[advocacy] Re: is this list active?

Arc Riley arc at xiph.org
Mon Mar 1 13:11:44 PST 2004

On Sun, Feb 29, 2004 at 04:10:05PM +0100, ChristianHJW wrote:
> Xiph should really rethink their implementation philosophy IMO. They 
> seem to think its enough to make some nice libs, and the world will 
> somehow care about creating apps from that. At least in this respect you 
> guys could learn from the matroska project ( sorry, couldnt resist ) ...

I disagree.  Making false statements about other formats to promote your 
own is a very short-sighted way to promote your project.  In the long 
run people learn that you've lied to them and your project becomes 
nothing more than another fad that comes and goes.

1) Ogg was designed for non-Vorbis audio, and video, and subtitles, etc.  
It's just that our goals go beyond the container format.  We're doing it 
right, from the start, with real patent-free codecs vs just using what 
everyone else is using.

2) Ogg, unlike Matroska, was actually designed for live streaming.  
>From what I've seen of the Matroska format it would be difficult, at 
best, to start decoding at any hypothetical part of the stream.

3) There are far more applications and tools which support Ogg than 
Matroska.  Lurking on our lists stating otherwise is only going to fool 
the most naive newbies.  Your project is in it's early alpha stages, or 
as you call it, "brand new".  You have, basically, nothing but hype.

>From what I've seen, the only advantage that Matroska has is a powerful 
subtitling format.  But guess what?  http://wiki.xiph.org/OggWrit

... and unlike Matroska, we have a full set of codecs and supporting 
tools already built.  Ogg is a real alternative to the world of 
proprietary royalty-based multimedia.

While I support your efforts to try something new, I find your methods 
for promoting it not only extremely distasteful but also self-defeating.  
If you want Matroska to survive you need to put more time into code and 
less into empty hype.  Deliver a real viable product first and stop 
making false claims about other projects.
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