Logo and Xiph.org"/>
+</div>
+
+
+<table class="contenttable">
+<tr>
+<td class="leftside">
+<div>
+	<ul>
+		<li class="about_"><a href="/">About</a></li>
+		<li class="press_"><a href="/">Press</a></li>
+		<li class="donate_"><a href="/">Donate</a></li>
+		<li class="contact_"><a href="/">Contact</a></li>
+		<li class="wiki_"><a href="http://wiki.xiph.org/index.php/Main_Page">Wiki</a></li>
+		<li class="downloads_"><a href="/">Downloads</a></li>
+		<li class="bugs_"><a href="http://trac.xiph.org/cgi-bin/trac.cgi/">Bugs</a></li>
+		<li class="documentation_"><a href="/">Documentation</a></li>
+		<li class="resources_"><a href="/">Resources by Project</a></li>
+	</ul>
+</div>
+</td>
+<td rowspan="2"  class="content">
+<h1>About Xiph</h1>
+<h2>A little bit about us, what we do, and why you should care</h2>
+<p>A market-speak summary of the Xiph.Org Foundation might read something
+	like: "Xiph.Org is a collection of <a href="http://www.opensource.org">open source</a>, multimedia related
+	projects. The most aggressive Xiph.Org effort, the <a href="ogg/">Ogg project</a>, works to put the foundation standards of
+	Internet audio into the public domain, <em>where all Internet standards
+	belong</em>." ...and that last bit is where the passion comes in.</p>
+
+<p>Xiph.Org is about open source and the ideals for which free
+	software stands. Open source is not a fad any more than the Internet
+	is. It is a necessary force driving innovation and the Internet
+	forward while protecting the interests of individuals, artists,
+	developers and consumers.</p>
+
+<p>We're about bringing open source and open source ideals to
+	multimedia...and media on the Internet needs us.</p>
+
+<h2>"Why do I need open source? I'm not a hacker."</h2>
+
+<p>Closed source software is not evil, nor is it necessarily inferior in
+	quality to open source.  What is certain, however, is that closed
+	source and closed protocols do not serve the public interest; they
+	exist by definition to serve the bottom line of a corporation.  The
+	foundations of the Internet today are built of a long, hardy history
+	of open development, free exchange of ideas and unprecedented levels
+	of intellectual cooperation.  These foundations continue to weather
+	the storm caused by the corporate world's rush to cash in.
+</p>
+<p>It is not a coincidence that Microsoft was blind to the phenomenon of
+	the Internet for so long. The burgeoning Internet was against their
+	very way of thinking; a Microsoft Internet (tm) would have been
+	profit-directed, designed by the same people who considered 'on-demand
+	TV' the great innovation of the future. Microsoft Internet, if
+	profitable, would have been followed by the release of IBM's
+	marginally compatible OS/Internet, Borland's TurboInternet, ad
+	absurdum.  The Net, as designed by warring corporate entities, would
+	be a battleground of incompatible and expensive 'standards' had it
+	actually survived at all.</p>
+
+<p>The Internet exists today and continues to move forward
+	<em>despite</em>, not because of, corporate self-interest; critical
+	mass passed the point of no return long before Microsoft and Netscape
+	tried to salt the earth of their rivals. The great advances in
+	computer engineering and science came from research labs and
+	universities, freely shared with the rest of the world.  You would not
+	be reading this at your PC, workstation or iMac today if Microsoft
+	held a patent on TCP/IP. </p>
+
+<p>The point is not that companies that try to make money on the new
+	popularity of the net are in some way inherently immoral or greedy.
+	Rather, the point is that companies must not be allowed to use the
+	infrastructure we all depend upon as a weapon against their rivals to
+	the detriment of all others.  The Internet is a common resource and as
+	with other cooperatively shared resources, the "Tragedy of the
+	Commons" looms large.  Competitive behavior dictates that eventually a
+	company will act on their own interests to the detriment of all others
+	<em>unless a mechanism exists to prevent it</em>.</p>
+
+<p>Commodity standards and software must be free because open source is
+	that controlling mechanism. We're the only mechanism we've got.</p>
+
+<h2 id='fraunhofer' style='margin-bottom: 0;'>"Why does multimedia specifically need open source?"</h2>
+<h3 style='margin-top: 0;'>Example: An 'open' standard closes</h3>
+
+<p>In September of 1998, the world of Internet media took an unexpected
+(but long dreaded) turn when Fraunhofer IIS sent a "letter of
+infringement" to several small commercial and open source MPEG audio
+layer 3 development projects.</p>
+
+<blockquote>
+	<p>In the letter, [Fraunhofer claims] that due to patents
+		they hold related to MP3, they are entitled to
+		royalties for any commercial players, all encoders
+		(whether sold or <strong>given away</strong>), and
+		also works of art sold in MP3 format.</p>
+
+	<p>The letter of infringement had an immediate effect on
+		the free encoder programs with many being removed from
+		their official web site. Affected encoders include
+		Plugger, CDEX, soloH, 8Hz, Blade, Canna, and
+		others. [...] Fraunhofer is demanding a royalty
+		payment beginning at $25 per encoder. Additionally, a
+		1% or .01 per file royalty is also put forth as being
+		required.</p>
+	<p>&mdash;mp3.com article by Michael Robertson</p>
+	<!-- formerly http://www.mp3.com/news/095.html -->
+</blockquote>
+
+<p>The projects affected had based their work on code long freely
+	available in the ISO MPEG audio standard.  The debate about whether or
+	not Fraunhofer was within their rights or not is beside the point;
+	this is an illustration of the amount of control commercial entities
+	will attempt to exert over commodity standards; this meddling is
+	detrimental to open efforts and deadly to business (except for members
+	of the MPEG consortium that is).  Keep in mind that MPEG is considered
+	among the <em>most</em> open multimedia standards (at least until the
+	800-lb. gorilla members of MPEG manage to sue the smaller encoder
+	efforts out of existence); there are few or no cutting-edge open
+	standards for streamed audio or video on the Internet today.  Closed
+	competition has just made matters worse; now there are several
+	dominant and entirely incompatible closed 'standards'.</p>
+
+<p>Our purpose is to open the field up a bit. Unfortunately we're not
+	fighting on this front alone.  Music and media on the net today also
+	face corporate domination of the <em>content itself </em>...</p>
+
+<h2>Music isn't an <em>art</em>, it's an <em>industry</em>.</h2>
+
+<p>Internet media issues don't apply solely to source code or information
+	format. Controlling the music itself is a burning issue for the music
+	industry.</p>
+
+<p>&mdash;and <em>industry</em> is the key word here.  Music is no longer an
+	expression of the soul or the work of an artist; it's a 'product' that
+	is manufactured, packaged, catalogued, distributed, managed,
+	regulated, and above all <em>sold</em>.  Music is just another vehicle for
+	maximizing profits. The RIAA, mainly a front for the recording
+	industry that supports the status quo, trumpets loudly that the
+	Internet is the greatest threat to artists that the world has ever
+	known... at the same time that the RIAA is making a desperate grab to
+	control this new distribution infrastructure.  The great irony is that
+	the Internet might indeed be an artist's worst nightmare-- if the RIAA
+	<em>succeeds</em>:</p>
+
+<blockquote>
+	<p>...corporate mergers are squeezing hundreds of
+		musicians out of the business without even giving
+		them the rights to their recordings, and executives
+		of major record labels are meeting behind closed
+		doors to develop a way to police and control the
+		distribution of music on the Internet.<br/>
+		[...]<br/>
+		Putting control of the Internet in the hands of the
+		corporations means that a utopian musical vision may
+		be dying. ...the chances of a dystopian world are
+		increasing, one in which record companies have even
+		greater control over music distribution</p>
+
+	<p>--the New York Times, Monday, May 17, 1999, article by Neil Strauss</p>
+</blockquote>
+
+<p>One major push in the RIAA effort to control the music distribution
+	infrastructure of the Internet is to legislate mandatory 'digital
+	watermarks' for playback.  Players that do not look for these
+	'watermarks' or play the music anyway will be illegal.  Make an
+	educated guess as to who will control the watermarks.</p> 
+
+<blockquote>
+	<p>the record industry has a plan to force
+	hardware and software companies to exclusively
+	adopt its Secure Digital Music Initiative as
+	the standard for delivering music online.
+	...SDMI backers want manufacturers to build a
+	time-bomb trigger into their products that,
+	when activated at a later date, would prevent
+	users from downloading or playing
+	non-SDMI-compliant music. The hardware would
+	initially support MP3 and other compressed
+	file formats, but a signal from the RIAA would
+	activate the blocking trigger.</p>
+
+	<p>--<a href="http://www.wired.com/news/news/technology/story/19682.html">Wired News article by Christopher Jones</a></p>
+</blockquote>
+
+<h2>a history lesson</h2>
+
+<p>The current position and function of the music industry is an
+	invented one.  Approximately one lifetime ago, recordings were not
+	technologically possible.  With the advent of recorded sound,
+	enterprising businessmen (Thomas Edison, a worthy predecessor of Bill
+	Gates, and Columbia Music, just as tough and nasty) found that
+	prepackaged recordings could be turned out in endless, identical
+	quantity for very little cost and sold.  </p>
+
+<p>This wasn't an entirely new idea; an example of a preceding 'packaged
+	performance' technology is the player piano roll.  It is interesting
+	to note, however, that these rolls were held by the courts to be
+	<em>uncopyrightable</em>; the music itself was protected, but the
+	'performance' was not. The music industry originally lobbied the
+	courts and Congress to keep these formats copyright-free so that it
+	would not owe artists any royalties; in 1908, the Supreme Court ruled
+	that phonograph records and player piano rolls did not fall under
+	copyright.</p>
+
+<p>It is important to note that selling recordings was a tenable business
+	plan only because the average person could not produce a recording.
+	If the phonograph record were cheaply reproducible in that day, the
+	prepackaged music industry would never have existed as it would have
+	been impossible from the very beginning to prevent people from making
+	copies which were, at the time, entirely legal.</p>
+
+<p>Congress changed the copyright law in 1909 to explicitly grant
+	composers royalties on recordings sold. At the time, the music
+	industry protested the decision bitterly; eventually it settled for
+	requiring artists to sign over copyright on all work as a standard
+	element of a recording contract.</p>
+
+<p>The copyright protects the record label, not the artist.</p>
+
+<p>(<a href="http://www.news.com.com/SpecialFeatures/0,5,34963,00.html">an article on the subject from CNET</a>)</p>
+
+<h2>Fast forward to the 1970s</h2>
+
+<p>The undoing of the distribution profit juggernaut began with the
+	compact cassette tape, a development greeted by as much wailing and
+	gnashing of teeth within the walls of Music Inc. as MP3 is causing
+	today.  Although the copy wasn't as good as the original, it was cheap
+	and easy to make.  Copying commercial music was once only the domain
+	of organized crime; now any individual could make a copy trivially.
+	The industry tried to outlaw the compact cassette, then settled for
+	taxing it and legislating against copying.</p>
+
+<p>Digital audio tape (DAT) caused the next uproar; a perfect copy was
+	now possible.  The music industry players, forerunners to the RIAA,
+	sought to destroy this technology and mostly succeeded; DAT never
+	caught on at any sizable level.  It is interesting to note that
+	"small-time" artists depend heavily on DAT for production and
+	recording; this is practically the only music segment that ever bought
+	into DAT.  Clearly the RIAA didn't have their interests at heart.</p>
+
+<p>Computers, the Internet and especially MP3 have now made the copy
+	easier, cheaper and more convenient than the prepackaged content on
+	sale.</p>
+
+<p>That the copy costs nothing concerns intellectual property, a real
+	worry for artists.  That the <em>distribution</em> costs nothing is
+	what really motivates the anti-MP3/anti-Internet effort. Copyright,
+	once bitterly contested by the music industry, is now clung to as a
+	weapon to preserve the distribution chain.</p>
+
+<blockquote>
+	<p>Copyright law has always been more about protecting
+		the interests of publishers than those of creators.
+		The Internet in general, and MP3 in particular, have	
+		drastically reduced the costs (financial,
+		convenience, material, distribution) of creators
+		getting their material out to their audience, and
+		have *almost* made it trivial for audience members
+		to *directly* pay creators for access to their work.</p>
+
+	<p>The middlemen have become irrelevant.  The smart
+		ones are devising new business models --- O'Reilly
+		isn't going away because they are perceived as
+		genuinely adding value and lots of their customers
+		would buy their books even if they're available for
+		download.</p>
+
+	<p>I just paid $20 for Neal Stephenson's new book; he
+		probably got about $3 of my money, if that.  The
+		other $17 went to the distribution chain, of which
+		*maybe* $1 goes to people who actually contributed
+		to the book --- editors who actually edited,
+		proofreaders, etc.</p>
+
+	<p>Eventually, a favorite author will release a new
+		novel and I will pay $5, of which the majority will
+		go to the author and all but a few pennies to other
+		real contributors, for access to it with rights to
+		print one copy.</p>
+
+	<p>The middlemen are merely fighting a rearguard action
+		against the tide of history; a delaying action that
+		may alter *when* I will buy a book that way, but not
+		the ultimate reality.</p>  
+
+	<p>&mdash;Carl Alexander <a href="mailto:xela at mit.edu">&lt;xela at mit.edu&gt;</a></p>
+</blockquote>
+
+<p>The music industry finds itself in a position where the basic
+	assumption behind its original business model (the recording is too
+	expensive for a person to reproduce him or herself and the
+	distribution can be tightly controlled for maximal profit) is no
+	longer true.  The music industry feels extremely threatened.  It
+	should. This is a major evolutionary pressure.</p>
+
+<p>Evolutionary?  Of course; commercial music is faced with extinction
+	only as long as it refuses to adapt, as long as it refuses to loosen
+	its grip on the endless easy profits it believes it is entitled to.
+	The industry is not acting to protect artists or the artists'
+	interests (bards, musicians and storytellers thrived long before there
+	was an industry to 'protect' them), it is not acting to prevent
+	musicians from being 'driven out of business' (it impoverishes artists
+	itself); it is acting to preserve the status quo and its own
+	profit-inflated bulk.  It's quite possible for the music industry to
+	refashion itself, but rather than evolving and thriving in a new
+	niche, the Dinosaurs, staggering under their own smothering weight,
+	are trying to legislate the Mammals out of existence.</p>
+
+<h2>The double-whammy</h2> 
+
+<p>From one side, we see groups (Fraunhofer, IBM, Thomson, Progressive
+	Networks, Microsoft et al.) trying to control music technological
+	infrastructure (MPEG, TwinVQ, etc) to be used as weaponry against
+	their competitors. On the other front, we have the music industry
+	trying to squeeze all the cash they can out of the content to maintain
+	their enormous, recently obsolete bulk.  In case they don't succeed in
+	eliminating electronic music formats, they too are making a major bid
+	to control the infrastructure.</p> 
+
+
+<p>There are multi-trillion dollar interests represented in the above
+	clash.  Businesses that only have a few million dollars are entirely
+	outclassed.</p>  
+
+<p>As an individual, I expect I'm no longer on the map.</p>
+
+<p>Or am I? Ogg and other projects of Xiph.Org are my way of doing
+	something about the imbalance; a good programmer can still change the
+	world.  Big players may want to utterly dominate the Net, but they
+	don't yet.  If the rest of us are lucky, Xiph.Org, the Open Source
+	community and Ogg will help make that impossible.</p>
+
+<p>&mdash;Monty (<a href="mailto:monty at xiph.org">monty at xiph.org</a>)<br/>
+May 14, 1999</p>
+
+</td>
+</tr>
+<tr>
+<td class="copyright">
+<div>
+	<p>The Xiph Fish Logo is a <br/>trademark (&trade;) of Xiph.Org.</p>
+	<p>These pages<br/> &copy;&nbsp;1994&nbsp;-&nbsp;2005 Xiph.Org.  <br/>All rights reserved.</p>
+</div>
+</td>
+</tr>
+</table>
+
+</div>
+</body>
+</html>
\ No newline at end of file

Added: websites-plone/www/css/vorbisdotcom-screen.css
===================================================================
--- websites-plone/www/css/vorbisdotcom-screen.css	2005-03-09 03:55:14 UTC (rev 9048)
+++ websites-plone/www/css/vorbisdotcom-screen.css	2005-03-09 04:33:11 UTC (rev 9049)
@@ -0,0 +1,138 @@
+ at import url(xiphbar.css);
+
+body {
+	margin: 0;
+	border: 0;
+	padding: 0 0 1.5em 0;
+	font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
+	color: #333333;
+	background-color: #666666;
+}
+
+a {
+	color: #064C84;
+}
+
+.bodyborder {
+	margin: 0;
+	border: 0;
+	padding: 0 0 3em 0;
+	background-color: #FFFFFF;
+	height: 100%;
+}
+
+
+.logos {
+	padding: 72px 465px 0 0;
+	text-align: center;
+}
+
+.navbar ul {
+	color:#FF6600;
+	margin: 0;
+	border: 0;
+	padding: 0;
+	display: block;
+	text-align: center;
+	text-transform: uppercase;
+}
+
+.navbar li {
+	margin: 0;
+	border: 0;
+	padding: 0 10px 0 0;
+	display: inline;
+	list-style-type: circle;
+}
+
+.navbar li a {
+	color: #FFCC66;
+	text-decoration: none;
+	font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
+	font-size: .6em;
+}
+
+
+
+.contenttable {
+	margin-left: auto;
+	margin-right: auto;
+	border-collapse: collapse;
+	width: 50em;
+}
+
+.leftside {
+	margin: 0;
+	border: 0;
+	border-right: 1px solid #9FC0D7;
+	padding: 1em 1em 1em 1em;
+	min-height: 15em;
+	vertical-align: top;
+}
+
+.leftside ul {
+	margin: 0;
+	padding: 0;
+	width: 120px;
+}
+
+.leftside li {
+	text-align: right;
+	font-size: .7em;
+	line-height: 1.4;
+	list-style: none;
+}
+
+.leftside li a {
+	font-weight: bold;
+	color: #3366CC;
+	text-decoration: none;
+	line-height: 0;
+}
+
+.leftspacer {
+	height: 10em;
+}
+
+.copyright {
+	margin: 0;
+	border: 0;
+	border-right: 1px solid #9FC0D7;
+	padding: 1em;
+	min-height: 15em;
+	text-align: right;
+	font-size: .6em;
+	color: #999999;
+	vertical-align: bottom;
+}
+
+.content {
+	margin: 0;
+	padding: 1em 1em 0 1em;
+	vertical-align: top;
+}
+
+/* So that Gecko based browsers have the same starting paragraph position as IE */
+.content > :first-child {
+	margin-top: 0;
+}
+
+.content p {
+	font-size: .9em;
+	line-height: 1.5;
+}
+
+h1 {
+	font-size: 1.1em;
+	color: #FF9900;
+}
+
+h2 {
+	font-size: .9em;
+	color: #FF9900;
+}
+
+h3 {
+	font-size: .7em;
+	color: #FF9900;
+}

Modified: websites-plone/www/css/xiph-screen.css
===================================================================
--- websites-plone/www/css/xiph-screen.css	2005-03-09 03:55:14 UTC (rev 9048)
+++ websites-plone/www/css/xiph-screen.css	2005-03-09 04:33:11 UTC (rev 9049)
@@ -95,6 +95,11 @@
 	line-height: 1.5;
 }
 
+h1 {
+	font-size: 1.1em;
+	color: #FF9900;
+}
+
 h2 {
 	font-size: .9em;
 	color: #FF9900;

Added: websites-plone/www/images/logos/vorbis/vorbisdotcom.png
===================================================================
(Binary files differ)


Property changes on: websites-plone/www/images/logos/vorbis/vorbisdotcom.png
___________________________________________________________________
Name: svn:mime-type
   + application/octet-stream

Added: websites-plone/www/setup/index.shtml
===================================================================
--- websites-plone/www/setup/index.shtml	2005-03-09 03:55:14 UTC (rev 9048)
+++ websites-plone/www/setup/index.shtml	2005-03-09 04:33:11 UTC (rev 9049)
@@ -0,0 +1,52 @@
+<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.1//EN" 
+	"http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml11/DTD/xhtml11.dtd">
+<html>
+<head>
+<title>Xiph.org</title>
+<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"/>
+<script type="text/javascript"></script>
+<link href="/css/vorbisdotcom-screen.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css"/>
+<style type="text/css">
+<!--
+-->
+</style>
+</head>
+<body>
+<div class="bodyborder">
+<div class="xiphbar">
+	<div>
+	<img src="/images/logos/xiph/xiphbar.png" alt="Xiph logo"/>
+	<ul>
+		<li class="xiph_"><a href="http://www.xiph.org/">Xiph.org</a></li>
+		<li class="vorbis_"><a href="http://www.vorbis.com/">Vorbis.com</a></li>
+		<li class="theora_"><a href="http://www.theora.org/">Theora.org</a></li>
+		<li class="icecast"><a href="http://www.icecast.org/">Icecast.org</a></li>
+		<li class="speex_"><a href="http://www.speex.org/">Speex.org</a></li>
+		<li class="flac_"><a href="http://www.flac.org/">FLAC</a></li>
+	</ul>
+	</div>
+</div>
+
+<div class="thepage">
+<div class="logos">
+	<img src="/images/logos/vorbis/vorbisdotcom.png" alt="Vorbis dot com logo"/>
+</div>
+
+<div class="navbar">
+	<ul>
+		<li class="setup_"><a href="/setup/">Get Set Up</a></li>
+		<li class="faq_"><a href="/">FAQ</a></li>
+		<li class="donate_"><a href="/">Donate</a></li>
+		<li class="music_"><a href="/">Music</a></li>
+		<li class="musicsites_"><a href="/">Music Sites</a></li>
+		<li class="downloads_"><a href="/">3rd Party Software</a></li>
+		<li class="developers_"><a href="http://trac.xiph.org/cgi-bin/trac.cgi/">For Developers</a></li>
+		<li class="contact_"><a href="/">Contact</a></li>
+	</ul>
+</div>
+
+
+</div>
+</div>
+</body>
+</html>
\ No newline at end of file



More information about the commits mailing list